On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 01:17:39 +0100, "Ada Ma"
wrote:

I saw your earlier post talking about growing chilies - you might have to
treat your chilies plants the way you treat your olive tree if you're
planning to grow them. Otherwise you'll have to seed a new batch every
year.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Do you have a glass house?

No, then I couldn't throw stones.


Penelope



--
"Maybe you'd like to ask the Wizard for a heart."
"ElissaAnn"

Bill wrote:

"Ignoramus2437" wrote in message
...

I am on a low carb high fat "paleo diet". In the front yard, we have a
concrete retaining wall that is a boundary of our land. Beyond the
retaining wall, 3 feet lower, is a public sidewalk. I rented a monster
tiller recently, and tilled a 24" strip of land immediately adjacent
to the retaining wall. (did a lot of other tilling to plant a lawn
elsewhere).

My desire is to plant some pretty, high fat, low carb, edible plants
that are not grains.


That's a foolish diet, you may lose weight for a while, but you may also die
from clogged arteries, cancer, stroke, heart attack, etc., before the next
year is up.

Low carb diet is nothing but a scam.

Bill


That explains it Bill! Thanks for the info.

I ate a low carb peanut butter sandwich last year and I immediately died
from clogged arteries, cancer, stroke, heart attack etc., just as you
said. Luckily I had my reincarnation insurance paid up, wasn't it?

You are a very useful guy to have around Bill. Your in-depth knowledge
and incredible insight into scams and human nutrition is something that
can only be admired.

I guess that avocados are poison eh Bill? What with the high fat, low
carbs. Maybe they are Saddam's secret weapons of mass destruction? They
are a sort of drab military green after all. Do you think that someone
should whisper into Bush's ear?

What do you suggest as a good diet Bill?

It is obvious that you personally are thriving amazingly well on BS, but
for those of us with a little more taste and discernment, coupled with
a lack of access to fresh bovine created food sources, what would be a
good thing?

Regards

David




--

To reply, please include the letters DNF anywhere in the subject line.

All other mail is automatically deleted.

Bill wrote:

"Ignoramus2437" wrote in message
...

I am on a low carb high fat "paleo diet". In the front yard, we have a
concrete retaining wall that is a boundary of our land. Beyond the
retaining wall, 3 feet lower, is a public sidewalk. I rented a monster
tiller recently, and tilled a 24" strip of land immediately adjacent
to the retaining wall. (did a lot of other tilling to plant a lawn
elsewhere).

My desire is to plant some pretty, high fat, low carb, edible plants
that are not grains.


That's a foolish diet, you may lose weight for a while, but you may also die
from clogged arteries, cancer, stroke, heart attack, etc., before the next
year is up.

Low carb diet is nothing but a scam.

Bill


That explains it Bill! Thanks for the info.

I ate a low carb peanut butter sandwich last year and I immediately died
from clogged arteries, cancer, stroke, heart attack etc., just as you
said. Luckily I had my reincarnation insurance paid up, wasn't it?

You are a very useful guy to have around Bill. Your in-depth knowledge
and incredible insight into scams and human nutrition is something that
can only be admired.

I guess that avocados are poison eh Bill? What with the high fat, low
carbs. Maybe they are Saddam's secret weapons of mass destruction? They
are a sort of drab military green after all. Do you think that someone
should whisper into Bush's ear?

What do you suggest as a good diet Bill?

It is obvious that you personally are thriving amazingly well on BS, but
for those of us with a little more taste and discernment, coupled with
a lack of access to fresh bovine created food sources, what would be a
good thing?

Regards

David




--

To reply, please include the letters DNF anywhere in the subject line.

All other mail is automatically deleted.

