I'm a bit denser than some, but eventually I know that a major pruning
is required when:

* The camera has to be set two f-stops lower than usual to take
a picture of the tank because it is so dark

* It's 2003, and you find a species floating on the surface that
you thought you got rid of in late 2001 (Water sprite).

* You only tied one rhizome of Anubias to your driftwood.
You break off two large rhizomes that had grown on the
back side of the driftwood. Three large rhizomes remain.

* There's a black shrimp hiding in the removed Anubias. You
have never purchased a black shrimp.

* There's Java fern growing in the removed Aunbias. You
took out all the Java Fern 6 months ago.

* There's Baby Tears growing in the removed Java Fern. You
took out all the Baby Tears 3 months ago.

* You cut 37 leaves off two swords, and they still look full.

* You discover two new 8-inch swords behind the large
swords while you are pruning.

This all happened yesterday. At 2pm, I told my wife I needed an hour to
clean the tank, then didn't finish until after dinner. I estimate that I
removed 40-50% of the plant matter in my tank, and it still looks
heavily planted.

I'm hoping this solves the mystery of why the fert dosing that used to
be adequate to promote fast, algae-free growth has recently seemed
inadequate-I had far more plants than I had realized! Tom Barr's latest
recommendations (the Estimative Index) are starting to make a lot of
sense.

* There's a black shrimp hiding in the removed Anubias. You
have never purchased a black shrimp.

Really? How big is it? How did it get in the tank? Is it just a ghost or
Amano shrimp that's been chowing down on java moss? Or a new species?

I'm hoping this solves the mystery of why the fert dosing that used to
be adequate to promote fast, algae-free growth has recently seemed
inadequate-I had far more plants than I had realized!

I know the feeling. Remember when I posting here about how I had to put 4 Tb
of TMG a day in my tank, and people were suggesting I add Epson salts or
calcium or iron, that the plants couldn't possibly need that much fertilizer?

Well, I did a massive pruning, and have tried to keep things cut back since
then. Amazingly enough, the tank is now fine with about 1 Tb a day of TMG.


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

LeighMo wrote:

* There's a black shrimp hiding in the removed Anubias. You
have never purchased a black shrimp.

Really? How big is it? How did it get in the tank? Is it just a ghost or
Amano shrimp that's been chowing down on java moss? Or a new species?

It looks an awful lot like an Amano shrimp, with the same yellow stripe down the
back, but the body is black. It is not a ghost shrimp, red cherry shrimp or
singapoor shrimp, all of which I have seen. It is very attractive. I believe it
is an Amano shrimp that has turned black for some reason. It looks healthy.

The only shrimp that I have knowingly added to this tank are Amanos (two dozen)
and Red Cherr (one dozen)

I'm hoping this solves the mystery of why the fert dosing that used to
be adequate to promote fast, algae-free growth has recently seemed
inadequate-I had far more plants than I had realized!

I know the feeling. Remember when I posting here about how I had to put 4 Tb
of TMG a day in my tank, and people were suggesting I add Epson salts or
calcium or iron, that the plants couldn't possibly need that much fertilizer?

Well, I did a massive pruning, and have tried to keep things cut back since
then. Amazingly enough, the tank is now fine with about 1 Tb a day of TMG.

Thank you for the validation! I just couldn't figure out why everything had
slowed down.

You know, there's a definite progression of problems that lots of people
encounter. Mine went like this:

* Planted lots of plants. They grew fast for a little while, then stopped.
* Figured out they needed Potassium. Added Flourish Potassium,
plants started growing again, then slowed again.
* Figured out they needed trace. Added Flourish, plants started
growing again, but soon started to look yellow.
* Figured out they needed Iron. Added Flourish Iron, plants started
growing again, but soon slowed down again.
* Figured out they were low on Nitrate. Added KNO3. Plants started
growing real well, for a long time. LFS traded cuttings for ferts and
fish and equipment. Life was good.
* Finally, inevitable horizontal and diagonal growth fills in lots of nooks
and crannies with plants, and you have double or triple the plant
mass you used to, even after pruning. Now the ferts that were fine
a few months back are inadequate again. Algae starts resurging.

That's the stage I reached recently. Now I've got three full buckets of cuttings
and I'm amazed that it all came out of my tank, which is still heavily planted!

Again, Tom Barr's latest recommendation (The Estimative Index) is starting to
look smarter and smarter. You won't keep hitting these plateaus. But you will
have to prune a lot.

It looks an awful lot like an Amano shrimp, with the same yellow stripe down
the
back, but the body is black. It is not a ghost shrimp, red cherry shrimp or
singapoor shrimp, all of which I have seen. It is very attractive. I believe
it
is an Amano shrimp that has turned black for some reason. It looks healthy.

I think I have some like that. (We were just talking about this on the
Freshwater Shrimp list.) Amano shrimp seem to vary a lot in color. They tend
to be bluish when you get them, but once they've been in your tank, they turn
different colors: clear, brown, green, black. Personally, I think it depends
on their diet. Perhaps depending on what areas of the tank they've staked out.
The "black" shrimp tend to be the larger/older ones, and in my tanks, I often
see them chowing down on java moss...which, coincidentally or not, is almost
the same so-dark-green-it-looks-black color they are.

Now I've got three full buckets of cuttings
and I'm amazed that it all came out of my tank, which is still heavily
planted!

I know the feeling!

Even now that I know better, I sometimes let the tank get overgrown. Out of
laziness, mostly. The plants grow gradually, at least when you see the tank
every day. I keep thinking, "Well, it's not that bad." Then suddenly, I
realize it *is* that bad!


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

inadequate-I had far more plants than I had realized! Tom Barr's latest
recommendations (the Estimative Index) are starting to make a lot of
sense.

What was that (the Estimative Index)?

Is this the one you are talking about
For a 20 gallon tanks I add 2-3x a week:
1/4 teaspoon KKNO3
2rice grain's worth of KH2PO4
5mls of Flourish
and once a week after the water change
1/4 teaspoon K2SO4

That is as simple as you are going to get.
Do 50% weekly water changes and keep the CO2 in the 20-30ppm range.

--
Thank You

Dominic
http://www.dlink.org/aqua

Aqua wrote:

inadequate-I had far more plants than I had realized! Tom Barr's latest
recommendations (the Estimative Index) are starting to make a lot of
sense.

What was that (the Estimative Index)?

Is this the one you are talking about
For a 20 gallon tanks I add 2-3x a week:
1/4 teaspoon KKNO3
2rice grain's worth of KH2PO4
5mls of Flourish
and once a week after the water change
1/4 teaspoon K2SO4

That is as simple as you are going to get.
Do 50% weekly water changes and keep the CO2 in the 20-30ppm range.

Yes, that is the crux of it. Tom called it "the Estimative Index" when he
posted it. Here's the original article:

http://fins.actwin.com/aquatic-plant.../msg00594.html

In it he refers to a dosing calculator:

http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_p...osage_calc.htm

Read the article to grok what Tom is saying-he's making an extremely valuable
point.