In article , Harry Muscle wrote:
[Crosspost snipped]

I used medium tech approach for a while, before going all out on high
tech. Some thoughts:

standard gravel mixed half half with fluorite or laterite (can't remember
the difference) to cut down cost

Go ahead and mix if you like, but if it's that much cheaper, just drop
the special substrate. I have a beautiful planted 20gal with
run-of-the-mill coated gravel.

undergravel heating (I can get these cheap)

If you can get it cheap, whatever. I've never used it.

good lighting (this I can build myself so lots of light is not a problem)

Heh, I built mine myself too! Still ran me about $150 for 2-3 wpg!
Avoiding expensive lighting is IMHO, one reason not to go high-tech.

no CO2 injection
dosing, preferably not

As others have said, DI CO2 is easy. A lot less work than I thought.

Also, before CO2, I got by on weekly dosing quite nicely. A small dose
of fertilizer with a weekly water change would help out nicely. Even
with CO2, I don't dose daily.

tons of filtration (this I can also do myself so I can add as much
filtration as is necassary)

I kinda kick myself for going overboard with filtration. I should've
saved the cash and just got a smaller filter. Keep that in mind.

So how does that sound? Could I expect this to work. I don't mind sticking
to the easier plants and all I expect of them is that they grow, but their
rate of growth I'm not too concerned about (I basically don't want them to
die or always stay the same). Anybody else tried something similar, what
kind of growth did you achieve, did it last?

Yea, you can definately expect it to work. Pretty well if you stick to
basic stuff like you mentioned. Mine would've lasted nicely forever.
The growth was quite impressive at times, when it came to quickly
growing plants. Things like swords didn't do so hot until I added CO2.

It's very sustainable - should last forever. In my case, my desire to
mess around with more aquarium stuff ran out much more quickly ::-)

--
Ross Vandegrift


A Pope has a Water Cannon. It is a Water Cannon.
He fires Holy-Water from it. It is a Holy-Water Cannon.
He Blesses it. It is a Holy Holy-Water Cannon.
He Blesses the Hell out of it. It is a Wholly Holy Holy-Water Cannon.
He has it pierced. It is a Holey Wholly Holy Holy-Water Cannon.
He makes it official. It is a Canon Holey Wholly Holy Holy-Water Cannon.
Batman and Robin arrive. He shoots them.

2 liter bottles dont fit in my freezer standing up..theres a shelf in the way...


Robert Flory wrote:

Not if you put it in the freezer to rapid cool it :-)

Bob
"Rich Conley" wrote in message
...
Yeah..it will foam...but it settles back down in a while...

Robert Flory wrote:

"Rich Conley" wrote in message
...
Basically I use knox jello....a cup of sugar...mix in hot water...poor
water
into coke bottle...put in fridge till it gets hard....then put an inch
of
warm
water and yeast. It doesnt put out as high levels of CO2 as the
"normal"
methods...but it lasts forever....takes the yeast a while to eat
through...

PH swings dont seem to be bad.....I let the new batch go for like 2
hours
before
I swith the bottles...jsut so I'm sure its actually producing CO2....I
dont
really see any swings...any Day-night swings dont seem to effect the
fish...but
I dont measure, so I cant tell you what they are...

With high light, CO2...actually keeps PH crashes from happening. In
fertilized
high-light tanks, the plants will eat all the carbonate in the water,
if
you
dont have CO2...and your PH will crash...CO2 keeps the plants from
eating
the
carbonate.



Try adding a little sugar to the yeast and water added on top of the
Jell-O.
You can have the best of both worlds...quick start and a long even run.

Suggestion... from experience. Don't be lazy and mix everything in the
bottle. Jell-O will foam up if you shake it hard enough...;-)

Bob

get a new freezer ???

--
Richard Reynolds




"Rich Conley" wrote in message
...
2 liter bottles dont fit in my freezer standing up..theres a shelf in the way...


Robert Flory wrote:

Not if you put it in the freezer to rapid cool it :-)

Bob
"Rich Conley" wrote in message
...
Yeah..it will foam...but it settles back down in a while...

