Ok, I have a big problem with this. For years I have been trying to get
Nitrates down (in smaller tanks) could not get rid of the stuff.

Now I have a 250l tank with enough light and CO2 injection and a 100%
Fluorite substrate. I now find that my Nitrates and Phosphates are low (well
actually 0 and 0.25 respectively).

I find from posts I have read here - that I should be dosing with Nitrates
to get the plants to grow.......this is a jedi mind trick right!!!

OK, so if I have to put the bloody stuff back in......then....

What should I use?
How much? (for a 250l tank)
Can I get it pre-packed from a store (initially - until I get the confidence
to make it myself).....
and more to the Point WHY do I have to?......I thought that by buying
Fluorite - the plants would have all they need straight from the soil.....I
am loathed to put stuff into the water. In my opinion that is just asking
for algae.

I have Cabomba, Heteranthera, Vallis, Sagittaria, Eleocharis, 2 Echinodorus
Harbich

Thanks in advance

Martin - I can't believe I am actually trying to put Nitrates back into an
aquarium!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is mad - right.

http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_p...osage_calc.htm

--
Remove NOSPAM for email replies
"Martin" wrote in message
...
Ok, I have a big problem with this. For years I have been trying to get
Nitrates down (in smaller tanks) could not get rid of the stuff.

Now I have a 250l tank with enough light and CO2 injection and a 100%
Fluorite substrate. I now find that my Nitrates and Phosphates are low (well
actually 0 and 0.25 respectively).

I find from posts I have read here - that I should be dosing with Nitrates
to get the plants to grow.......this is a jedi mind trick right!!!

OK, so if I have to put the bloody stuff back in......then....

What should I use?
How much? (for a 250l tank)
Can I get it pre-packed from a store (initially - until I get the confidence
to make it myself).....
and more to the Point WHY do I have to?......I thought that by buying
Fluorite - the plants would have all they need straight from the soil.....I
am loathed to put stuff into the water. In my opinion that is just asking
for algae.

I have Cabomba, Heteranthera, Vallis, Sagittaria, Eleocharis, 2 Echinodorus
Harbich

Thanks in advance

Martin - I can't believe I am actually trying to put Nitrates back into an
aquarium!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is mad - right.

Martin,
I'm still learning a lot of this too, but yes you actually do want some
nitrates (5-10 ppm) in a planted tank. The plants use the nitrates for
growth. I've found that Flourish nitrogen will do the trick. In fact I am
having a lot better luck with the Flourish nitrogen then I was with the
source of potassium nitrate I had originally found. Although I'm hoping to
find another source as Flourish nitrogen is about $7.00 in my area for a
100ml bottle. If you want more info on plant fertilization have a look at
some of the writings at http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Fertilizer/

Good luck,
Ron

"Martin" wrote in message
...
Ok, I have a big problem with this. For years I have been trying to get
Nitrates down (in smaller tanks) could not get rid of the stuff.

Now I have a 250l tank with enough light and CO2 injection and a 100%
Fluorite substrate. I now find that my Nitrates and Phosphates are low
(well
actually 0 and 0.25 respectively).

I find from posts I have read here - that I should be dosing with Nitrates
to get the plants to grow.......this is a jedi mind trick right!!!

OK, so if I have to put the bloody stuff back in......then....

What should I use?
How much? (for a 250l tank)
Can I get it pre-packed from a store (initially - until I get the
confidence
to make it myself).....
and more to the Point WHY do I have to?......I thought that by buying
Fluorite - the plants would have all they need straight from the
soil.....I
am loathed to put stuff into the water. In my opinion that is just asking
for algae.

I have Cabomba, Heteranthera, Vallis, Sagittaria, Eleocharis, 2
Echinodorus
Harbich

Thanks in advance

Martin - I can't believe I am actually trying to put Nitrates back into an
aquarium!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is mad - right.

Here it is, water column fertilizers, nice, proven and simple:

Nitrates:
--------
Use dry Green Stump Remover.
$5 bottle from WallMart (garder section) will last you forever.

Guideline:
CAUTION! POISON! Don't use spoons and containers used to mix that
chemical for anything else.
Mix 1 heaping teaspoon of the dry powder in 4 ounces of water.
10 ml. of the above solution will raise the Nitrates in a 55 gal. tank
about 5 ppm.

If you want - find Chuck Gadds site on detailed instructions how to
mix that an other chemicals.


Phosphate:
----------
Use Fleet Enema - $0.99 in any drug store.
Yes, I said enema.
Use carefully - it's very concentrated!
6 drops of that in a 55 gal. tank raises the Phosphates about 0.5 ppm


Potassium:
---------
"No Salt" - $2.00 or so for a container that will last forever.
Found in any grocery store.
Mix right before use. It spoils quickly.
Chuck Gadd's site talks about making a solution (the "No Salt" is
KCl).


