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#1
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4.7 Watts per Gallon!
Hi Folks:
I just got back into the aquarium hobby after a 15 year vacation. Wow, the compact flourcent lights that are available are great! (I remember how hot my tank got with the older lights.) Anyway until yesterday I had a Cora life 48" strip w/2 65watt bulbs on my 55gal. Plants were doing fine but not really growing that much. The red ones (not sure which) were only surviving. I just installed a Coralife quad arrangement: 4 65watt bulbs. What a difference in light! I'm looking forward to more plant growth I think. I also have a DIY CO2 generator that bubbles a bit and I use Sachem's Excel. I just LOVE looking at the plants and the cardinals moving through them. So pretty! |
#2
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#4
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In article k.net,
says... I'd like to try CO2 injection , but it seems that I need an appx. $200 outlay. Also, my tapwater pH is a low (6.7) and so is the hardness. (Soft) As I understand it to do this correctly I need to monitor the pH with a meterin order to inject the proper amount of CO2. I like keeping soft water fish (South American dawrf cichlids, and perhaps discus in the future) but the initial cost and 'micromanagement' seem prohibitive. This is just my feeling, from a beginner. Any opinions/comments welcome. Thanks for all the advise. There is a cost factor but you might be able to get equipped in the low $100 range if you are lucky enough to find a cheap 5, 10, or 20 lb CO2 tank on the used market. (I bought two for around $30 each.) The Milwaukee CO2 regulator with bubble counter and needle valve is readily available on eBay for about $80 (new). A Hagen bubble ladder is about $10. You do not require an automatic pH monitor/controller. Instead you can set it up at some initial rate, say 1 bubble every two seconds, then adjust up or down as needed to get to the level you seek. If you know your KH, then you can determine CO2 by measuring pH using your favorite test method. It may take a small adjustment once or twice a day for three days to establish your setting, but once done it will remain stable. As far as the water softness and pH, it sounds like you would need to add a small amount of baking soda to balance the CO2. If you added only enough to reach a KH of 3 degrees (less than one teaspoon in 10 gallons), that would support a useful level of 10ppm CO2 at a pH of 7. There is good reading he http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/ |
#5
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George Pontis wrote:
You do not require an automatic pH monitor/controller. Instead you can set it up at some initial rate, say 1 bubble every two seconds, then adjust up or down as needed to get to the level you seek. If you know your KH, then you can determine CO2 by measuring pH using your favorite test method. It may take a small adjustment once or twice a day for three days to establish your setting, but once done it will remain stable. I find my that bubble rate varies depending on ambient temperature. The higher the temperature, the lower the bubble rate. One day, I set my needle valve for 2 BPS. Ambient temperature was 25 degrees C. The next day the temperature rose to 30C. I got 1/2 BPS. I set the bubble rate back to 2 BPS. The day after it went back down to 25C. The bubble rate was now 4 BPS. This must be something to do with expansion of metal parts or cheap CO2 valves. I'm not sure if this is everyone's experience, but I have to use a pH controller to keep the pH stable. It was just far too much stress without it. Nikki |
#6
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"Nikki Casali" wrote in message ... George Pontis wrote: You do not require an automatic pH monitor/controller. Instead you can set it up at some initial rate, say 1 bubble every two seconds, then adjust up or down as needed to get to the level you seek. If you know your KH, then you can determine CO2 by measuring pH using your favorite test method. It may take a small adjustment once or twice a day for three days to establish your setting, but once done it will remain stable. I find my that bubble rate varies depending on ambient temperature. The higher the temperature, the lower the bubble rate. One day, I set my needle valve for 2 BPS. Ambient temperature was 25 degrees C. The next day the temperature rose to 30C. I got 1/2 BPS. I set the bubble rate back to 2 BPS. The day after it went back down to 25C. The bubble rate was now 4 BPS. This must be something to do with expansion of metal parts or cheap CO2 valves. I'm not sure if this is everyone's experience, but I have to use a pH controller to keep the pH stable. It was just far too much stress without it. Nikki I had real problems with my first needle valve, it would not stay consistent at all. This caused large PH swings, as the bubble count was always falling off. The company finally replaced the whole regulator and it does seem better. But I purchased a PH monitor long before the replacement arrived. It's worth the extra cost for the peace of mind (at least for me). I expect more expensive needle valves may be less problematic. |
