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Old 09-02-2003, 09:55 PM
Jim Carter
 
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Our last frost date is May 24. Does this mean that tomatoes may be planted at
this time even though the soil is still cool?I would, of course, have hardened
off the plants prior to this.
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Old 09-02-2003, 11:55 PM
Pat Meadows
 
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On Sun, 09 Feb 2003 15:45:07 -0500, Jim Carter
wrote:

Our last frost date is May 24. Does this mean that tomatoes may be planted at
this time even though the soil is still cool?I would, of course, have hardened
off the plants prior to this.


Basically, yes but.... you should still remain alert to
weather conditions and prepared to cover your plants if
necessary. Those 'last frost dates' are only averages.

Also, tomatoes tend to sit and sulk until the soil warms up.
The use of WalloWaters is supposed to help, also black mulch
is supposed to help.

http://www.wallowater.com

We used Wallowaters last year, and will again this year.
They're pretty sturdy and should last for several years.

Pat
--
Pat Meadows
CLICK DAILY TO FEED THE HUNGRY
United States: http://www.stopthehunger.com/
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Old 10-02-2003, 08:55 PM
Frogleg
 
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On Sun, 09 Feb 2003 15:45:07 -0500, Jim Carter
wrote:

Our last frost date is May 24. Does this mean that tomatoes may be planted at
this time even though the soil is still cool?I would, of course, have hardened
off the plants prior to this.


"Several weeks" after last frost date is recommended. A last frost of
May 24 is pretty cool (temperature-wise, not 'groovy'). I can never
remember whether it's Johnny's or Pinetree seeds that specializes in
short-season varieties.

Here's an interesting chart I came across:

http://www.naturalgardening.com/shop/frostdatesa-n.php3
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Old 10-02-2003, 10:55 PM
Lee Hall
 
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Jim Carter wrote in message . ..
Our last frost date is May 24. Does this mean that tomatoes may be planted at
this time even though the soil is still cool?I would, of course, have hardened
off the plants prior to this.
---
This message prepared using voice recognition technology. There
may be 'air roars'.


Soil temperature is definitely important. If the soil isn't warm
enough, the plants will just sit there. The stems will thicken a bit
but that's about it.
Most of the gardeners I know do hedge a bit on the last frost date.
Ours is May 1 and I generally plant the majority of my tomato plants
between April 15 and 20. I have had plants survive that were planted
as early as February 28 but aside from having a few ripe early
tomatoes, they don't seem to do any better than the ones planted in
April and they often play out earlier. If you do hedge on the last
frost date, I suggest having a plan ready in case of frost.
I prefer placing a few wire flags around each plant if frost is
predicted and place black garbage bags over the plants, making sure
the plastic doesn't touch the plant. Row covers are also effective.
My results over the last few years show that most plants will survive
if covered unless you have sustained temperatures below 25 degrees.

Lee Hall
Zone 6B - Tennessee


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Old 11-02-2003, 06:55 AM
Lee Hall
 
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(Frogleg) wrote in message ...
On Sun, 09 Feb 2003 15:45:07 -0500, Jim Carter
wrote:

Our last frost date is May 24. Does this mean that tomatoes may be planted at
this time even though the soil is still cool?I would, of course, have hardened
off the plants prior to this.


"Several weeks" after last frost date is recommended. A last frost of
May 24 is pretty cool (temperature-wise, not 'groovy'). I can never
remember whether it's Johnny's or Pinetree seeds that specializes in
short-season varieties.

Here's an interesting chart I came across:

http://www.naturalgardening.com/shop/frostdatesa-n.php3

Interesting, yes. Accurate, no. Don't I wish that the last frost
date was March 28 for Nashville, Tennessee. If you believe that you
could wind up with a bunch of frozen transplants. Sure, I have
planted that early but not without row covers, plastic bags and
wall-o-waters. They are off by slightly over a month. We get an
early April frost almost every year and May 1 is the accepted date
here according to the Dept. of Agriculture extension office.

