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#1
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tank disaster
Hi,
If wonder if any of you guys could help me. I did my usual 30% water change on Saturday night, I got in on sunday to find all of my tetras swimming near the surface gasping for air, the only thing I had done differently was increase the CO2 slightly. Then I noticed some bleeding heart tetras were dead, and then I noticed some shrimp going a bit strange darting up to the surface and back down again. Suddenly all the fish started to die in front of my eyes! There was obviously no oxygen in the water so I added a powerhead to create some surface agitation and did a 50% water change. The tank has now gone really cloudy and I've lost most of my tetras and shrimp, there are only some ottos, a 4 tetras, a rabble of shrimp and one ram which is hard as nails left alive. So this morning I rushed to my local aquatic shop. He asked me if the water had gone cloudy after I explained what happened and it had, so he then said it was a breakdown in the filter which has caused all the bacteria to go into the water, which had in turn suffocated all the fish, he recommended doing a big water change which I had already done and recommended I use some filter aid to clump together the particles to filter them out faster, I cant remember exactly what he said but it was along those lines. Can you guys explain what might have happened and why? This has never happened to me before and I've been keeping fish for a long time, to suddenly see them dying in front of my eyes has been a harrowing experience. I use an external filter and pressurised CO2, I dont know if that's anything to do with it, the tank is heavily planted. Thanks, Neil |
#2
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Neil Woodman wrote:
Hi, If wonder if any of you guys could help me. I did my usual 30% water change on Saturday night, I got in on sunday to find all of my tetras swimming near the surface gasping for air, the only thing I had done differently was increase the CO2 slightly. Then I noticed some bleeding heart tetras were dead, and then I noticed some shrimp going a bit strange darting up to the surface and back down again. Suddenly all the fish started to die in front of my eyes! There was obviously no oxygen in the water so I added a powerhead to create some surface agitation and did a 50% water change. The tank has now gone really cloudy and I've lost most of my tetras and shrimp, there are only some ottos, a 4 tetras, a rabble of shrimp and one ram which is hard as nails left alive. So this morning I rushed to my local aquatic shop. He asked me if the water had gone cloudy after I explained what happened and it had, so he then said it was a breakdown in the filter which has caused all the bacteria to go into the water, which had in turn suffocated all the fish, he recommended doing a big water change which I had already done and recommended I use some filter aid to clump together the particles to filter them out faster, I cant remember exactly what he said but it was along those lines. Can you guys explain what might have happened and why? This has never happened to me before and I've been keeping fish for a long time, to suddenly see them dying in front of my eyes has been a harrowing experience. I use an external filter and pressurised CO2, I dont know if that's anything to do with it, the tank is heavily planted. I'm very sad about what has happened. Do you have any idea what the CO2 level was or the pH? Is the change water straight from the tap and do you allow the water to stand to allow noxious gasses to dissipate? My tap water contains high amounts of CO2 etc. Why do you do large water changes? A breakdown in the filter causes all the bacteria to go into the water? I don't think so. The bacteria are already in the water. Did your filter jam up? You didn't make this clear. Nikki |
#3
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Nikki Casali wrote:
Neil Woodman wrote: Hi, If wonder if any of you guys could help me. I did my usual 30% water change on Saturday night, I got in on sunday to find all of my tetras swimming near the surface gasping for air, the only thing I had done differently was increase the CO2 slightly. Then I noticed some bleeding heart tetras were dead, and then I noticed some shrimp going a bit strange darting up to the surface and back down again. Suddenly all the fish started to die in front of my eyes! There was obviously no oxygen in the water so I added a powerhead to create some surface agitation and did a 50% water change. The tank has now gone really cloudy and I've lost most of my tetras and shrimp, there are only some ottos, a 4 tetras, a rabble of shrimp and one ram which is hard as nails left alive. So this morning I rushed to my local aquatic shop. He asked me if the water had gone cloudy after I explained what happened and it had, so he then said it was a breakdown in the filter which has caused all the bacteria to go into the water, which had in turn suffocated all the fish, he recommended doing a big water change which I had already done and recommended I use some filter aid to clump together the particles to filter them out faster, I cant remember exactly what he said but it was along those lines. Can you guys explain what might have happened and why? This has never happened to me before and I've been keeping fish for a long time, to suddenly see them dying in front of my eyes has been a harrowing experience. I