Traces:
--------
Got to buy these from an aquarium place.
Might need to add on a daily bases - they seem to break down or get
used up very fast.
This is a good online store for Traces:
http://www.yamatogreen.com/


Fe:
--------
Got to buy that from an aquarium place.
Might need to add Fe on a daily bases - Fe does break down or gets
used up very fast.
Dosing once a week may not work.
This is a good online store for Fe:
http://www.yamatogreen.com/



This article by Tom Barr is very much all you need to read:
http://www.sfbaaps.com/reference/barr_02_02.shtml



All of the above are water column fertilizers.
You may need substrate fertilizers (you burry them in the gravel) for
some plants.
Ask other people about them, I don't know much about substrate
fertilizers.

--Nikolay

Thanks a whole bunch..... I did find Chuck Gadds site, and it's
bookmarked....

and yes, I've bid on Dominics auction on aquabid....


"nikolay_kraltchev" wrote in message
om...
Here it is, water column fertilizers, nice, proven and simple:

Nitrates:
--------
Use dry Green Stump Remover.
$5 bottle from WallMart (garder section) will last you forever.

Guideline:
CAUTION! POISON! Don't use spoons and containers used to mix that
chemical for anything else.
Mix 1 heaping teaspoon of the dry powder in 4 ounces of water.
10 ml. of the above solution will raise the Nitrates in a 55 gal. tank
about 5 ppm.

If you want - find Chuck Gadds site on detailed instructions how to
mix that an other chemicals.


Phosphate:
----------
Use Fleet Enema - $0.99 in any drug store.
Yes, I said enema.
Use carefully - it's very concentrated!
6 drops of that in a 55 gal. tank raises the Phosphates about 0.5 ppm


Potassium:
---------
"No Salt" - $2.00 or so for a container that will last forever.
Found in any grocery store.
Mix right before use. It spoils quickly.
Chuck Gadd's site talks about making a solution (the "No Salt" is
KCl).


Traces:
--------
Got to buy these from an aquarium place.
Might need to add on a daily bases - they seem to break down or get
used up very fast.
This is a good online store for Traces:
http://www.yamatogreen.com/


Fe:
--------
Got to buy that from an aquarium place.
Might need to add Fe on a daily bases - Fe does break down or gets
used up very fast.
Dosing once a week may not work.
This is a good online store for Fe:
http://www.yamatogreen.com/



This article by Tom Barr is very much all you need to read:
http://www.sfbaaps.com/reference/barr_02_02.shtml



All of the above are water column fertilizers.
You may need substrate fertilizers (you burry them in the gravel) for
some plants.
Ask other people about them, I don't know much about substrate
fertilizers.

--Nikolay

I was not seeing any measurable results from my potassium nitrate source. It
was stump remover but it only said it contained potassium nitrate and didn't
give a list of ingredients or percentages, so I was more than a little leery
about just dumping it into my tank until I got the results I was looking
for. I'll get a reliable source and switch back. But in the mean time the
Flourish Nitrogen is working well...

Ron

"LeighMo" wrote in message
...
In fact I am
having a lot better luck with the Flourish nitrogen then I was with the
source of potassium nitrate I had originally found.

Wow, I didn't realize Seachem made a nitrogen supplement. But it's on
their
front page now, along with Flourish Phosphorus. It's about time.

Why do you like Flourish Nitrogen better than potassium nitrate?


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

Martin,

To answer your question straight away, shoot for a 3 - 5 ppm concentration
of nitrate in the water column. More and your fish might be affected.
Higher plants need nitrogen (from nitrate) to survive. When you have plants
and can't measure nitrate in the water, you are seeing a condition where
your plants have scavenged all the available nitrates. While that seems
good, it means that nitrogen is the limiting macronutrient. With no more
nitrogen, the plants stop photosynthesizing. That's not good, since
phosphorous is probably still available, and though it might be available in
small amounts (ie 0.25, ppm I assume), that's still enough to cause algae
problems.

Nitrogen (N) is a macronutrient required by aquatic plants, as are potassium
(K) and phosporous (P). Phosphorous can be a problem child, and an excess
amount of phosporous in the water column will create algae and cyanobacteria
outbreaks. What's interesting is that some algae (specifically blue green
algae (cyanobacteria)) can fix nitrogen from the atmosphere. So it can
thrive with very little or no available nitrogen in the water. Higher
plants require lots of nitrogen to survive but far less phosphorous; just
look at recommended nitrogen to phosphorous (N:P) ratios for higher plants
(it ranges from 10:1 to 16:1; all this is from the Krib website). Higher
plants are more efficient at photosynthesis, so with enough nutrients they
can outcompete the primitive algaes. Cyanobacteria, on the other hand, can
survive with very low N:P ratios (probably less than 3:1). Given the
nitrogen fixing ability of Cyano. (higher aquatic plants can't do that), you
have a recipe for outbreak if your nitrate levels read 0.