Lee Hall
Zone 6B - 25 miles southeast of Nashville where I grew tomatoes for
many years
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Old 11-02-2003, 02:55 PM
Penny Morgan
 
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You must live in a cool climate with a frost date so late in the season.
Actually, I was born and lived half my life in upstate NY, Champlain,
Plattsburgh area and I think our frost date was the end of May. After
living here in the south for almost 8 years, I forget these things. Either
that, or I'm just getting old. Naaaaah!

Anyway, a frost date is given to let gardeners know that the average last
frost usually occurs about that time. It is not a guarantee. It can
fluctuate 2 weeks in either direction. I usually plant a few on the frost
date and then plant the rest about 2 weeks later to ensure I don't lose
everything if a frost occurs. It's also easier to cover 5 tomato plants
rather than 25 if frost occurs.

Yes, tomatoes will pretty much just sit in cold soil and not actively grow.
If you want to plant them in the cooler soil, try mulching or covering the
soil below the plants with a dark weedblock material. Black or red works
well. It must be something that allows water to penetrate (not a solid
plastic). The dark color will heat up during daylight hours from the sun
and retain the heat longer for the soil and roots to be happy. Some people
also buy water walls (not sure if that's technically the name or not). They
are made of some type of clear plastic that you fill up with water. You
then wrap this or stand it up around each tomato plant to insulate from the
cold. To me, they seem like too much work to get a couple of weeks jump on
the season.

Hope this helps answer your question.

Penny
Zone 7b - North Carolina
"Jim Carter" wrote in message
...
Our last frost date is May 24. Does this mean that tomatoes may be

planted at
this time even though the soil is still cool?I would, of course, have

hardened
off the plants prior to this.
---
This message prepared using voice recognition technology. There
may be 'air roars'.



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Old 11-02-2003, 05:55 PM
simy1
 
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Jim Carter wrote in message . ..
Our last frost date is May 24. Does this mean that tomatoes may be planted at
this time even though the soil is still cool?I would, of course, have hardened
off the plants prior to this.


Tomatoes are particularly sensitive to cold soil. The plants will
still be good, but you won't see tomatoes until september. What you
can do is lay plastic (clear or black) on the bed for a month before
transplanting.
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Old 11-02-2003, 09:36 PM
Pat Meadows
 
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On Tue, 11 Feb 2003 14:05:41 GMT, "Penny Morgan"
wrote:


Yes, tomatoes will pretty much just sit in cold soil and not actively grow.
If you want to plant them in the cooler soil, try mulching or covering the
soil below the plants with a dark weedblock material. Black or red works
well. It must be something that allows water to penetrate (not a solid
plastic). The dark color will heat up during daylight hours from the sun
and retain the heat longer for the soil and roots to be happy. Some people
also buy water walls (not sure if that's technically the name or not). They
are made of some type of clear plastic that you fill up with water. You
then wrap this or stand it up around each tomato plant to insulate from the
cold. To me, they seem like too much work to get a couple of weeks jump on
the season.


I've used them (last year) and I intend to use them again -
in fact, as long as I live here where the season is short
and nights are cool (northern PA in the Appalachian
Mountains). They're no particular work.

You plant your tomatoes as usual. You fill the WalloWater
with a hose and drop it over the tomato plant. Done.

Then later on when your tomatoes are large and have filled
the WalloWater, you lift it out and put it away for the next
year.

http://www.wallowater.com

The pictures on the website are really poor - they don't
show them very well at all.

These now come in red as well (from a different company, I
think) - the red is supposed in some way to help the plants
grow. I don't know if it does or not.

Pat
--
Pat Meadows
CLICK DAILY TO FEED THE HUNGRY
United States: http://www.stopthehunger.com/
International: http://www.thehungersite.com/


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Old 11-02-2003, 10:55 PM
len
 
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Default when to plant?