Hi Dave:

A fool you are! LOL

I have no problem with you believing in a high fat, low carb diet, I find
the planet overpopulated with fatso's anyway.
The nutrition committee of the American Heart Association has issued a
science advisory warning that high-protein diets have not been proven
effective and pose health risks. The report covered the Atkins, Zone,
Protein Power, Sugar Busters, and Stillman diets. The committee stated:

a.. Such diets may produce short-term weight loss through dehydration.
b.. Weight loss may also occur through caloric restriction resulting from
the fact that the diets are relatively unpalatable.
c.. The high fat content may be harmful to the cardiovascular system in
the long run.
d.. Any improvement in blood cholesterol levels and insulin management
would be due to weight loss, not the change in composition.
e.. A very high-protein diet is especially risky for patients with
diabetes because it can speed the progression of diabetic kidney disease
[8].
http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...opics/lcd.html

Bill

I ate a low carb peanut butter sandwich last year and I immediately died
from clogged arteries, cancer, stroke, heart attack etc., just as you
said. Luckily I had my reincarnation insurance paid up, wasn't it?

You are a very useful guy to have around Bill. Your in-depth knowledge and
incredible insight into scams and human nutrition is something that can
only be admired.

I guess that avocados are poison eh Bill? What with the high fat, low
carbs. Maybe they are Saddam's secret weapons of mass destruction? They
are a sort of drab military green after all. Do you think that someone
should whisper into Bush's ear?

What do you suggest as a good diet Bill?

It is obvious that you personally are thriving amazingly well on BS, but
for those of us with a little more taste and discernment, coupled with a
lack of access to fresh bovine created food sources, what would be a good
thing?

Regards

David

"marengo" wrote in message
...
Bill wrote:

| That's a foolish diet, you may lose weight for a while, but you may
| also die from clogged arteries, cancer, stroke, heart attack, etc.,
| before the next year is up.
|
| Low carb diet is nothing but a scam.
|
| Bill


Please cite the research to back up your claims.

http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...opics/lcd.html

There is plenty of research to back up my claim, problem is that fat people
won't believe it. Being fat is being lazy and being lazy means that you are
looking for a panacea.

You can lose weight with any diet, but to lose weight with high fat, low
carbs permanently, you have to die, and die you will, as Dr. Atkins did at
258 lbs with conditions arising from his cardiomyopathy, a lack of blood
flow.

The Bottom Line
Although short-range studies have found that low-carbohydrate diets can
produce weight loss, no study has demonstrated that such diets are safe or
effective for long-term use [11-14,22,23]. Atkins advocated his diet for
more than 30 years and stated that more than 60,000 patients treated at his
center had used his diet as their primary protocol. However, he never
published any study in which people who used his program were monitored over
a period of several years. The recent popularity of low-carbohydrate diets
has encouraged food companies to market low-carbohydrate foods for people
who want to "watch their carbs." Most of these foods are much higher in fat
than the foods they are designed to replace. I believe that "low-carb"
advertising is encouraging both dieters and nondieters to eat high-fat
foods, which is exactly the opposite of what medical and nutrition
authorities have been urging for decades. Following a low-carbohydrate diet
under medical supervision may make sense for some people, but a
population-wide increase in fat consumption is a recipe for disaster.

For Additional Information
a.. American Heart Association Statement on High Protein Diets
b.. atkinsfacts.org: Archive of documents about the Atkins diet

Oh that;s right, you can't -- because it's purely fiction!

LMAO!

The joke is on you fat boy! LOL

Bill
--
Peter
Before/Current Pix:
http://users.thelink.net/marengo/wei...htlosspix.html

"marengo" wrote in message
...
Bill wrote:

| That's a foolish diet, you may lose weight for a while, but you may
| also die from clogged arteries, cancer, stroke, heart attack, etc.,
| before the next year is up.
|
| Low carb diet is nothing but a scam.
|
| Bill


Please cite the research to back up your claims.

http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...opics/lcd.html

There is plenty of research to back up my claim, problem is that fat people
won't believe it. Being fat is being lazy and being lazy means that you are
looking for a panacea.

You can lose weight with any diet, but to lose weight with high fat, low
carbs permanently, you have to die, and die you will, as Dr. Atkins did at
258 lbs with conditions arising from his cardiomyopathy, a lack of blood
flow.

