heres my problem: I just planted a zucchini and cuccumber plant, both
of which have some holes in their leaves and are just down-right weak
looking. If the holes are due to bugs, please list some good poisens
that won't go into my plants and how to make my plants stronger.

how about putting some compost around them and then feeding some cow or
horse manure or aged chicken manure,,then put your mulch all around them and
let them spread over that..another thing u could put around them is worm
castings..u got a worm farm maybe...that stuff is great..or u can buy it
...vermicast and stand back and watch them go...
"BenGman" wrote in message
oups.com...
heres my problem: I just planted a zucchini and cuccumber plant, both
of which have some holes in their leaves and are just down-right weak
looking. If the holes are due to bugs, please list some good poisens
that won't go into my plants and how to make my plants stronger.

Another good thing to give your plants is water lots of it, and plenty of tomatoe plant feed, or if you can get it, sulphate of potash. It feeds the plants and will make them stronger and more resistant to pests. Check that it isn't slugs or snails eating your plants, the best time to get them is at night. spray with mild detergent and water if you think you need an insecticide. Chemical insecticides mean your plants will no longer be 'organic' and they are also bad for the environment and nature. Happy Gardening.

On Mon, 23 May 2005 22:30:56 +0000, pineapple
wrote:


BenGman Wrote:
heres my problem: I just planted a zucchini and cuccumber plant, both
of which have some holes in their leaves and are just down-right weak
looking. If the holes are due to bugs, please list some good poisens
that won't go into my plants and how to make my plants stronger.
Another good thing to give your plants is water lots of it, and
plenty of tomatoe plant feed, or if you can get it, sulphate of potash.
It feeds the plants and will make them stronger and more resistant to
pests. Check that it isn't slugs or snails eating your plants, the best
time to get them is at night. spray with mild detergent and water if you
think you need an insecticide. Chemical insecticides mean your plants
will no longer be 'organic' and they are also bad for the environment
and nature. Happy Gardening.

I'm having zucchini problems, too. When the zucchini fruit starts to
come out they are yellow, get to about an inch long and start to rot.
Sigh. Same problem last year. My soil is very much clay so I dig in
commercial top soil. Other than that I've never given them anything
special. I don't know if that's the problem or if this is a watering
problem.
Sue

I've found the following to be true about cucumbers and zucchini:

1) They don't like heat.
2) They like multiple waterings every day.
3) They like a rich soil which holds the water content pretty well
(might mean putting some small wood chips into the soil).
Composted soil seems to work very well. You probably can mix
your clay with soil and let it compost, maybe 2 parts soil to 1 part
clay. I'm not familiar with growing things in clay so you'll just have
to make a best guess at it unless someone else comes along and
suggests something else.
4) The hotter it is, the more water they need.
5) They grow well in 90% shade here in Florida where they only
get some direct sunshine in the morning (about 1 to 1.5 hours
worth at most, the rest of the shade comes from an avacado tree).

Hope that helps.

--
Jim Carlock
Please post replies to newsgroup.

"Sue" wrote:
On Mon, 23 May 2005 22:30:56 +0000, pineapple
wrote:


BenGman Wrote:
heres my problem: I just planted a zucchini and cuccumber plant, both
of which have some holes in their leaves and are just down-right weak
looking. If the holes are due to bugs, please list some good poisens
that won't go into my plants and how to make my plants stronger.
Another good thing to give your plants is water lots of it, and
plenty of tomatoe plant feed, or if you can get it, sulphate of potash.
It feeds the plants and will make them stronger and more resistant to
pests. Check that it isn't slugs or snails eating your plants, the best
time to get them is at night. spray with mild detergent and water if you
think you need an insecticide. Chemical insecticides mean your plants
will no longer be 'organic' and they are also bad for the environment
and nature. Happy Gardening.

I'm having zucchini problems, too. When the zucchini fruit starts to
come out they are yellow, get to about an inch long and start to rot.
Sigh. Same problem last year. My soil is very much clay so I dig in
commercial top soil. Other than that I've never given them anything
special. I don't know if that's the problem or if this is a watering
problem.
Sue

On Sun, 29 May 2005 20:08:34 GMT, "Jim Carlock"
wrote:

I've found the following to be true about cucumbers and zucchini:

1) They don't like heat.

They get a lot here. My 2nd year they did really well (as only
zucchini can - my friends were starting to lock the doors and draw the
curtains when I came up the walk toting a bag). Not much I can do
about the heat.

2) They like multiple waterings every day.

Really? I thought my problem might be *over* watering.

3) They like a rich soil which holds the water content pretty well
(might mean putting some small wood chips into the soil).
Composted soil seems to work very well. You probably can mix
your clay with soil and let it compost, maybe 2 parts soil to 1 part
clay. I'm not familiar with growing things in clay so you'll just have
to make a best guess at it unless someone else comes along and
suggests something else.