"Pat Meadows" wrote in message Here's an interesting chart I came
across:

http://www.naturalgardening.com/shop/frostdatesa-n.php3


CLICK DAILY TO FEED THE HUNGRY

United States: http://www.stopthehunger.com/
International: http://www.thehungersite.com/


Thats interesting, but it is somewhere between wishful thinking and fantasy.
It seems to give everybody an extra month growing season. I live in coastal
va., and I think carefully about setting plants out in the first week of
April. If, I lived NY city or New Jersey, I wouldn't. Len


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Old 11-02-2003, 10:55 PM
The Cook
 
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Pat Meadows wrote:

On Tue, 11 Feb 2003 14:05:41 GMT, "Penny Morgan"
wrote:


Yes, tomatoes will pretty much just sit in cold soil and not actively grow.
If you want to plant them in the cooler soil, try mulching or covering the
soil below the plants with a dark weedblock material. Black or red works
well. It must be something that allows water to penetrate (not a solid
plastic). The dark color will heat up during daylight hours from the sun
and retain the heat longer for the soil and roots to be happy. Some people
also buy water walls (not sure if that's technically the name or not). They
are made of some type of clear plastic that you fill up with water. You
then wrap this or stand it up around each tomato plant to insulate from the
cold. To me, they seem like too much work to get a couple of weeks jump on
the season.


I've used them (last year) and I intend to use them again -
in fact, as long as I live here where the season is short
and nights are cool (northern PA in the Appalachian
Mountains). They're no particular work.

You plant your tomatoes as usual. You fill the WalloWater
with a hose and drop it over the tomato plant. Done.

Then later on when your tomatoes are large and have filled
the WalloWater, you lift it out and put it away for the next
year.

http://www.wallowater.com

The pictures on the website are really poor - they don't
show them very well at all.

These now come in red as well (from a different company, I
think) - the red is supposed in some way to help the plants
grow. I don't know if it does or not.

Pat


4 or 5 plastic soda bottles filled with water also work. On "The
Victory Garden" I remember them putting plastic around the cages.
Opened them up during the day when the weather starts warming up.


--
Susan N.
---------------------------------------------
Click this site daily to help fund mammograms
for women who cannot afford them.

http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/
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Old 12-02-2003, 03:25 PM
Pat Meadows
 
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On Tue, 11 Feb 2003 21:56:26 GMT, "len"
wrote:


"Pat Meadows" wrote in message Here's an interesting chart I came
across:

http://www.naturalgardening.com/shop/frostdatesa-n.php3


CLICK DAILY TO FEED THE HUNGRY

United States: http://www.stopthehunger.com/
International: http://www.thehungersite.com/


Thats interesting, but it is somewhere between wishful thinking and fantasy.
It seems to give everybody an extra month growing season. I live in coastal
va., and I think carefully about setting plants out in the first week of
April. If, I lived NY city or New Jersey, I wouldn't. Len


I didn't write that, except the .sig file - mixed up
attributions somewhere. It's an easy mistake to make, I'm
just correcting it for the record. I never even saw
that webpage...

Pat
--
Pat Meadows
CLICK DAILY TO FEED THE HUNGRY
United States: http://www.stopthehunger.com/
International: http://www.thehungersite.com/
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Old 13-02-2003, 07:25 PM
Bill Hewitt
 
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In my experience, they will not do as well when you do that. Also, the
stress will invite insects and disease. The best that you can hope for is
the same results as if you waited.

On the other hand, planting SEEDS directly in the ground at that time works
great for me. There is an illusion of getting a later start, but I have
found that while it takes a while to catch up, the plants tend be much
healthier and I have a much better overall crop by doing that. I read some
research for a university that supported my experiences, too.

Apparently, the stress of transplanting basically offsets and gain you get
by starting with a plant instead of a seed.

"Jim Carter" wrote in message
...
Our last frost date is May 24. Does this mean that tomatoes may be

planted at
this time even though the soil is still cool?I would, of course, have

hardened
off the plants prior to this.
---
This message prepared using voice recognition technology. There
may be 'air roars'.



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Old 16-02-2003, 09:03 AM
Zphysics1
 
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On the other hand, planting SEEDS directly in the ground at that time works
great for me. There is an illusion of getting a later start, but I have
found that while it takes a while to catch up, the plants tend be much
healthier and I have a much better overall crop by doing that.



I think that if you use something like jiffy pots -- they transplanting process
does not cause stress. I just started lettuce seeds . The ones I started in
jiffy pots were healthier than sow = direct method.

/z.

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