The Bottom Line
Although short-range studies have found that low-carbohydrate diets can
produce weight loss, no study has demonstrated that such diets are safe or
effective for long-term use [11-14,22,23]. Atkins advocated his diet for
more than 30 years and stated that more than 60,000 patients treated at his
center had used his diet as their primary protocol. However, he never
published any study in which people who used his program were monitored over
a period of several years. The recent popularity of low-carbohydrate diets
has encouraged food companies to market low-carbohydrate foods for people
who want to "watch their carbs." Most of these foods are much higher in fat
than the foods they are designed to replace. I believe that "low-carb"
advertising is encouraging both dieters and nondieters to eat high-fat
foods, which is exactly the opposite of what medical and nutrition
authorities have been urging for decades. Following a low-carbohydrate diet
under medical supervision may make sense for some people, but a
population-wide increase in fat consumption is a recipe for disaster.

For Additional Information
a.. American Heart Association Statement on High Protein Diets
b.. atkinsfacts.org: Archive of documents about the Atkins diet

Oh that;s right, you can't -- because it's purely fiction!

LMAO!

The joke is on you fat boy! LOL

Bill
--
Peter
Before/Current Pix:
http://users.thelink.net/marengo/wei...htlosspix.html

Bill said:

"Ignoramus2437" wrote in message
...
I am on a low carb high fat "paleo diet". In the front yard, we have a
concrete retaining wall that is a boundary of our land. Beyond the
retaining wall, 3 feet lower, is a public sidewalk. I rented a monster
tiller recently, and tilled a 24" strip of land immediately adjacent
to the retaining wall. (did a lot of other tilling to plant a lawn
elsewhere).

My desire is to plant some pretty, high fat, low carb, edible plants
that are not grains.

Nuts are things you could grow that contain good fats with omega-3s.
Purslane, a green, is also a source of omega-3s.
Sunflower oil has a pretty good fat profile (still more omega-6 than olive
oil, but less than corn and soybean oil).

Nuts might be the hardest thing to grow at home as you would need space
and would have to fight off the squirrels. Pick a type that suits your climate
(examples, hazelnuts in Oregon, pecans in Georgia, hickory nuts in Indiana).

That's a foolish diet, you may lose weight for a while, but you may also die
from clogged arteries, cancer, stroke, heart attack, etc., before the next
year is up.

The problem is the fat profile of modern domestic animals vs. the wild animals
our ancestors ate. Fat from domestic animals is high in saturated acids. Fat from
wild animals has plenty monosaturated fats and is high in omega-3 fatty acids.
The closest we could come these days to a real 'paleo diet' would be very lean
meats with plenty of olive oil and nuts plus plenty of fatty fish like salmon and
sardines. (Polyunsaturated vegetable fats are high in omega-6 fatty acids, no
real help.) The October issue of Discover touches on this in a feature article titled
'The Inuit Paradox.'

Side comment #1:
Quite alarmingly, this morning's newspaper front page warned of dioxin
contamination if wild game. So even wild game isn't what it used to be.

Side comment #2:
I have kind of a problem with the whole low-carb thing. Limiting high-glycemic
foods is sensible. Avoiding highly processed foods is sensible. Eating a lot
of meat from grain-fed, confined animals and the wrong sorts of fats isn't.
Someone close to me went on the original Atkins diet. He developed kidney
stones and ended up not so much later with inoperable cancer. Soured me
on the concept.

--
Pat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast)

Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(attributed to Don Marti)

Bill said:

"Ignoramus2437" wrote in message
...
I am on a low carb high fat "paleo diet". In the front yard, we have a
concrete retaining wall that is a boundary of our land. Beyond the
retaining wall, 3 feet lower, is a public sidewalk. I rented a monster
tiller recently, and tilled a 24" strip of land immediately adjacent
to the retaining wall. (did a lot of other tilling to plant a lawn
elsewhere).

My desire is to plant some pretty, high fat, low carb, edible plants
that are not grains.

Nuts are things you could grow that contain good fats with omega-3s.
Purslane, a green, is also a source of omega-3s.
Sunflower oil has a pretty good fat profile (still more omega-6 than olive
oil, but less than corn and soybean oil).

Nuts might be the hardest thing to grow at home as you would need space
and would have to fight off the squirrels. Pick a type that suits your climate
(examples, hazelnuts in Oregon, pecans in Georgia, hickory nuts in Indiana).

That's a foolish diet, you may lose weight for a while, but you may also die
from clogged arteries, cancer, stroke, heart attack, etc., before the next
year is up.

