Hi all,

I was wondering if I could ask some advise of you all?

I appear to have developed a deficiency of some sort in my tank... I've
been to theKrib and had a look at the chart and it could be one of a couple
of things... Boron, Ca, Magnesium, Manganese, Copper, Zinc or Molybdenum...
I put 5 drops of Dupla Plant 24 in my tank a day, which is enough for
250litres and my tank is 200 litres... My sword plant's new growth is light
green, has holes, dead spots and the leaf lookes all distorted (kind of like
melted plastic) Also, the old leaves of the Aponegeton are going
brownish/red and develping holes...

I would have first thought Potassium - for the holes, but I add 1.5tps of
K2SO4 twice a week... I add 2x500mg tabs of Ca, and I add enough magnesium
to bring my level up to 5ppm... Can anyone please point me in the right
direction?? My Fe level has dropped dramatically since I added my PH
controller... It was at 0.5, now I am having trouble keeping it above
0.01... Could it be possible that b/c now I have brought my CO2 up to 19ppm
(previously I think it was 9ppm) that the plants are using all the
fertilizers and I am developing several deficincies at once?

Does anyone else find that there is ALWAYS a nutrient deficiency of some
sort in their tank? Do you think that it would be worth making some PMDD
that way I can tweak it to my spec's? I.e. more Ca and Mg than the Dupla
drops?

Thanks all.

Justin.

Everyone is going to have an opinion on this one and several on this
N/G that know far more than I, however I'll share my recipe. First, I
run well water, which may provide an especially high nutrient value,
but I've rarely had a problem with a deficiency. I dose nutrients to my
15 gallon (25%) water change about every 10 days.

5mL Serra plant fertilizer
1.5 tsp Green Light Stump remover (NO3) to achieve 5-10ppm (cause I
have a low fish load)
2 tsp baking soda for the KH to achieve 5-7dKH (cause my water is
really, really hard)
1 tsp Epsom salts and sometimes I add "ph7.0" product for a low level
of phosphates.
and three Serra substrate tablets under my swords once a month.

IMHO..... every case if different so don't follow my recipe exactly.
You will need to test your water often for several months to get a
feeling for the condition of your tap water and your tank's nutrient
use (or accumulation) dependant on fish load, plant density, substrate,
gravel vac method, ect, ect. Start out testing once a week. Once you
balance the environment.... once a month?

My Aquaria info & pics at:
http://www.geocities.com/spiral_72/Spirals_page.html

"Justin" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

I was wondering if I could ask some advise of you all?

I appear to have developed a deficiency of some sort in my tank... I've
been to theKrib and had a look at the chart and it could be one of a
couple
of things... Boron, Ca, Magnesium, Manganese, Copper, Zinc or
Molybdenum...
I put 5 drops of Dupla Plant 24 in my tank a day, which is enough for
250litres and my tank is 200 litres...


5 drops a day! This may be fine for a 250l tank but it really depends on how
much light you have under the hood. Perhaps you should be adding about 5ml
2-3 times a week.


My sword plant's new growth is light
green, has holes, dead spots and the leaf lookes all distorted (kind of
like
melted plastic) Also, the old leaves of the Aponegeton are going
brownish/red and develping holes...

Starving plants,,,,up all your macro nutrients drastically.


I would have first thought Potassium - for the holes, but I add 1.5tps of
K2SO4 twice a week... I add 2x500mg tabs of Ca, and I add enough
magnesium
to bring my level up to 5ppm... Can anyone please point me in the right
direction?? My Fe level has dropped dramatically since I added my PH
controller... It was at 0.5, now I am having trouble keeping it above
0.01... Could it be possible that b/c now I have brought my CO2 up to
19ppm
(previously I think it was 9ppm) that the plants are using all the
fertilizers and I am developing several deficincies at once?

Yes. Add more ferts. Try to bring the co2 up even higher....30ppm.


Does anyone else find that there is ALWAYS a nutrient deficiency of some
sort in their tank? Do you think that it would be worth making some PMDD
that way I can tweak it to my spec's? I.e. more Ca and Mg than the Dupla
drops?