Clay is really awful stuff. One problem I have is that my gentleman
friend is a farmer (cotton and wheat). He just doesn't take my
gardening very seriously ("It's not like your livelihood depends on
this little garden.") and doesn't understand why I get so stressed
when things go wrong. I keep wanting to put more "good stuff" in and
he compares it to his farm and how little he (and all the farmers) has
to add. For one thing his soil is better out in the country.

4) The hotter it is, the more water they need.
5) They grow well in 90% shade here in Florida where they only
get some direct sunshine in the morning (about 1 to 1.5 hours
worth at most, the rest of the shade comes from an avacado tree).

I've never monitored how much sun they're getting. Certainly more
than 10%. I'm going to try the increase in the water - just went out
and turned it on.


Hope that helps.

Thanks for your advice!!
Sue

Well, let me tell you where I'm coming from. I'm thinking along the
lines that clay holds moisture a little better than sand. And I said
alot of water because the water drains through the sand here, so
the soil the cucumbers are growing in here dries up pretty quick.

So here are my thoughts. If you've got some that already planted dig
up the some of the clay around the top (the top soil), mix in some of
that composted cow manure dirt from Home Depot, chop up a
banana peel, mix in some dead dried up leaves if you have some,
mix in some coffee grounds and then apply that as the new top soil.

Some other things I'm doing that seems to work really well, is I dig
up some sand every so often, put it in a bucket, mix in some of that
composted dirt, put in coffee grounds from used coffee filters, mix
in some sphagnum peat every so often. It's still sandy but it's a heck
of alot better than plain old sand and the sphagnum peat seems to help
the water retention properties. Dead leaves and buds that falling off an
avocado tree are a real blessing, and perhaps you can do something
similar with whatever type of tree grows around your house. I use the
needles and blossoms that fall off jacaranda trees here.

"Sue" wrote:
They get a lot here. My 2nd year they did really well (as only
zucchini can - my friends were starting to lock the doors and draw
the curtains when I came up the walk toting a bag). Not much I
can do about the heat.

Not sure what you're meaning there. :-) They're afraid of you? g

The farmers have tractors that they use to plow the land and turn the
soil? :-) So if you're clay is really tough and thick, make sure you turn
it and mix in some dirt and dead leaves and composted banana peels
and coffee grounds. I think the clay will start to work itself into a
better soil as the sand here is doing for me. Turning the clay will help.

I take back my statements about the heat and sunlight. Silver-leaf white
fly and a hurricane did my cucumbers in last year. I guess I'm thinking
along the lines that the heat and sunlight stressed them, but maybe I'm
inproperly thinking so.

Hope that helps.

--
Jim Carlock
Please post replies to newsgroup.

On Sun, 29 May 2005 20:08:34 GMT, "Jim Carlock"
wrote:
I've found the following to be true about cucumbers and zucchini:
2) They like multiple waterings every day.

Really? I thought my problem might be *over* watering.

3) They like a rich soil which holds the water content pretty well
(might mean putting some small wood chips into the soil).
Composted soil seems to work very well. You probably can mix
your clay with soil and let it compost, maybe 2 parts soil to 1 part
clay. I'm not familiar with growing things in clay so you'll just have
to make a best guess at it unless someone else comes along and
suggests something else.

Clay is really awful stuff. One problem I have is that my gentleman
friend is a farmer (cotton and wheat). He just doesn't take my
gardening very seriously ("It's not like your livelihood depends on
this little garden.") and doesn't understand why I get so stressed
when things go wrong. I keep wanting to put more "good stuff" in and
he compares it to his farm and how little he (and all the farmers) has
to add. For one thing his soil is better out in the country.

4) The hotter it is, the more water they need.
5) They grow well in 90% shade here in Florida where they only
get some direct sunshine in the morning (about 1 to 1.5 hours
worth at most, the rest of the shade comes from an avacado tree).

I've never monitored how much sun they're getting. Certainly more
than 10%. I'm going to try the increase in the water - just went out
and turned it on.


Hope that helps.

Thanks for your advice!!
Sue

"Sue" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 23 May 2005 22:30:56 +0000, pineapple
wrote:


BenGman Wrote:
heres my problem: I just planted a zucchini and cuccumber plant, both
of which have some holes in their leaves and are just down-right weak
looking. If the holes are due to bugs, please list some good poisens
that won't go into my plants and how to make my plants stronger.
Another good thing to give your plants is water lots of it, and
plenty of tomatoe plant feed, or if you can get it, sulphate of potash.
It feeds the plants and will make them stronger and more resistant to
pests. Check that it isn't slugs or snails eating your plants, the best
time to get them is at night. spray with mild detergent and water if you
think you need an insecticide. Chemical insecticides mean your plants
will no longer be 'organic' and they are also bad for the environment
and nature. Happy Gardening.