#7
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#8
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Well this is all very interesting and I must admit that once I do a bit of
research I'll go to CO2 injection way. BUT in the meantime (say 3-4 month's? ) Seachem's Excel seems easier, if it works. Does it? I've got a 55 gallon tank, and I use about 2 capfulls about 3 times a week with my above lighting. (Also using Trace and Potassium and Iron fertilizer). Does taht sound right? "George Pontis" wrote in message t... In article , says... George Pontis wrote: You do not require an automatic pH monitor/controller. Instead you can set it up at some initial rate, say 1 bubble every two seconds, then adjust up or down as needed to get to the level you seek. If you know your KH, then you can determine CO2 by measuring pH using your favorite test method. It may take a small adjustment once or twice a day for three days to establish your setting, but once done it will remain stable. I find my that bubble rate varies depending on ambient temperature. The higher the temperature, the lower the bubble rate. One day, I set my needle valve for 2 BPS. Ambient temperature was 25 degrees C. The next day the temperature rose to 30C. I got 1/2 BPS. I set the bubble rate back to 2 BPS. The day after it went back down to 25C. The bubble rate was now 4 BPS. This must be something to do with expansion of metal parts or cheap CO2 valves. I'm not sure if this is everyone's experience, but I have to use a pH controller to keep the pH stable. It was just far too much stress without it. Nikki Hi Nikki, A 4:1 change over a few degrees of temperature, that is quite sensitive. And understandable why you prefer the use of a pH probe and controller. One day I will have to get one to play with. But perhaps your unit is worse than typical ? The constant-flow, open-loop system seems to be commonly used, and hardly anyone could live with that kind of variation. The instructions that came with my Wilwaukee regulator said that one should open the needle valve so it is not limiting, then use the regulator pressure adjustment to set the flow rate. My unit that was not stable with that adjustment. I found it better to set the pressure to something that could be diplayed on the gauge, say 5 psi, then adjust the needle valve for the desired flow. This has worked really well for me - it never needs further adjustment. I should note that I have the solenoid powered 24/7. If one were to plot CO2 over a 24 hr period, there might be a few tenths change; I have not watched it that carefully. But when I check in the mornings the pH is consistent and so is the bubble rate. George |
#9
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"Mr. Zee" wrote in message .net... Well this is all very interesting and I must admit that once I do a bit of research I'll go to CO2 injection way. BUT in the meantime (say 3-4 month's? ) Seachem's Excel seems easier, if it works. Does it? Elaine says it does. Later! I've got a 55 gallon tank, and I use about 2 capfulls about 3 times a week with my above lighting. (Also using Trace and Potassium and Iron fertilizer). Does taht sound right? "George Pontis" wrote in message t... In article , says... George Pontis wrote: You do not require an automatic pH monitor/controller. Instead you can set it up at some initial rate, say 1 bubble every two seconds, then adjust up or down as needed to get to the level you seek. If you know your KH, then you can determine CO2 by measuring pH using your favorite test method. It may take a small adjustment once or twice a day for three days to establish your setting, but once done it will remain stable. I find my that bubble rate varies depending on ambient temperature. The higher the temperature, the lower the bubble rate. One day, I set my needle valve for 2 BPS. Ambient temperature was 25 degrees C. The next day the temperature rose to 30C. I got 1/2 BPS. I set the bubble rate back to 2 BPS. The day after it went back down to 25C. The bubble rate was now 4 BPS. This must be something to do with expansion of metal parts or cheap CO2 valves. I'm not sure if this is everyone's experience, but I have to use a pH controller to keep the pH stable. It was just far too much stress without it. Nikki Hi Nikki, A 4:1 change over a few degrees of temperature, that is quite sensitive. And understandable why you prefer the use of a pH probe and controller. One day I will have to get one to play with. But perhaps your unit is worse than typical ? The constant-flow, open-loop system seems to be commonly used, and hardly anyone could live with that kind of variation. The instructions that came with my Wilwaukee regulator said that one should open the needle valve so it is not limiting, then use the regulator pressure adjustment to set the flow rate. My unit that was not stable with that adjustment. I found it better to set the pressure to something that could be diplayed on the gauge, say 5 psi, then adjust the needle valve for the desired flow. This has worked really well for me - it never needs further adjustment. I should note that I have the solenoid powered 24/7. If one were to plot CO2 over a 24 hr period, there might be a few tenths change; I have not watched it that carefully. But when I check in the mornings the pH is consistent and so is the bubble rate. George |