Robert Flory wrote:

"Rich Conley" wrote in message
...
Basically I use knox jello....a cup of sugar...mix in hot water...poor
water
into coke bottle...put in fridge till it gets hard....then put an inch
of
warm
water and yeast. It doesnt put out as high levels of CO2 as the
"normal"
methods...but it lasts forever....takes the yeast a while to eat
through...

PH swings dont seem to be bad.....I let the new batch go for like 2
hours
before
I swith the bottles...jsut so I'm sure its actually producing CO2....I
dont
really see any swings...any Day-night swings dont seem to effect the
fish...but
I dont measure, so I cant tell you what they are...

With high light, CO2...actually keeps PH crashes from happening. In
fertilized
high-light tanks, the plants will eat all the carbonate in the water,
if
you
dont have CO2...and your PH will crash...CO2 keeps the plants from
eating
the
carbonate.



Try adding a little sugar to the yeast and water added on top of the
Jell-O.
You can have the best of both worlds...quick start and a long even run.

Suggestion... from experience. Don't be lazy and mix everything in the
bottle. Jell-O will foam up if you shake it hard enough...;-)

Bob

I think that would eliminate all the positive aspects of DIY CO2.....

Richard Reynolds wrote:

get a new freezer ???

--
Richard Reynolds


"Rich Conley" wrote in message
...
2 liter bottles dont fit in my freezer standing up..theres a shelf in the way...


Robert Flory wrote:

Not if you put it in the freezer to rapid cool it :-)

Bob
"Rich Conley" wrote in message
...
Yeah..it will foam...but it settles back down in a while...

Robert Flory wrote:

"Rich Conley" wrote in message
...
Basically I use knox jello....a cup of sugar...mix in hot water...poor
water
into coke bottle...put in fridge till it gets hard....then put an inch
of
warm
water and yeast. It doesnt put out as high levels of CO2 as the
"normal"
methods...but it lasts forever....takes the yeast a while to eat
through...

PH swings dont seem to be bad.....I let the new batch go for like 2
hours
before
I swith the bottles...jsut so I'm sure its actually producing CO2....I
dont
really see any swings...any Day-night swings dont seem to effect the
fish...but
I dont measure, so I cant tell you what they are...

With high light, CO2...actually keeps PH crashes from happening. In
fertilized
high-light tanks, the plants will eat all the carbonate in the water,
if
you
dont have CO2...and your PH will crash...CO2 keeps the plants from
eating
the
carbonate.



Try adding a little sugar to the yeast and water added on top of the
Jell-O.
You can have the best of both worlds...quick start and a long even run.

Suggestion... from experience. Don't be lazy and mix everything in the
bottle. Jell-O will foam up if you shake it hard enough...;-)

Bob

true but really how much are you willing to do to save $

i know ive got the DIY bug also

but ive spent less than $50 for co2 for a canister system for freshwater. its not like its
my reeftank's calc reator.

--
Richard Reynolds




"Rich Conley" wrote in message
...
I think that would eliminate all the positive aspects of DIY CO2.....

Richard Reynolds wrote:

get a new freezer ???

--
Richard Reynolds


"Rich Conley" wrote in message
...
2 liter bottles dont fit in my freezer standing up..theres a shelf in the way...


Robert Flory wrote:

Not if you put it in the freezer to rapid cool it :-)

Bob
"Rich Conley" wrote in message
...
Yeah..it will foam...but it settles back down in a while...

Robert Flory wrote:

"Rich Conley" wrote in message
...
Basically I use knox jello....a cup of sugar...mix in hot water...poor
water
into coke bottle...put in fridge till it gets hard....then put an inch
of
warm
water and yeast. It doesnt put out as high levels of CO2 as the
"normal"
methods...but it lasts forever....takes the yeast a while to eat
through...

PH swings dont seem to be bad.....I let the new batch go for like 2
hours
before
I swith the bottles...jsut so I'm sure its actually producing CO2....I
dont
really see any swings...any Day-night swings dont seem to effect the
fish...but
I dont measure, so I cant tell you what they are...