The problem is the fat profile of modern domestic animals vs. the wild animals
our ancestors ate. Fat from domestic animals is high in saturated acids. Fat from
wild animals has plenty monosaturated fats and is high in omega-3 fatty acids.
The closest we could come these days to a real 'paleo diet' would be very lean
meats with plenty of olive oil and nuts plus plenty of fatty fish like salmon and
sardines. (Polyunsaturated vegetable fats are high in omega-6 fatty acids, no
real help.) The October issue of Discover touches on this in a feature article titled
'The Inuit Paradox.'

Side comment #1:
Quite alarmingly, this morning's newspaper front page warned of dioxin
contamination if wild game. So even wild game isn't what it used to be.

Side comment #2:
I have kind of a problem with the whole low-carb thing. Limiting high-glycemic
foods is sensible. Avoiding highly processed foods is sensible. Eating a lot
of meat from grain-fed, confined animals and the wrong sorts of fats isn't.
Someone close to me went on the original Atkins diet. He developed kidney
stones and ended up not so much later with inoperable cancer. Soured me
on the concept.

--
Pat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast)

Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(attributed to Don Marti)

Bill, do you realize how hysterically funny your post is?!

Bill wrote:
|
| a.. Such diets may produce short-term weight loss through
| dehydration.

Geez, I've lost 55 pounds of water so far! LMAO!

b.. Weight loss may also occur through caloric
| restriction resulting from the fact that the diets are relatively
| unpalatable.

Yup, bacon,eggs, cheese, steaks, and vegetables are so much more unpalatable
that dry toast and rice cakes!
*wiping eyes* Stop! My sides hurt too much from laughing!

c.. The high fat content may be harmful to the
| cardiovascular system in the long run.

Heeheeheeheheehee. My total cholesterol dropped from 232 to 187, blood
pressure to 120/70, and tricglycerides from 635 to 217 on Atkins. Which is
supposed to hurt my CV systemmo the lower blood pressure, the low
ercholesterol or the lower triglycerides?? ROFLMAO!

| d.. Any improvement in blood cholesterol levels and insulin
| management would be due to weight loss, not the change in composition.

Um, isn't that the point?

| e.. A very high-protein diet is especially risky for patients with
| diabetes because it can speed the progression of diabetic kidney
| disease [8].

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Good one!
Let's see, I have to take no medication for my T2 diabetes because its';s
controlled completely with my low-carb diet. My blood glucose is
consistently normal. High blood sugars cause kidney disease. Guess you
lose this one too!

| http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...opics/lcd.html

You're the quack. Get educated.

Oh wait. My guess is that you're either PETA or PCRM, both with a vested
interest in not wanting people to eat meat. Bet that doesn't slant your
point of view, does it?

In a way I feel sorry for you, because you are so misinformed and stupid
enough to promote the tired old Lies that no one listens to any more. Maybe
you could switch careers and find some nice snake oil to sell?

|--
Peter
Before/Current Pix:
http://users.thelink.net/marengo/wei...htlosspix.html

Pat Kiewicz wrote:

|| Side comment #2:
|| I have kind of a problem with the whole low-carb thing. Limiting
|| high-glycemic
|| foods is sensible. Avoiding highly processed foods is sensible.
|| Eating a lot
|| of meat from grain-fed, confined animals and the wrong sorts of fats
|| isn't.
|| Someone close to me went on the original Atkins diet. He developed
|| kidney
|| stones and ended up not so much later with inoperable cancer.
|| Soured me
|| on the concept.

Side comment #1: Why do you assume that low-carbers eat a lot of meat?

Side comment #2: what makes you think that your friend got kidney stones and
ended up not o much later with inoperable cancer as a result of low carb?

Side comment #3: if you're soured on the concept, it because you're a
simpleton.

Pat Kiewicz wrote:

|| Side comment #2:
|| I have kind of a problem with the whole low-carb thing. Limiting
|| high-glycemic
|| foods is sensible. Avoiding highly processed foods is sensible.
|| Eating a lot
|| of meat from grain-fed, confined animals and the wrong sorts of fats
|| isn't.
|| Someone close to me went on the original Atkins diet. He developed
|| kidney
|| stones and ended up not so much later with inoperable cancer.
|| Soured me
|| on the concept.