By dosing with nitrate, you provide a small surplus of nitrogen for your
plants. True, the algae will use it too, but the plants consume it much
faster (hence the higher N:P ratio). As long as they have nitrogen (and
potassium and micronutrients too), they consume phosporous, and that's the
whole idea. You want to have the higher plants strip the excess phosphorous
from the tank so the algae can't get it. If you have algae, adding nitrates
(and anything else your plants need, including light and CO2) will cause the
algae to starve.

To sum things up: aquatic plants need light, CO2, macro (N, P, K) and
micronutrients (Fe, Mg, Ca, etc) in sufficient quantities AND proportions so
that the elements that can cause problems (most notably phosphorous) are the
limiting element to photosynthesis.

I use potassium nitrate (off the shelf stump remover here in the US) for my
nitrate additive. You can buy lab grade stuff at a scientific supply
company, but keep in mind KNO3 is an oxidizing agent and could be used to
make explosives. I used to mix KNO3 with powdered aluminum to make my own
fireworks way back when I was a boy.

For potassium, I also add K2SO4 (potassium sulfate). This is "pure"
gardening potash, and the sulfates provide sulfer for the plants. This
should all be familiar from PMDD recipes found at the Krib website.

Hope this helps,

Jeff
Raleigh, NC USA



"Martin" wrote in message
...
Ok, I have a big problem with this. For years I have been trying to get
Nitrates down (in smaller tanks) could not get rid of the stuff.

Now I have a 250l tank with enough light and CO2 injection and a 100%
Fluorite substrate. I now find that my Nitrates and Phosphates are low
(well
actually 0 and 0.25 respectively).

I find from posts I have read here - that I should be dosing with Nitrates
to get the plants to grow.......this is a jedi mind trick right!!!

OK, so if I have to put the bloody stuff back in......then....

What should I use?
How much? (for a 250l tank)
Can I get it pre-packed from a store (initially - until I get the
confidence
to make it myself).....
and more to the Point WHY do I have to?......I thought that by buying
Fluorite - the plants would have all they need straight from the
soil.....I
am loathed to put stuff into the water. In my opinion that is just asking
for algae.

I have Cabomba, Heteranthera, Vallis, Sagittaria, Eleocharis, 2
Echinodorus
Harbich

Thanks in advance

Martin - I can't believe I am actually trying to put Nitrates back into an
aquarium!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is mad - right.

That was very comprehensive thanks a lot - much appreciated.

"Jeffrey Girard" wrote in message
om...

Thanks a lot - I think I will try Flourish first (if I can get it in the
UK)....and venture into the realm of dosing, at my leisure....

"LeighMo" wrote in message
...
What's your reccommendations LeighMo - w.r.t. which type of dosing is
best ?

I've never tried Flourish Nitrogen, but I'm curious about it. (They claim
"Flourish NitrogenT is a concentrated (15,000 mg/L) blend of nitrogen
sources.
It provides nitrogen in both the nitrate form and the plant-preferred
ammonium
form. However, no free ammonia is released because the ammonium in
Flourish
NitrogenT is complexed and unavailable until utilized by the plants.
Flourish
NitrogenT also provides nitrate for those plants that can readily utilize
nitrate as well." Probably just marketing B.S., but I want to try it
anyway.
:-)

Right now, I use plain old potassium nitrate, bought from a chemical
supply
house. Being too lazy to mix up a solution, I use the Tom Barr method: I
just
dump the dry powder into the tank, a quarter teaspoon at a time. I also
use
Jobe's spikes and root tabs that contain nitrate.


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

What's your reccommendations LeighMo - w.r.t. which type of dosing is best ?

I've never tried Flourish Nitrogen, but I'm curious about it. (They claim
"Flourish Nitrogen™ is a concentrated (15,000 mg/L) blend of nitrogen sources.
It provides nitrogen in both the nitrate form and the plant-preferred ammonium
form. However, no free ammonia is released because the ammonium in Flourish
Nitrogen™ is complexed and unavailable until utilized by the plants. Flourish
Nitrogen™ also provides nitrate for those plants that can readily utilize
nitrate as well." Probably just marketing B.S., but I want to try it anyway.
:-)

Right now, I use plain old potassium nitrate, bought from a chemical supply
house. Being too lazy to mix up a solution, I use the Tom Barr method: I just
dump the dry powder into the tank, a quarter teaspoon at a time. I also use
Jobe's spikes and root tabs that contain nitrate.


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/