I'm having zucchini problems, too. When the zucchini fruit starts to
come out they are yellow, get to about an inch long and start to rot.
Sigh. Same problem last year. My soil is very much clay so I dig in
commercial top soil. Other than that I've never given them anything
special. I don't know if that's the problem or if this is a watering
problem.
Sue


That sounds like blossom end rot.

On Tue, 31 May 2005 20:02:35 GMT, "LJ" wrote:


"Sue" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 23 May 2005 22:30:56 +0000, pineapple
wrote:


BenGman Wrote:
heres my problem: I just planted a zucchini and cuccumber plant, both
of which have some holes in their leaves and are just down-right weak
looking. If the holes are due to bugs, please list some good poisens
that won't go into my plants and how to make my plants stronger.
Another good thing to give your plants is water lots of it, and
plenty of tomatoe plant feed, or if you can get it, sulphate of potash.
It feeds the plants and will make them stronger and more resistant to
pests. Check that it isn't slugs or snails eating your plants, the best
time to get them is at night. spray with mild detergent and water if you
think you need an insecticide. Chemical insecticides mean your plants
will no longer be 'organic' and they are also bad for the environment
and nature. Happy Gardening.

I'm having zucchini problems, too. When the zucchini fruit starts to
come out they are yellow, get to about an inch long and start to rot.
Sigh. Same problem last year. My soil is very much clay so I dig in
commercial top soil. Other than that I've never given them anything
special. I don't know if that's the problem or if this is a watering
problem.
Sue


That sounds like blossom end rot.

Any idea what causes it and what I can do about it?
Sue

On Mon, 30 May 2005 02:24:15 GMT, "Jim Carlock"
wrote:

Well, let me tell you where I'm coming from. I'm thinking along the
lines that clay holds moisture a little better than sand. And I said
alot of water because the water drains through the sand here, so
the soil the cucumbers are growing in here dries up pretty quick.

So here are my thoughts. If you've got some that already planted dig
up the some of the clay around the top (the top soil), mix in some of
that composted cow manure dirt from Home Depot, chop up a
banana peel, mix in some dead dried up leaves if you have some,
mix in some coffee grounds and then apply that as the new top soil.

Some other things I'm doing that seems to work really well, is I dig
up some sand every so often, put it in a bucket, mix in some of that
composted dirt, put in coffee grounds from used coffee filters, mix
in some sphagnum peat every so often. It's still sandy but it's a heck
of alot better than plain old sand and the sphagnum peat seems to help
the water retention properties. Dead leaves and buds that falling off an
avocado tree are a real blessing, and perhaps you can do something
similar with whatever type of tree grows around your house. I use the
needles and blossoms that fall off jacaranda trees here.

Thanks for the suggestions. Does this mean I have to start drinking
coffee? Ewwww. I'm afraid I'm incredibly ignorant in these garden
matters so I ask: Do the coffee grounds and banana peels add
nutrients or are they just to make the soil more water retentive? Do
you have to worry about adding some type of tree detritus that might
add something bad to the soil?


"Sue" wrote:
They get a lot here. My 2nd year they did really well (as only
zucchini can - my friends were starting to lock the doors and draw
the curtains when I came up the walk toting a bag). Not much I
can do about the heat.

Not sure what you're meaning there. :-) They're afraid of you? g

Only when I get in a temper fit. A force to be reckoned with. G


The farmers have tractors that they use to plow the land and turn the
soil? :-) So if you're clay is really tough and thick, make sure you turn
it and mix in some dirt and dead leaves and composted banana peels
and coffee grounds. I think the clay will start to work itself into a
better soil as the sand here is doing for me. Turning the clay will help.

The only sand I can come up with here is expensive "play" sand.


I take back my statements about the heat and sunlight. Silver-leaf white
fly and a hurricane did my cucumbers in last year. I guess I'm thinking
along the lines that the heat and sunlight stressed them, but maybe I'm
inproperly thinking so.

Hope that helps.