use an external filter and pressurised CO2, I dont know if that's anything to do with it, the tank is heavily planted. I'm very sad about what has happened. Do you have any idea what the CO2 level was or the pH? Is the change water straight from the tap and do you allow the water to stand to allow noxious gasses to dissipate? My tap water contains high amounts of CO2 etc. Why do you do large water changes? A breakdown in the filter causes all the bacteria to go into the water? I don't think so. The bacteria are already in the water. Did your filter jam up? You didn't make this clear. Nikki Hi, Thanks for that. CO2 was about 1 bubble per second or so, ph was about 6.5. Although the test kit I have doesn't really measure that accurately in terms of range my ph indicator I have permanently setup showed nothing untoward. My tap water has always been ok bar a high level of phosphate, which I use rowaphos to remove, I'm thinking the rowaphos suddenly released all the phosphate it had stored up due to it being totally saturated and used up, I've heard that can happen. There seems to be nothing wrong with the filter but the water has gone really cloudy, I have 4 fish left which are still alive but my shrimp are perched on top of the inside edge of the tank, literally out of the water! They don't look too happy either. I have always done large water changes as I do about 30% per week, is this wrong? Neil |
#4
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"Neil Woodman" wrote
There seems to be nothing wrong with the filter but the water has gone really cloudy, I have 4 fish left which are still alive but my shrimp are perched on top of the inside edge of the tank, literally out of the water! They don't look too happy either. I have always done large water changes as I do about 30% per week, is this wrong? It does sound like your filter has died off for some reason. Do you have high nitrite or ammonia levels? 30% weekly is fine. -- Graham Ramsay Fair City Aquarist Society |
#5
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Graham Ramsay wrote:
"Neil Woodman" wrote There seems to be nothing wrong with the filter but the water has gone really cloudy, I have 4 fish left which are still alive but my shrimp are perched on top of the inside edge of the tank, literally out of the water! They don't look too happy either. I have always done large water changes as I do about 30% per week, is this wrong? It does sound like your filter has died off for some reason. Do you have high nitrite or ammonia levels? 30% weekly is fine. -- Graham Ramsay Fair City Aquarist Society What I think is that when I filled my filter cannister up, (its external) I used fresh water from the tap which I did dechlorinate but maybe that has killed off the bacteria in the filter and caused it to go anerobic, that would explain the suddenly oxygen drop and the dead fish. Normally I just tend to let water into it by the inlet pipe as there is a syphon action going on with the external filter but I didn't do this when I last did the water change. |
#6
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CO2 was about 1 bubble per second or so, ph was about 6.5. Although the test kit I have doesn't really measure that accurately in terms of range my ph indicator I have permanently setup showed nothing untoward. You said you increased CO2 - what was the pH before Saturday? (i.e. how quickly did you change the CO2/pH?) pH 6.5 too low to get much effective buffering from just KH - if you're injecting CO2 by bubble count vs. pH controller, you might possibly have gotten a big pH swing (especially when the plants stopped photosynthesizing). I'm guessing in the dark, but a large, quick pH swing could have killed off at least a portion of the bacteria in the filter. The extra organics thus released could cause a bacterial bloom of other, more pH tolerant bacteria, using up oxygen. My tap water has always been ok bar a high level of phosphate, which I use rowaphos to remove, I'm thinking the rowaphos suddenly released all the phosphate it had stored up due to it being totally saturated and used up, I've heard that can happen. So is the rowaphos actually in your tank? If so, a large pH change might (I'm not familiar with the product) cause it to change it's phosphate absorbing properties and release the phosphate. (Although I can't think off the top of my head how a phosphate spike would deplete oxygen, unless there was an algae bloom - was the tank white cloudy or green cloudy?) |
#7
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Neil Woodman wrote:
Nikki Casali wrote: Neil Woodman wrote: Hi, If wonder if any of you guys could help me. I did my usual 30% water change on Saturday night, I got in on sunday to find all of my tetras swimming near the surface gasping for air, the only thing I had done differently was increase the CO2 slightly. Then I noticed some bleeding heart tetras were dead, and then I noticed some shrimp going a bit strange darting up to the surface and back down again. Suddenly all the fish started to die in front of my eyes! There was obviously no oxygen in the water so I added a powerhead to create some surface agitation and did a 50% water change. The tank has now gone really cloudy and I've lost most of my tetras and shrimp, there are only some ottos, a 4 tetras, a rabble of shrimp and one ram which is hard as nails left alive. So this morning I rushed to my local aquatic shop. He asked me if the water had gone cloudy after I explained what happened and it had, so