Side comment #1: Why do you assume that low-carbers eat a lot of meat?

Side comment #2: what makes you think that your friend got kidney stones and
ended up not o much later with inoperable cancer as a result of low carb?

Side comment #3: if you're soured on the concept, it because you're a
simpleton.

"marengo" wrote in message
...
Bill, do you realize how hysterically funny your post is?!

Bill wrote:
|
| a.. Such diets may produce short-term weight loss through
| dehydration.

Geez, I've lost 55 pounds of water so far! LMAO!

b.. Weight loss may also occur through caloric
| restriction resulting from the fact that the diets are relatively
| unpalatable.

Yup, bacon,eggs, cheese, steaks, and vegetables are so much more
unpalatable

Yeah, but geez, how much bacon and eggs and steak can you eat? At least
throw some fish and chicken in there. I have red meat once a week and
that's plenty fine.

that dry toast and rice cakes!
*wiping eyes* Stop! My sides hurt too much from laughing!

Funny, but there are plenty of people from around the world that eat diets
high in carbohydrates that are not fat and have high life expectancies.
It's not the carbs killing you, it's the amount of calories you eat. Eat
less and you lose weight. Simple equation.

"Roger Zoul" wrote in message
...
Pat Kiewicz wrote:

|| Side comment #2:
|| I have kind of a problem with the whole low-carb thing. Limiting
|| high-glycemic
|| foods is sensible. Avoiding highly processed foods is sensible.
|| Eating a lot
|| of meat from grain-fed, confined animals and the wrong sorts of fats
|| isn't.
|| Someone close to me went on the original Atkins diet. He developed
|| kidney
|| stones and ended up not so much later with inoperable cancer.
|| Soured me
|| on the concept.

Side comment #1: Why do you assume that low-carbers eat a lot of meat?

Side comment #2: what makes you think that your friend got kidney stones
and
ended up not o much later with inoperable cancer as a result of low carb?

Side comment #3: if you're soured on the concept, it because you're a
simpleton.

Side comment to #3. Name calling won't help you change someone's view.

"Roger Zoul" wrote in message
...
Pat Kiewicz wrote:

|| Side comment #2:
|| I have kind of a problem with the whole low-carb thing. Limiting
|| high-glycemic
|| foods is sensible. Avoiding highly processed foods is sensible.
|| Eating a lot
|| of meat from grain-fed, confined animals and the wrong sorts of fats
|| isn't.
|| Someone close to me went on the original Atkins diet. He developed
|| kidney
|| stones and ended up not so much later with inoperable cancer.
|| Soured me
|| on the concept.

Side comment #1: Why do you assume that low-carbers eat a lot of meat?

Side comment #2: what makes you think that your friend got kidney stones
and
ended up not o much later with inoperable cancer as a result of low carb?

Side comment #3: if you're soured on the concept, it because you're a
simpleton.

Side comment to #3. Name calling won't help you change someone's view.

FDR wrote:
|| "Roger Zoul" wrote in message
|| ...
||| Pat Kiewicz wrote:
|||
||||| Side comment #2:
||||| I have kind of a problem with the whole low-carb thing. Limiting
||||| high-glycemic
||||| foods is sensible. Avoiding highly processed foods is sensible.
||||| Eating a lot
||||| of meat from grain-fed, confined animals and the wrong sorts of
||||| fats isn't.
||||| Someone close to me went on the original Atkins diet. He
||||| developed kidney
||||| stones and ended up not so much later with inoperable cancer.
||||| Soured me
||||| on the concept.
|||
||| Side comment #1: Why do you assume that low-carbers eat a lot of
||| meat?
|||
||| Side comment #2: what makes you think that your friend got kidney
||| stones and ended up not o much later with inoperable cancer as a
||| result of low carb?
|||
||| Side comment #3: if you're soured on the concept, it because you're
||| a simpleton.
||
|| Side comment to #3. Name calling won't help you change someone's
|| view.

Side comment to side comment to #3. I'm not interested in changing someone
view. That almost never happens on usenet.