With high light, CO2...actually keeps PH crashes from happening. In
fertilized
high-light tanks, the plants will eat all the carbonate in the water,
if
you
dont have CO2...and your PH will crash...CO2 keeps the plants from
eating
the
carbonate.



Try adding a little sugar to the yeast and water added on top of the
Jell-O.
You can have the best of both worlds...quick start and a long even run.

Suggestion... from experience. Don't be lazy and mix everything in the
bottle. Jell-O will foam up if you shake it hard enough...;-)

Bob

I like medium tech tanks myself. A lot of people have them. See the "moderate
light" option on my page:

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/.../881/setup.htm

standard gravel mixed half half with fluorite or laterite (can't remember
the difference) to cut down cost

Flourite is worth the cost, IME, especially for someone who's new to planted
tanks. With Flourite, you'll be able to rearrange your tank all you want. And
it lasts forever, unlike laterite.

undergravel heating (I can get these cheap)

I wouldn't bother with this. Not worth it, even if you can get them cheap.

good lighting (this I can build myself so lots of light is not a problem)
no CO2 injection

For a "medium tech" tank, be careful to keep your lighting around 2 watts per
gallon. Definitely under 3 wpg. If you go over 3 wpg, you have to inject CO2.
Otherwise, your tank will suffer pH swings so severe they can actually kill
your fish.

preferably not
tons of filtration (this I can also do myself so I can add as much
filtration as is necassary)

You probably won't need as much filtration with a planted tank. The plants
serve as supplemental filtration.

A moderate-light tank is, IMO, the perfect tank for a beginner. It's
inexpensive and easy. Much less work than a high-tech tank. The plants grow
more slowly, but you will be able to grow all but the most demanding. And
slower growth means less pruning!


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

High light and no CO2 is a bad idea...you could also do DIY CO2....its almost
free...

Harry Muscle wrote:

I've been doing a bit of research on how I want to setup my new planted
tank. It seems like there are two directions to go in, Low Tech and High
Tech. Low tech consisting of nothing special in the soil, no undergravel
heating, basic lighting, no CO2, no daily dosing, and sometimes no
filtration. It looks like people have success with this, slow growth, but
it seems to work. High tech consists of special soil, undergravel heating,
good lighting, CO2 injection, dosing, and tons of filtration. However, what
about Medium tech? The tank that would best fit my pocket and needs would
consists of:

standard gravel mixed half half with fluorite or laterite (can't remember
the difference) to cut down cost
undergravel heating (I can get these cheap)
good lighting (this I can build myself so lots of light is not a problem)
no CO2 injection
dosing, preferably not
tons of filtration (this I can also do myself so I can add as much
filtration as is necassary)

Basically I would take a position somewhere mid point between Low and High
tech, by adding better soil, undergravel heating, better lights, a little
bit of dosing and filtration to a low tech tank, but still staying away from
daily dosing and co2 injection.

So how does that sound? Could I expect this to work. I don't mind sticking
to the easier plants and all I expect of them is that they grow, but their
rate of growth I'm not too concerned about (I basically don't want them to
die or always stay the same). Anybody else tried something similar, what
kind of growth did you achieve, did it last?

Thanks for any feedback,
Harry

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Exactly...lost of light, and the plants and no CO2 means the plants become
CO2 limited from growing fast..and cant use all the nutrients in the
water...so the algae do....algae soup.....

I use the DIY jello recipe...I touch the bottle once a month...absolutely no
hastle whatsoever.

Harry Muscle wrote:

"Rich Conley" wrote in message
...
High light and no CO2 is a bad idea...you could also do DIY CO2....its
almost
free...


Why? Lots of algea? That's the first thing that comes to my mind.

Thanks,
Harry

P.S. DIY CO2 seems like too much hassle. I'd rather spend the money on
pressurized CO2 than spend the time on DIY CO2, however, overall, I would
like to stay away from CO2 if possible.

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