he then said it was a breakdown in the filter which has caused all the bacteria to go into the water, which had in turn suffocated all the fish, he recommended doing a big water change which I had already done and recommended I use some filter aid to clump together the particles to filter them out faster, I cant remember exactly what he said but it was along those lines. Can you guys explain what might have happened and why? This has never happened to me before and I've been keeping fish for a long time, to suddenly see them dying in front of my eyes has been a harrowing experience. I use an external filter and pressurised CO2, I dont know if that's anything to do with it, the tank is heavily planted. I'm very sad about what has happened. Do you have any idea what the CO2 level was or the pH? Is the change water straight from the tap and do you allow the water to stand to allow noxious gasses to dissipate? My tap water contains high amounts of CO2 etc. Why do you do large water changes? A breakdown in the filter causes all the bacteria to go into the water? I don't think so. The bacteria are already in the water. Did your filter jam up? You didn't make this clear. Nikki Hi, Thanks for that. CO2 was about 1 bubble per second or so, ph was about 6.5. What are your KH and GH? What size is your tank? I presume you live in the north of UK where water is softer? I live in London. A pH of 6.5 for London water would indicate dangerous levels of CO2. I bubble 2 a second. This is enough for my 330L tank to reach a pH of 7.25 from 8.1 with masses of plants. Although the test kit I have doesn't really measure that accurately in terms of range my ph indicator I have permanently setup showed nothing untoward. My tap water has always been ok bar a high level of phosphate, which I use rowaphos to remove, I'm thinking the rowaphos suddenly released all the phosphate it had stored up due to it being totally saturated and used up, I've heard that can happen. Rowaphos state that releasing all its contents is something it does not or cannot do. I've used Rowaphos in the past with no trouble. There seems to be nothing wrong with the filter but the water has gone really cloudy, I have 4 fish left which are still alive but my shrimp are perched on top of the inside edge of the tank, literally out of the water! They don't look too happy either. My shrimp hate water changes. They go berserk, especially if the water has come from the copper hot water cylinder. I have always done large water changes as I do about 30% per week, is this wrong? It really depends on the compatibility of your tap water with settled tank water. My tap water comes out at 7.2 pH. My non-CO2 injected tank stays at 8.1 pH. So if I'm making big changes to that tank I allow the water to dissipate its CO2 by bubbling with an air stone until the pH is closer. Just a guess, but if your tap water contained a high level of CO2 and you changed the CO2 bubble rate at the same time this combination could have given your tank pH a kick to a dangerous lower level. Regarding pouring dechlorinated tap water into your external filter. I'd never do it. This could possibly have had the effect you see. Nikki |
#8
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Nikki Casali wrote:
Neil Woodman wrote: Nikki Casali wrote: Neil Woodman wrote: Hi, If wonder if any of you guys could help me. I did my usual 30% water change on Saturday night, I got in on sunday to find all of my tetras swimming near the surface gasping for air, the only thing I had done differently was increase the CO2 slightly. Then I noticed some bleeding heart tetras were dead, and then I noticed some shrimp going a bit strange darting up to the surface and back down again. Suddenly all the fish started to die in front of my eyes! There was obviously no oxygen in the water so I added a powerhead to create some surface agitation and did a 50% water change. The tank has now gone really cloudy and I've lost most of my tetras and shrimp, there are only some ottos, a 4 tetras, a rabble of shrimp and one ram which is hard as nails left alive. So this morning I rushed to my local aquatic shop. He asked me if the water had gone cloudy after I explained what happened and it had, so he then said it was a breakdown in the filter which has caused all the bacteria to go into the water, which had in turn suffocated all the fish, he recommended doing a big water change which I had already done and recommended I use some filter aid to clump together the particles to filter them out faster, I cant remember exactly what he said but it was along those lines. Can you guys explain what might have happened and why? This has never happened to me before and I've been keeping fish for a long time, to suddenly see them dying in front of my eyes has been a harrowing experience. I use an external filter and pressurised CO2, I dont know if that's anything to do with it, the tank is heavily planted. I'm very sad about what has happened. Do you have any idea what the CO2 level was or the pH? Is the change water straight from the tap and do you allow the water to stand to allow noxious gasses to dissipate? My tap water contains high amounts of CO2 etc. Why do you do large water changes? A breakdown in the filter causes all the bacteria to go into the water? I don't think so. The bacteria are already in the water. Did your filter jam up? You didn't make this clear. Nikki Hi, Thanks for that. CO2 was about 1 bubble per second or so, ph was about 6.5. What are your KH and GH? What size