PMDD is a good idea, every tank's needs are different. If you follow Tom
Barr's recipe its virtually foolproof. Throw all the nutrients your plants
will ever need and then do a LARGE water change over the weekend to reset
the tank, best damn technique for growing aquatic plants ever
--
Kind Regards
Cameron

Thanks for the tips guys!

I will do what you say and dump a heap of ferts in today and then do a 1/3
water change tomorrow.

I really appreciate your advise!

Justin

"Dogma Discharge" wrote in message
...
"Justin" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

I was wondering if I could ask some advise of you all?

I appear to have developed a deficiency of some sort in my tank... I've
been to theKrib and had a look at the chart and it could be one of a
couple
of things... Boron, Ca, Magnesium, Manganese, Copper, Zinc or
Molybdenum...
I put 5 drops of Dupla Plant 24 in my tank a day, which is enough for
250litres and my tank is 200 litres...


5 drops a day! This may be fine for a 250l tank but it really depends on
how
much light you have under the hood. Perhaps you should be adding about 5ml
2-3 times a week.


My sword plant's new growth is light
green, has holes, dead spots and the leaf lookes all distorted (kind of
like
melted plastic) Also, the old leaves of the Aponegeton are going
brownish/red and develping holes...

Starving plants,,,,up all your macro nutrients drastically.


I would have first thought Potassium - for the holes, but I add 1.5tps of
K2SO4 twice a week... I add 2x500mg tabs of Ca, and I add enough
magnesium
to bring my level up to 5ppm... Can anyone please point me in the right
direction?? My Fe level has dropped dramatically since I added my PH
controller... It was at 0.5, now I am having trouble keeping it above
0.01... Could it be possible that b/c now I have brought my CO2 up to
19ppm
(previously I think it was 9ppm) that the plants are using all the
fertilizers and I am developing several deficincies at once?

Yes. Add more ferts. Try to bring the co2 up even higher....30ppm.


Does anyone else find that there is ALWAYS a nutrient deficiency of some
sort in their tank? Do you think that it would be worth making some PMDD
that way I can tweak it to my spec's? I.e. more Ca and Mg than the Dupla
drops?

PMDD is a good idea, every tank's needs are different. If you follow Tom
Barr's recipe its virtually foolproof. Throw all the nutrients your plants
will ever need and then do a LARGE water change over the weekend to reset
the tank, best damn technique for growing aquatic plants ever
--
Kind Regards
Cameron

Dogma Discharge wrote:
"Justin" wrote in message
...

Hi all,

I was wondering if I could ask some advise of you all?

I appear to have developed a deficiency of some sort in my tank... I've
been to theKrib and had a look at the chart and it could be one of a

couple

of things... Boron, Ca, Magnesium, Manganese, Copper, Zinc or

Molybdenum...

I put 5 drops of Dupla Plant 24 in my tank a day, which is enough for
250litres and my tank is 200 litres...



5 drops a day! This may be fine for a 250l tank but it really depends on how
much light you have under the hood. Perhaps you should be adding about 5ml
2-3 times a week.


My sword plant's new growth is light

green, has holes, dead spots and the leaf lookes all distorted (kind of

like

melted plastic) Also, the old leaves of the Aponegeton are going
brownish/red and develping holes...


Starving plants,,,,up all your macro nutrients drastically.


I would have first thought Potassium - for the holes, but I add 1.5tps of
K2SO4 twice a week... I add 2x500mg tabs of Ca, and I add enough

magnesium

to bring my level up to 5ppm... Can anyone please point me in the right
direction?? My Fe level has dropped dramatically since I added my PH
controller... It was at 0.5, now I am having trouble keeping it above
0.01... Could it be possible that b/c now I have brought my CO2 up to

19ppm

(previously I think it was 9ppm) that the plants are using all the
fertilizers and I am developing several deficincies at once?


Yes. Add more ferts. Try to bring the co2 up even higher....30ppm.


Does anyone else find that there is ALWAYS a nutrient deficiency of some
sort in their tank? Do you think that it would be worth making some PMDD
that way I can tweak it to my spec's? I.e. more Ca and Mg than the Dupla
drops?


