Yes, another question ...
When starting a planted tank with a few fish. How much aeration do I
need? I want to minimize surface turbulence to keep the injected DIY
CO2 in the tank.

I am using a canister filter. When I make the spray bar move the water
without disturbing the surface I get bubbles and some living things
floating at the surface. When I move the surface around, the stuff seem
to disappear.

Also... do you recommend surface movement to introduce more oxygen in
the water for the bacteria colony to grow?

I shouldn't think O2 would be a problem unless the tank is sparsely
planted or heavily stocked. Plenty of O2 comes in with each water
change and supplements whatever O2 the plants produce.

Lastly, "in my tank" I try to keep the surface agitation to a minimum.
I typically keep the water level, right up to the output of the HOB
filter, so the agitation is essentially none. The tank is moderately
stocked/planted with pearling common especially in the 1-2 days
following a water change. Pearling indicates O2 saturation of the
water, right? YMMV

I'd not worry about it until you notice your fish hanging out near the
surface of the water. Besides, I have always wondered if you can run an
air stone inline with the return water. People do it all the time with
CO2,,,,,, wouldn't O2 dissolve into the water just as readily? A simple
fix.

Just a thought. Good Luck.

http://www.geocities.com/spiral_72/home.html

What is "pearling"?

Thanks,
Dave

"spiral_72" wrote in message
oups.com...
The tank is moderately
stocked/planted with pearling common especially in the 1-2 days
following a water change. Pearling indicates O2 saturation of the
water, right? YMMV

Pearling means bubbles of gas sitting on the surface of the plant.

In this case, it refers to a situation when the water is saturated with
oxygen and the additional oxygen produced by the plants does not
dissolve in the water anymore. Then, you can see the bubbles of oxygen
sitting on the plant.

But if you get this in the first two days of water change, this is more
likely to be all the gas dissolved in your tap water.

I'm not an expert at this so correct me if I'm wrong.

Shorty wrote:
Yes, another question ...
When starting a planted tank with a few fish. How much aeration do I
need? I want to minimize surface turbulence to keep the injected DIY
CO2 in the tank.

I am using a canister filter. When I make the spray bar move the water
without disturbing the surface I get bubbles and some living things
floating at the surface. When I move the surface around, the stuff seem
to disappear.

You need enough to keep your fish from gilling hard and/or gasping at
the surface in the middle of the night when oxygen demand is highest and
production lowest. Gently surface movement is also nice to prevent
surface "scum" from forming.

--
Elaine T __
http://eethomp.com/fish.html '__
rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com

"Shorty" wrote in message
oups.com...
Pearling means bubbles of gas sitting on the surface of the plant.

In this case, it refers to a situation when the water is saturated with
oxygen and the additional oxygen produced by the plants does not
dissolve in the water anymore. Then, you can see the bubbles of oxygen
sitting on the plant.

But if you get this in the first two days of water change, this is more
likely to be all the gas dissolved in your tap water.

I'm not an expert at this so correct me if I'm wrong.
=========================
I believe you are correct. The plants pearl on sunny days in my betta tanks
on a sunny windowsill.
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
Troll Information:
http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

Koi-lo wrote:
"Shorty" wrote in message
oups.com...
Pearling means bubbles of gas sitting on the surface of the plant.

In this case, it refers to a situation when the water is saturated with
oxygen and the additional oxygen produced by the plants does not
dissolve in the water anymore. Then, you can see the bubbles of oxygen
sitting on the plant.

But if you get this in the first two days of water change, this is more
likely to be all the gas dissolved in your tap water.

I'm not an expert at this so correct me if I'm wrong.
=========================
I believe you are correct. The plants pearl on sunny days in my betta tanks
on a sunny windowsill.
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
Troll Information:
http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

=========================
I believe you are correct. The plants pearl on sunny days in my betta
tanks
on a sunny windowsill.

Tanks???
You have them in tiny little bowls. Those are not tanks.

"Tynk" wrote in message
ups.com...

Koi-lo wrote:
"Shorty" wrote in message
oups.com...
Pearling means bubbles of gas sitting on the surface of the plant.

In this case, it refers to a situation when the water is saturated with
oxygen and the additional oxygen produced by the plants does not
dissolve in the water anymore. Then, you can see the bubbles of oxygen
sitting on the plant.

But if you get this in the first two days of water change, this is more
likely to be all the gas dissolved in your tap water.

I'm not an expert at this so correct me if I'm wrong.
=========================
I believe you are correct. The plants pearl on sunny days in my betta
tanks
on a sunny windowsill.
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
Troll Information:
http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

=========================
I believe you are correct. The plants pearl on sunny days in my betta
tanks
on a sunny windowsill.