Thanks. Now, who do I know who drinks coffee? Hmmmm.
Sue

I'm sorry I didn't add that info. You're best bet is to do a Google search
on blossom end rot and zucchini (otherwise you'll get mostly tomato info).
Lots of info. One place says "Blossom end rot is a telltale sign of poor
pollination, generally due to bad weather. Cold slows bees down and limits
the number of male flowers the squash plant can put out, hence no pollen on
the female flower, hence no viable fruit." And goes on to say that they have
enough other squash on the same plant that make it and that's been my
experience also. A few squishy ones next to the ones that are growing fine.

http://www.faultline.org/place/2002/09/zucchini.html

Several others say it's a calcium uptake problem. I always add some calcium
when I have the problem. For very fast results, you can buy some "blossom
end rot" something or other at the garden center or boil up some crushed egg
shells on your stove and pour the cooled liquid around the plants. I find it
usually works but it smells awful when it's cooking. Good luck!
LJ_in_BC

"Sue" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 31 May 2005 20:02:35 GMT, "LJ" wrote:


"Sue" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 23 May 2005 22:30:56 +0000, pineapple
wrote:


BenGman Wrote:
heres my problem: I just planted a zucchini and cuccumber plant,
both
of which have some holes in their leaves and are just down-right
weak
looking. If the holes are due to bugs, please list some good
poisens
that won't go into my plants and how to make my plants stronger.
Another good thing to give your plants is water lots of it, and
plenty of tomatoe plant feed, or if you can get it, sulphate of
potash.
It feeds the plants and will make them stronger and more resistant to
pests. Check that it isn't slugs or snails eating your plants, the
best
time to get them is at night. spray with mild detergent and water if
you
think you need an insecticide. Chemical insecticides mean your plants
will no longer be 'organic' and they are also bad for the environment
and nature. Happy Gardening.

I'm having zucchini problems, too. When the zucchini fruit starts to
come out they are yellow, get to about an inch long and start to rot.
Sigh. Same problem last year. My soil is very much clay so I dig in
commercial top soil. Other than that I've never given them anything
special. I don't know if that's the problem or if this is a watering
problem.
Sue


That sounds like blossom end rot.

Any idea what causes it and what I can do about it?
Sue

"Sue" wrote:
Does this mean I have to start drinking coffee? Ewwww.

Oh, I guess you can use orange peels and unused green stalks and
tea. I've been mixing in some watermelon rinds and such lately. A
cheap blender tends to help alot. I've had pretty good luck doing
this and mixing it into a bucket of sand. It was almost pure sand last
year and now I've got some nicer soil in various areas now.

Do the coffee grounds and banana peels add nutrients or are they
just to make the soil more water retentive?

Coffee grounds add magnesium and some other things, I think
magnesium is the big bonus from coffee grounds. Banana peels
I've heard add nitrogen and potassium. I've always known that
bananas were a high source of potassium but somewhere I read
that it's a high source of nitrogen as well... browse down through
the list of things at the following link... I'm not sure how much
potassium the peel contains... but there's some good stuffs in it...

http://www.mastercomposter.com/ref/orgmat2.html

Do you have to worry about adding some type of tree detritus
that might add something bad to the soil?

:-) The way I think of it... the trees were here doing what they do
before I ever came along, before man ever came along. It's the
way it's been for thousands of years, probably hundreds of
thousands of years. I had to look up "tree detritus". :-) I've noticed
that avocado detritus (from the buds and dead leaves, all the leaves
fall off the tree) adds something. It helps. There might be some
specific plants or tree detritus to not use... but you'll have to do a
search through Google to figure that out. Just type in the name of
the tree or plant and add the word "detritus" or "compost". I tend
to try to look at more than one link to get an idea about what's up.
You'll end up browsing through some garbage, but it'll at least give
you an idea of what's up.

The only sand I can come up with here is expensive "play" sand.

I wasn't suggesting sand for you. :-) I tried to state that when I water,
the "sand" is dry again in a about 90 minutes (unless it's got some other
things mixed in it to help retain the moisture).

Thanks. Now, who do I know who drinks coffee? Hmmmm.

Supposedly people go around and pick up coffee grounds from Star-
bucks coffee shops. I imagine you can go around to other places and
do something similar as well.

Hope that helps.

--
Jim Carlock
Please post replies to newsgroup.

Jim Carlock said:

"Sue" wrote:

Do the coffee grounds and banana peels add nutrients or are they
just to make the soil more water retentive?

Coffee grounds add magnesium and some other things, I think
magnesium is the big bonus from coffee grounds.

Coffee grounds add nitrogen, potassium, and trace nutrients.
Despite their color they are a 'green' compost ingredient.

Worms seem to love coffee grounds.


--
Pat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast)

Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(attributed to Don Marti)

"Pat Kiewicz" wrote:
Coffee grounds add nitrogen, potassium, and trace nutrients.
Despite their color they are a 'green' compost ingredient.

Worms seem to love coffee grounds.

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/ar.../bz/bz03p.html

Thanks Pat. I've associated coffee with magnesium for some reason...
and I'm reading that consumption causes a loss of magnesium in the
human body, and magnesium is required for calcium processing. Your
statements made me do a doubletake on what I mentioned.

Thanks for the comments about coffee being a "green" compost as
well.

--
Jim Carlock
Please post replies to newsgroup.