PMDD is a good idea, every tank's needs are different. If you follow Tom
Barr's recipe its virtually foolproof. Throw all the nutrients your plants
will ever need and then do a LARGE water change over the weekend to reset
the tank, best damn technique for growing aquatic plants ever
--
Kind Regards
Cameron



I agree with Cameron. It sounds like your plants are running out of
everything now that they're growing fast with the CO2. I'd guess you're
short on N,K, and Ca++ at the minimum. But don't try to spot-fertilize
for deficiences. Add everything your plants could need.

Duplaplant is supposed to be a very good fertilizer. I'd guess that you
just need to add a lot more of it to get your iron above 0.2 ppm. Once
you're out, PMDD are a good idea because they're cheaper and a bit more
flexible. Also, use KN03 and a touch of KH2P04. You really only need
K2SO4 for a tank with a heavy fish load that already has adequate
nitrogen and phosphate.

Tom's Estimative Index article explains the generous nutrient/big water
change method Cameron is talking about. It's a brilliant and very
simple idea that I've recently started trying to use for some of my more
challenging sunlit tanks. The article is at http://www.barrreport.com.
You have to register to free to read it, but it's well worthwhile.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

Thanks for the response Elaine!

I looked at the BarrReport web-page and the article that you mentioned...
It was slightly confusing I must say... But what I basically got from it
was that you put in the amount of ferts that your plants would take up as a
maximum and then accompany this with large water changes... i have also
boosted my CO2. I think I may need to pull back a bit on the K2SO4 though,
unless I am putting in matching amounts of Nitrogen or PO4 ( that is to
bring it up to the NPK ratio)... Is that right?

I am going to purchase the Trace mix and make PMDD... The only problem I
had with the trace mix I found was that the calcium was in a carbonate
form... Is this ok to use? Or should I hunt around for one that has
calcium as citrate or another form?

Thanks.

Justin
"Elaine T" wrote in message
m...
Dogma Discharge wrote:
"Justin" wrote in message
...

Hi all,

I was wondering if I could ask some advise of you all?

I appear to have developed a deficiency of some sort in my tank... I've
been to theKrib and had a look at the chart and it could be one of a

couple

of things... Boron, Ca, Magnesium, Manganese, Copper, Zinc or

Molybdenum...

I put 5 drops of Dupla Plant 24 in my tank a day, which is enough for
250litres and my tank is 200 litres...



5 drops a day! This may be fine for a 250l tank but it really depends on
how
much light you have under the hood. Perhaps you should be adding about
5ml
2-3 times a week.


My sword plant's new growth is light

green, has holes, dead spots and the leaf lookes all distorted (kind of

like

melted plastic) Also, the old leaves of the Aponegeton are going
brownish/red and develping holes...


Starving plants,,,,up all your macro nutrients drastically.


I would have first thought Potassium - for the holes, but I add 1.5tps of
K2SO4 twice a week... I add 2x500mg tabs of Ca, and I add enough

magnesium

to bring my level up to 5ppm... Can anyone please point me in the right
direction?? My Fe level has dropped dramatically since I added my PH
controller... It was at 0.5, now I am having trouble keeping it above
0.01... Could it be possible that b/c now I have brought my CO2 up to

19ppm

(previously I think it was 9ppm) that the plants are using all the
fertilizers and I am developing several deficincies at once?


Yes. Add more ferts. Try to bring the co2 up even higher....30ppm.


Does anyone else find that there is ALWAYS a nutrient deficiency of some
sort in their tank? Do you think that it would be worth making some PMDD
that way I can tweak it to my spec's? I.e. more Ca and Mg than the Dupla
drops?


PMDD is a good idea, every tank's needs are different. If you follow Tom
Barr's recipe its virtually foolproof. Throw all the nutrients your
plants
will ever need and then do a LARGE water change over the weekend to reset
the tank, best damn technique for growing aquatic plants ever
--
Kind Regards
Cameron



I agree with Cameron. It sounds like your plants are running out of
everything now that they're growing fast with the CO2. I'd guess you're
short on N,K, and Ca++ at the minimum. But don't try to spot-fertilize
for deficiences. Add everything your plants could need.