Tanks???
You have them in tiny little bowls. Those are not tanks.
======================
Check my new aquarium webpage. BTW do you keep your bettas with gravel and
plants? My bettas have always had gravel and plants. It's cruel to keep
them any other way as I'm sure you agree. How do you make sure everyone who
buys your bettas provides them with live plants and gravel?
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
Troll Information:
http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

Koi-lo wrote:
"Tynk" wrote in message
ups.com...

Koi-lo wrote:
"Shorty" wrote in message
oups.com...
Pearling means bubbles of gas sitting on the surface of the plant.

In this case, it refers to a situation when the water is saturated with
oxygen and the additional oxygen produced by the plants does not
dissolve in the water anymore. Then, you can see the bubbles of oxygen
sitting on the plant.

But if you get this in the first two days of water change, this is more
likely to be all the gas dissolved in your tap water.

I'm not an expert at this so correct me if I'm wrong.
=========================
I believe you are correct. The plants pearl on sunny days in my betta
tanks
on a sunny windowsill.
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
Troll Information:
http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

=========================
I believe you are correct. The plants pearl on sunny days in my betta
tanks
on a sunny windowsill.

Tanks???
You have them in tiny little bowls. Those are not tanks.
======================
Check my new aquarium webpage. BTW do you keep your bettas with gravel and
plants? My bettas have always had gravel and plants. It's cruel to keep
them any other way as I'm sure you agree. How do you make sure everyone who
buys your bettas provides them with live plants and gravel?
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
Troll Information:
http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

Tanks???
You have them in tiny little bowls. Those are not tanks.
======================
Check my new aquarium webpage. BTW do you keep your bettas with gravel and
plants? My bettas have always had gravel and plants. It's cruel to keep
them any other way as I'm sure you agree. How do you make sure everyone who
buys your bettas provides them with live plants and gravel?

I checked your page as you suggest and I was so happy to see that most
of them are in larger containers. Good job. = ) And I mean that.

Yes, I agree on the plants, however gravel is not an absolute
necessity, nor is it cruel not to have gravel. It's simply asthetic to
the keeper's eye, brings out better coloring in any fish (one of the
reasons I use gravel in all my tanks except spawning tanks), and
creates more surfaces for the nitrifying bacteria to grow on.
It's not going to harm the fish not to have gravel in it's tank
though...it's just better in my personal opinion, but isn't being cruel
if they don't have it.
Yes...my single Betta tanks have plants....mostly baby Java fern shoots
and when they grow too large I simply plant them in one of the larger
tanks.
These Java ferns sprout so many baby plants (worse than a Spider
plant!) that I always have a ton to go around.
They're also great for the spawning and fry growing tanks (the baby
plants).
I must say again, I am so happy that you have given your male Bettas
the larger containers. You did right by them and didn't even say (or
did you a while back when I was off line due to my neck surgery).
Again, good job! = )

Koi-lo wrote:
"Tynk" wrote in message
ups.com...

Koi-lo wrote:
"Shorty" wrote in message
oups.com...
Pearling means bubbles of gas sitting on the surface of the plant.

In this case, it refers to a situation when the water is saturated with
oxygen and the additional oxygen produced by the plants does not
dissolve in the water anymore. Then, you can see the bubbles of oxygen
sitting on the plant.

But if you get this in the first two days of water change, this is more
likely to be all the gas dissolved in your tap water.

I'm not an expert at this so correct me if I'm wrong.
=========================
I believe you are correct. The plants pearl on sunny days in my betta
tanks
on a sunny windowsill.
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
Troll Information:
http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

=========================
I believe you are correct. The plants pearl on sunny days in my betta
tanks
on a sunny windowsill.

Tanks???
You have them in tiny little bowls. Those are not tanks.
======================
Check my new aquarium webpage. BTW do you keep your bettas with gravel and
plants? My bettas have always had gravel and plants. It's cruel to keep
them any other way as I'm sure you agree. How do you make sure everyone who
buys your bettas provides them with live plants and gravel?
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
Troll Information:
http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o
How do you make sure everyone who
buys your bettas provides them with live plants and gravel?