is your tank? I presume you live in the north of UK where water is softer? I live in London. A pH of 6.5 for London water would indicate dangerous levels of CO2. I bubble 2 a second. This is enough for my 330L tank to reach a pH of 7.25 from 8.1 with masses of plants. Although the test kit I have doesn't really measure that accurately in terms of range my ph indicator I have permanently setup showed nothing untoward. My tap water has always been ok bar a high level of phosphate, which I use rowaphos to remove, I'm thinking the rowaphos suddenly released all the phosphate it had stored up due to it being totally saturated and used up, I've heard that can happen. Rowaphos state that releasing all its contents is something it does not or cannot do. I've used Rowaphos in the past with no trouble. There seems to be nothing wrong with the filter but the water has gone really cloudy, I have 4 fish left which are still alive but my shrimp are perched on top of the inside edge of the tank, literally out of the water! They don't look too happy either. My shrimp hate water changes. They go berserk, especially if the water has come from the copper hot water cylinder. I have always done large water changes as I do about 30% per week, is this wrong? It really depends on the compatibility of your tap water with settled tank water. My tap water comes out at 7.2 pH. My non-CO2 injected tank stays at 8.1 pH. So if I'm making big changes to that tank I allow the water to dissipate its CO2 by bubbling with an air stone until the pH is closer. Just a guess, but if your tap water contained a high level of CO2 and you changed the CO2 bubble rate at the same time this combination could have given your tank pH a kick to a dangerous lower level. Regarding pouring dechlorinated tap water into your external filter. I'd never do it. This could possibly have had the effect you see. Nikki It seems odd, its not as if I washed the filter media in tapwater which I would never do but I wouldn't think that pouring a little dechlorniated water into the filter would cause all the bacteria in it to be destroyed, its really confusing I have never had a problem like this before, even using pressurised CO2 increasing and decreasing it in the past has never caused a problem at all. Thanks for your advice anyway I will just have to wait and see what happens over the next few days. How long do you think it will take to fix? |
#9
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On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 14:47:12 +0100, Neil Woodman
wrote: Graham Ramsay wrote: "Neil Woodman" wrote There seems to be nothing wrong with the filter but the water has gone really cloudy, I have 4 fish left which are still alive but my shrimp are perched on top of the inside edge of the tank, literally out of the water! They don't look too happy either. I have always done large water changes as I do about 30% per week, is this wrong? It does sound like your filter has died off for some reason. Do you have high nitrite or ammonia levels? 30% weekly is fine. -- Graham Ramsay Fair City Aquarist Society What I think is that when I filled my filter cannister up, (its external) I used fresh water from the tap which I did dechlorinate but maybe that has killed off the bacteria in the filter and caused it to go anerobic, that would explain the suddenly oxygen drop and the dead fish. Normally I just tend to let water into it by the inlet pipe as there is a syphon action going on with the external filter but I didn't do this when I last did the water change. Filling the filter with tab water will kill everything in it. That for sure will cause your tank water go bad. You need to add something to help it cycle again. AND to put something to remove the amo right now! Otherwise all you fish will die |
#10
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"fish lover" wrote in message
... On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 14:47:12 +0100, Neil Woodman wrote: Graham Ramsay wrote: "Neil Woodman" wrote There seems to be nothing wrong with the filter but the water has gone really cloudy, I have 4 fish left which are still alive but my shrimp are perched on top of the inside edge of the tank, literally out of the water! They don't look too happy either. I have always done large water changes as I do about 30% per week, is this wrong? It does sound like your filter has died off for some reason. Do you have high nitrite or ammonia levels? 30% weekly is fine. -- Graham Ramsay Fair City Aquarist Society What I think is that when I filled my filter cannister up, (its external) I used fresh water from the tap which I did dechlorinate but maybe that has killed off the bacteria in the filter and caused it to go anerobic, that would explain the suddenly oxygen drop and the dead fish. Normally I just tend to let water into it by the inlet pipe as there is a syphon action going on with the external filter but I didn't do this when I last did the water change. Filling the filter with tab water will kill everything in it. That for sure will cause your tank water go bad. You need to add something to help it cycle again. AND to put something to remove the amo right now! Otherwise all you fish will die Why would *dechlorinated* tap water kill "everything"? I use dechlorinated (actually dechloramineinated ... probably not a word... g) tap water all the tap in my tanks. What else would you fill the tanks up with when topping off?? One possibility is that the OP's water system might have changed from chlorine to chloramines. That can be deadly to fish if you're only treating for chlorine. It might be worth a call to his local water utility. Gail Southcentral TX USA |