Duplaplant is supposed to be a very good fertilizer. I'd guess that you
just need to add a lot more of it to get your iron above 0.2 ppm. Once
you're out, PMDD are a good idea because they're cheaper and a bit more
flexible. Also, use KN03 and a touch of KH2P04. You really only need
K2SO4 for a tank with a heavy fish load that already has adequate nitrogen
and phosphate.

Tom's Estimative Index article explains the generous nutrient/big water
change method Cameron is talking about. It's a brilliant and very simple
idea that I've recently started trying to use for some of my more
challenging sunlit tanks. The article is at http://www.barrreport.com.
You have to register to free to read it, but it's well worthwhile.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

Justin wrote:
Thanks for the response Elaine!

I looked at the BarrReport web-page and the article that you
mentioned... It was slightly confusing I must say... But what I
basically got from it was that you put in the amount of ferts that your
plants would take up as a maximum and then accompany this with large
water changes... i have also boosted my CO2. I think I may need to
pull back a bit on the K2SO4 though, unless I am putting in matching
amounts of Nitrogen or PO4 ( that is to bring it up to the NPK
ratio)... Is that right?

K won't hurt your tank unless you really overdo it. However, it is
better to balance the NPK ratio. The nice thing about putting in
nitrogen and phosphate if your fish load is light is that the plants
really green up and look nice.

I am going to purchase the Trace mix and make PMDD... The only problem
I had with the trace mix I found was that the calcium was in a carbonate
form... Is this ok to use? Or should I hunt around for one that has
calcium as citrate or another form?

Tom recommends Seachem Equilibrium for Ca++ and Mg++ if your water is
soft or you're using RO. You'll be mostly Seachem Equilibrium, trace &
iron mix, KN03, and a touch of K2P04. Seachem Equilibrium provides
potash too, so you don't need to dose with K2S04 if you use it. Do you
know about gregwatson.com for PMDD supplies? Plantex CSM+B at the
regular iron is working well for me.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

Thanks Elaine,

Had a look at the seachem website and Equilibium appears to have what I
need, great idea. The only down side is I want to move to discus, but most
discus here in Australia are bred in 'normal' water, not the soft, acidic
type so I should be fine.

Unfortunately, due to all that has gone on in the world recently, we cannot
bring some chemicals into australia, so gregwatson is a no go for me...
:-( The main fert I am having a problem obtaining is KNO3... I can only
get it from the rural area's of australia (about a 2 hour drive) and in 25kg
bags. it is cheap (AU$45.00), but it's going to be a bit of a pain, but
maybe I can sell some of it off (if anyone in Australia is interested??).

I think that you were right with the Dupla... I have a feeling the drops
were calculated for a beginning dose... I will go today to purchase the
trace mix and 'roll my own' fert... Give that a go for a couple of weeks
and see how I go...

Thanks for all your help.

Justin.

"Elaine T" wrote in message
m...
Justin wrote:
Thanks for the response Elaine!

I looked at the BarrReport web-page and the article that you mentioned...
It was slightly confusing I must say... But what I basically got from it
was that you put in the amount of ferts that your plants would take up as
a maximum and then accompany this with large water changes... i have
also boosted my CO2. I think I may need to pull back a bit on the K2SO4
though, unless I am putting in matching amounts of Nitrogen or PO4 ( that
is to bring it up to the NPK ratio)... Is that right?

K won't hurt your tank unless you really overdo it. However, it is better
to balance the NPK ratio. The nice thing about putting in nitrogen and
phosphate if your fish load is light is that the plants really green up
and look nice.

I am going to purchase the Trace mix and make PMDD... The only problem I
had with the trace mix I found was that the calcium was in a carbonate
form... Is this ok to use? Or should I hunt around for one that has
calcium as citrate or another form?

Tom recommends Seachem Equilibrium for Ca++ and Mg++ if your water is soft
or you're using RO. You'll be mostly Seachem Equilibrium, trace & iron
mix, KN03, and a touch of K2P04. Seachem Equilibrium provides potash too,
so you don't need to dose with K2S04 if you use it. Do you know about
gregwatson.com for PMDD supplies? Plantex CSM+B at the regular iron is
working well for me.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com