Sorry, I forgot you had asked this question..I was so excited about
your boy's larger housing that I totally forgot you asked about this.
When I gave to people, they were either neighbors, friends, etc andf I
hardly ever charged them. However, word of mouth people that came to
buy I charged a very nomimal fee and it was usually less than what the
current price at the shops were.
I would ask them about what size tank they would be going into, as well
as explain the proper care if they didn't already know.
When I was breeding with regularity (yrs ago), it wasn't like it is
now. Bettas were given proper care and kept in tanks with common
community fish. People hardly ever kept them in small bowls. Of course
some did. However, it really wasn't the norm, nor were they even near
as popular. Not even close! NetMax probably remembers this, as well as
other old time hobbyists who have been in the hobby as long or longer
than I have. ( since the 1970's).
If somebody were to tell me that they wanted to keep it in a little
bowl I would simply deny them the fish. Plain and simple.
Folks who didn't already know the proper care were educated.
Heck..back then I the smallest tank I can remember there being were the
AllGlass 2 1/2 gallon ones. Not sure on if they were out in the 70's,
as I used 5g's back then for tiny tanks.
How about anyone else...I can't remember.
Back then people didn't have these tiny tanks to choose from or those
horrible contaptions they're selling for Bettas these days. Those clear
plastic things that have an area that's almost a V shape in the middle
for the Betta to be housed in. It holds like a couple/few ounces of
water. These things are horribly cruel. I even stopped going to one of
the local shops because he started selling these things. He got all
excited when I walked in one day and couldn't wait to show me these new
Betta "tanks".
I did one of these faces...= O
I said..I can't believe you are selling such cruel things and walked
out.
He knew better too. He's a local shop trying to compete with the chains
around him and I'm sorry, but he could have done better than that.
There's many 1g set ups with even a light that he could have sold for
less money than he was selling these torture chambers for.
I will say some of these things are getting a little better.
Some have gotten to be a gallon or more and have these mini power
filters and some even have mini fluorescent lights above them. Those
are ok in a constantly warm house or for somebody in a warm climate.
(when talking Bettas that is)
But a couple/few ounces of water? Horrible.

"Tynk" wrote in message
oups.com...

Koi-lo wrote:
..
Check my new aquarium webpage. BTW do you keep your bettas with gravel
and
plants? My bettas have always had gravel and plants. It's cruel to
keep
them any other way as I'm sure you agree. How do you make sure everyone
who
buys your bettas provides them with live plants and gravel?
======================
I checked your page as you suggest and I was so happy to see that most
of them are in larger containers. Good job. = ) And I mean that.

All were less than $1 on 1/2 price day down at the Goodwill Store. :-)

Yes, I agree on the plants, however gravel is not an absolute
necessity, nor is it cruel not to have gravel.

I feel it should be in all betta bowls and tanks as they seem to enjoy
picking around it for who-knows-what. But you were right about the old
bowls I was using. I measure the water they held and it was between 1 qt and
1/2 gallon. All these hold over a gallon except that weird shaped one. The
gravel is also (along with their plants) the bio-filter so they don't have
to suffer any ammonia when I change the water.

It's simply asthetic to
the keeper's eye, brings out better coloring in any fish (one of the
reasons I use gravel in all my tanks except spawning tanks), and
creates more surfaces for the nitrifying bacteria to grow on.
It's not going to harm the fish not to have gravel in it's tank
though..

It keeps them busy. It's more natural than a plain glass bottom.

..it's just better in my personal opinion, but isn't being cruel
if they don't have it.
Yes...my single Betta tanks have plants....mostly baby Java fern shoots
and when they grow too large I simply plant them in one of the larger
tanks.
These Java ferns sprout so many baby plants (worse than a Spider
plant!) that I always have a ton to go around.
They're also great for the spawning and fry growing tanks (the baby
plants).
I must say again, I am so happy that you have given your male Bettas
the larger containers. You did right by them and didn't even say (or
did you a while back when I was off line due to my neck surgery).
Again, good job! = )

I posted the URL to the new page for a week or two. I actually measured the
water, then headed down to Goodwill ..... :-)
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
Troll Information:
http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

"Tynk" wrote in message
oups.com...
How do you make sure everyone who
buys your bettas provides them with live plants and gravel?
========
Sorry, I forgot you had asked this question..I was so excited about
your boy's larger housing that I totally forgot you asked about this.
When I gave to people, they were either neighbors, friends, etc andf I
hardly ever charged them. However, word of mouth people that came to
buy I charged a very nomimal fee and it was usually less than what the
current price at the shops were.
I would ask them about what size tank they would be going into, as well
as explain the proper care if they didn't already know.
When I was breeding with regularity (yrs ago), it wasn't like it is
now. Bettas were given proper care and kept in tanks with common
community fish.

I was raising them in NYC (60s/70s). At that time they were kept in small
glass ivy bowls that held about 8oz of water. It was very cruel but the
stores said they had no choice. Space was at a premium there and still is.
Those who knew better had them in larger bowls with some gravel and at least
one small plant of some kind. The bowls were actually either used food
jars, cookie jars or regulation GF bowls, cheap then.

People hardly ever kept them in small bowls. Of course
some did. However, it really wasn't the norm, nor were they even near
as popular. Not even close! NetMax probably remembers this, as well as
other old time hobbyists who have been in the hobby as long or longer
than I have. ( since the 1970's).