#10
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Mr. Zee wrote:
Well this is all very interesting and I must admit that once I do a bit of research I'll go to CO2 injection way. BUT in the meantime (say 3-4 month's? ) Seachem's Excel seems easier, if it works. Does it? I've got a 55 gallon tank, and I use about 2 capfulls about 3 times a week with my above lighting. (Also using Trace and Potassium and Iron fertilizer). Does taht sound right? I like Excel. Seachem claims it works to about 70% of CO2. Is your tank low algae (so that algae eaters can easily clean the tank up) with good plant growth? If so, it's working. ;-) -- Elaine T __ http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__ rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com |
#11
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Hi Elaine:
Thanks for all the info. (Thanks to the other group members too.) I have a lot of alge on my plants. I bought a Clown Pelco thinking he would take care of it but he just hangs out in the driftwood. So last week I bought 2 1" Chinese Algae Eaters. They are busy little guys, cleaning thing up. Are two enough for a 55 gallon? I'd like to buy a couple more but don't want to starve them. Also, I had bought a nice 12" long Ludwiga but after a few days it started to lose all it leaves. I took it out, cut it back to a small 4" strand or two and replanted it. I hadn't gotten the extra lighting when I bought it so perhaps that's why it died? I have soft water, pH 6.7, 81F. By the way, a few friends came over yesterday. Everyone said 'ohh ahh are those REAL plants?' It's a nice feeling yes? So nice to have beautiful green planst in the aquarium. "Elaine T" wrote in message ... Mr. Zee wrote: Well this is all very interesting and I must admit that once I do a bit of research I'll go to CO2 injection way. BUT in the meantime (say 3-4 month's? ) Seachem's Excel seems easier, if it works. Does it? I've got a 55 gallon tank, and I use about 2 capfulls about 3 times a week with my above lighting. (Also using Trace and Potassium and Iron fertilizer). Does taht sound right? I like Excel. Seachem claims it works to about 70% of CO2. Is your tank low algae (so that algae eaters can easily clean the tank up) with good plant growth? If so, it's working. ;-) -- Elaine T __ http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__ rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com |
#12
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On 2005-08-01, Mr. Zee wrote:
Also, I had bought a nice 12" long Ludwiga but after a few days it started to lose all it leaves. I took it out, cut it back to a small 4" strand or two and replanted it. I hadn't gotten the extra lighting when I bought it so perhaps that's why it died? I have soft water, pH 6.7, 81F. Did it lose *all* of its leaves or just the ones at the bottom? My Luds pretty agressively shed their lower leaves as they grow higher. If that's what you saw, it was probably just a normal growth pattern. If it was all the leaves, that could be normal as well. Often times a moving a plant is "stressful" to it - you'll see stunted growth/die-off as it adjusts to its new environment. By the way, a few friends came over yesterday. Everyone said 'ohh ahh are those REAL plants?' It's a nice feeling yes? So nice to have beautiful green planst in the aquarium. To be honest, I'd be pretty nervous about 4.7 watts per gallon in a 55gal tank. That's an enormous amount of light. I'm not familiar with the nutrients provided by the Seachem you're using, but keep a very close eye on your nitrate, potassium, and phosphate levels until you reach a good equilibrium. One day off kilter and I suspect you could end up with a pretty massive algae attack. Search through the archives for posts by Tom Barr and his comments regarding fertilizing - they are spot on and will give you info you will probably need sooner or later with guns like that. -- Ross Vandegrift "The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell." --St. Augustine, De Genesi ad Litteram, Book II, xviii, 37 |
#13
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Mr. Zee wrote:
Hi Elaine: Thanks for all the info. (Thanks to the other group members too.) I have a lot of alge on my plants. I bought a Clown Pelco thinking he would take care of it but he just hangs out in the driftwood. So last week I bought 2 1" Chinese Algae Eaters. They are busy little guys, cleaning thing up. Are two enough for a 55 gallon? I'd like to buy a couple more but don't want to starve them. Chinese algae eaters?!? You might want to read this - those are pretty nasty fish when they grow up. http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/Algae-Eaters/ I've found Ancistrus spp. to be better algae eaters than Peckoltia spp. I also like Farlowella spp. and otocinclus. When I had a planted 55, it was home to 1 Ancistrus, 1 Farlowella, 6 otocinclus, and 3 siamese algae eaters. You could add any of those fish to your tank in preference to more CAE. Also, I had bought a nice 12" long Ludwiga but after a few days it started to lose all it leaves. I took it out, cut it back to a small 4" strand or two and replanted it. I hadn't gotten the extra lighting when I bought it so perhaps that's why it died? I have soft water, pH 6.7, 81F. By the way, a few friends came over yesterday. Everyone said 'ohh ahh are those REAL plants?' It's a nice feeling yes? So nice to have beautiful green planst in the aquarium. That is a lot of fun. -- Elaine T __ http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__ rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com |
#14
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I'll check out the website. My LFS guy is very knowable and assured me that
the two I have don't get very big. (That's why I stay away fm the Wal-Mart type fish stores, so I can obtain good advise.) I'll keep an idea on my phosphate and nitrate levels. Thanks! "Elaine T" wrote in message m... Mr. Zee wrote: Hi Elaine: Thanks for all the info. (Thanks to the other group members too.) I have a lot of alge on my plants. I bought a Clown Pelco thinking he would take care of it but he just hangs out in the driftwood. So last week I bought 2 1" Chinese Algae Eaters. They are busy little guys, cleaning thing up. Are two enough for a 55 gallon? I'd like to buy a couple more but don't want to starve them. Chinese algae eaters?!? You might want to read this - those are pretty nasty fish when they grow up. http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/Algae-Eaters/ I've found Ancistrus spp. to be better algae eaters than Peckoltia spp. I also like Farlowella spp. and otocinclus. When I had a planted 55, it was home to 1 Ancistrus, 1 Farlowella, 6 otocinclus, and 3 siamese algae eaters. You could add any of those fish to your tank in preference to more CAE. Also, I had bought a nice 12" long Ludwiga but after a few days it started to lose all it leaves. I took it out, cut it back to a small 4" strand or two and replanted it. I hadn't gotten the extra lighting when I bought it so perhaps that's why it died? I have soft water, pH 6.7, 81F. By the way, a few friends came over yesterday. Everyone said 'ohh ahh are those REAL plants?' It's a nice feeling yes? So nice to have beautiful green planst in the aquarium. That is a lot of fun. -- Elaine T __ http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__ rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com |
#15
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Hi Elaine and the group:
I don't think I have a SAE, I have two Otocinclus Catfish. I'll get a bristle-nosed tonight. The fellow above was right about 4.7 watts /gallon! W/in three days I had serve alge all over my nice plants: clumpy green stuff entangling my dwarf swords and hairgrass. Sooooo, back to 2.4/gallon. I finally ordered a CO2 setup fm ebay and will get a CO2 tank when it comes in. By the way for a warm water/acid 82F/6.5 low KH/DH tank which would be better as background plants: Vallisneria or the Sagittaria species? Thanks again! Vallisneria americana or the "Elaine T" wrote in message m... Mr. Zee wrote: Hi Elaine: Thanks for all the info. (Thanks to the other group members too.) I have a lot of alge on my plants. I bought a Clown Pelco thinking he would take care of it but he just hangs out in the driftwood. So last week I bought 2 1" Chinese Algae Eaters. They are busy little guys, cleaning thing up. Are two enough for a 55 gallon? I'd like to buy a couple more but don't want to starve them. Chinese algae eaters?!? You might want to read this - those are pretty nasty fish when they grow up. http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/Algae-Eaters/ I've found Ancistrus spp. to be better algae eaters than Peckoltia spp. I also like Farlowella spp. and otocinclus. When I had a planted 55, it was home to 1 Ancistrus, 1 Farlowella, 6 otocinclus, and 3 siamese algae eaters. You could add any of those fish to your tank in preference to more CAE. Also, I had bought a nice 12" long Ludwiga but after a few days it started to lose all it leaves. I took it out, cut it back to a small 4" strand or two and replanted it. I hadn't gotten the extra lighting when I bought it so perhaps that's why it died? I have soft water, pH 6.7, 81F. By the way, a few friends came over yesterday. Everyone said 'ohh ahh are those REAL plants?' It's a nice feeling yes? So nice to have beautiful green planst in the aquarium. That is a lot of fun. -- Elaine T __ http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__ rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com |
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