#11
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I clean my canister in water straight from the tap, have done so as long as
I have had aquariums and that is a long time! The water is chlorinated. Doesn't take long for the bacteria to build up anyway in an established tank. I don't refill it with chlorinated water though, I use water from the aquarium to do that. I can't believe your problem has anything to do with your filter. |
#12
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glenner003 wrote:
Neil Woodman" wrote in message ... Hi, If wonder if any of you guys could help me. I did my usual 30% water change on Saturday night, I got in on sunday to find all of my tetras swimming near the surface gasping for air, the only thing I had done differently was increase the CO2 slightly. Then I noticed some bleeding heart tetras were dead, and then I noticed some shrimp going a bit strange darting up to the surface and back down again. Suddenly all the fish started to die in front of my eyes! There was obviously no oxygen in the water so I added a powerhead to create some surface agitation and did a 50% water change. The tank has now gone really cloudy and I've lost most of my tetras and shrimp, there are only some ottos, a 4 tetras, a rabble of shrimp and one ram which is hard as nails left alive. So this morning I rushed to my local aquatic shop. He asked me if the water had gone cloudy after I explained what happened and it had, so he then said it was a breakdown in the filter which has caused all the bacteria to go into the water, which had in turn suffocated all the fish, he recommended doing a big water change which I had already done and recommended I use some filter aid to clump together the particles to filter them out faster, I cant remember exactly what he said but it was along those lines. Can you guys explain what might have happened and why? This has never happened to me before and I've been keeping fish for a long time, to suddenly see them dying in front of my eyes has been a harrowing experience. I use an external filter and pressurised CO2, I dont know if that's anything to do with it, the tank is heavily planted. Thanks, Neil Hello Neil, AFAIK An increase of CO2 implies a decrease of oxigen. "Is It Possible to Overdose With CO2? Will My Fish Suffocate? It is not likely that you will overdose the tank with a DIY system. It just doesn't produce that much CO2. However, it is wise to monitor the pH and the reactions of the fish for the first few days. If the pH drops too low, you may not have enough buffering or you may be providing too much CO2 for the size of your tank. The plants should produce enough oxygen to provide plenty for your fish. However, if you should notice them gasping at the surface, particularly in the morning, the oxygen may have been depleted overnight and you will be wise to add an airstone at night to aerate the water. This is rarely necessary, but do monitor for it at first. Early morning is the best time to check for pH changes, as it will be at its lowest at this time. Note: CO2 does NOT displace O2 and cause suffocation. The two concentrations are independent of one another." http://www.tropicalfishcentre.co.uk/Diyco2.htm Nikki |
#13
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Neil Woodman wrote:
Hi, If wonder if any of you guys could help me. I did my usual 30% water change on Saturday night, I got in on sunday to find all of my tetras swimming near the surface gasping for air, the only thing I had done differently was increase the CO2 slightly. Then I noticed some bleeding heart tetras were dead, and then I noticed some shrimp going a bit strange darting up to the surface and back down again. Suddenly all the fish started to die in front of my eyes! There was obviously no oxygen in the water so I added a powerhead to create some surface agitation and did a 50% water change. The tank has now gone really cloudy and I've lost most of my tetras and shrimp, there are only some ottos, a 4 tetras, a rabble of shrimp and one ram which is hard as nails left alive. So this morning I rushed to my local aquatic shop. He asked me if the water had gone cloudy after I explained what happened and it had, so he then said it was a breakdown in the filter which has caused all the bacteria to go into the water, which had in turn suffocated all the fish, he recommended doing a big water change which I had already done and recommended I use some filter aid to clump together the particles to filter them out faster, I cant remember exactly what he said but it was along those lines. Can you guys explain what might have happened and why? This has never happened to me before and I've been keeping fish for a long time, to suddenly see them dying in front of my eyes has been a harrowing experience. I use an external filter and pressurised CO2, I dont know if that's anything to do with it, the tank is heavily planted. Thanks, Neil Thanks for your help on this guys, seriously I am really quite amazed at the response I've had and the helpful advice I;ve been given. I added some cycle to the tank and now 2 days later its pretty clear again and the fish seem good, a few shrimp have returned to their duties already. I'm wondering if I should do a small water change now what do you think? Neil |
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