There may be regional differences in their care. Here in TN they still keep
them in ivy bowls and sell people these small bowls to keep them in. Most
bettas don't survive very long. I know this because of what people I meet
say. I always hear something like this, "Oh I had a betta once. It lived
about 2 months [or some other time-period less than a year]."

If somebody were to tell me that they wanted to keep it in a little
bowl I would simply deny them the fish. Plain and simple.
Folks who didn't already know the proper care were educated.
Heck..back then I the smallest tank I can remember there being were the
AllGlass 2 1/2 gallon ones. Not sure on if they were out in the 70's,
as I used 5g's back then for tiny tanks.

I always remember there being 2g tanks. My mother bought us a 2g Metaframe
tank in 1952. It had a SS light and a plastic bubble-up filter, gray gravel
and a few real plants. She bought us guppies. I barely remember the GF
bowl and the 2 GF that died in days prior to that. I must have been very
young. Someone clued her in that fish can't live in bowls. I remember she
would change the Angelhair fiberglass filter material, carefully feed them.
That little tank hooked me for a lifetime. :-) I can't remember exactly
when they switched from SS framed tanks to all glass tanks.

How about anyone else...I can't remember.
Back then people didn't have these tiny tanks to choose from or those
horrible contaptions they're selling for Bettas these days. Those clear
plastic things that have an area that's almost a V shape in the middle
for the Betta to be housed in. It holds like a couple/few ounces of
water. These things are horribly cruel.

The stores here have all kinds of tiny over priced plastic bowls for Bettas.
:-( The place I got mine said they were around 1/2 gallon each. They
weren't, and I never gave it a thought because the fish did so well in them.

I even stopped going to one of
the local shops because he started selling these things. He got all
excited when I walked in one day and couldn't wait to show me these new
Betta "tanks".
I did one of these faces...= O
I said..I can't believe you are selling such cruel things and walked
out.
He knew better too. He's a local shop trying to compete with the chains
around him and I'm sorry, but he could have done better than that.
There's many 1g set ups with even a light that he could have sold for
less money than he was selling these torture chambers for.

I don't see any of those here. They used to sell the 1and 2g hex ones you
see on my windowsill, but those are hard to find now. They came with an
UGF, airpump, hood and even a light for $20! What happened to them? They
were excellent for bettas or other small fish. Now all I see are small
bowls and it then jumps to the 10g tank. The 2 and 5g tanks can only be
found in aquarium stores now and they aren't cheap. :-( The all glass 2s
(with glass dividers), the 5 and a few of my 10s were left to me by a
housemate who moved out of state back in 1988.

I will say some of these things are getting a little better.
Some have gotten to be a gallon or more and have these mini power
filters and some even have mini fluorescent lights above them. Those
are ok in a constantly warm house or for somebody in a warm climate.
(when talking Bettas that is)
But a couple/few ounces of water? Horrible.


Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
Troll Information:
http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

When I make the spray bar move the water
without disturbing the surface I get bubbles and some living things
floating at the surface. When I move the surface around, the stuff seem
to disappear.


I have no idea what you are talking about.

Shorty wrote,
When starting a planted tank with a few fish. How much aeration do I
need?
I am using a canister filter.

The larger the bio-load and the warmer the water, the less dissolved
oxygen. Canister filters are known to move a lot of water - most types
of aquatic plants that thrive in nature, grow in slow flowing or still
water - plus, algaes do better in a turbulent enviroment. If your going
to use a canister filter, I would point the spray bar in such a way to
move the surface of the water the least amount. If you haven't set the
filter up yet, see if you can take it back to the store and trade it
in. Unless it's a large tank with large fish, those high performance
filters are not necessarily the best filter for the tank! The flow rate
(gph) is much to fast - solid waste becomes traped within the filters
media, because of the flow rate, dissolves quickly and is pumped right
back into the tank as DOCs, an endless supply of plant nutrients
(excessive algae growth occurs). The effectiveness of bio-filtering is
greatly improved the longer the polluted water is held in the filter.

Also... do you recommend surface movement to introduce more oxygen in
the water for the bacteria colony to grow?

The bacteria colony will do fine with or without surface movement -
surface movement is more for the fish. Again, a large bio-load, heat,
and even some medications can/will rob the water from dissolved oxygen,
so your question is a good one, and the answer can differ from tank to
tank. Best way to tell if there is enough dissolved oxygen in a
tropical tank, is to have a few cool water fish in their. I keep eather
a few white cloud mountain minnows in the tank, or a hillstream loach
or two. Cool water fish will show respiratory distress long before the
warm water fish! ....................Frank