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Old 27-03-2003, 07:44 AM
s g
 
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Default questions regarding filters, plants, and substrate + a personal note for Phyl & company

Everything should be here in a week (web/mail order) for my semi low
tech goldfish aquarium (no CO2, use of natural light, lots of plants)
finally! This should be quite an adventure. I have done lots of
research and had some experience with smaller plant/fish low tech
aquariums.

I would like to thank all you guys and gals out there who have
answered questions and provided suggestions! This and other fish
newsgroups have been extremely helpful! thank you someone (cant
remember who she was) that recommended Ecology of the Planted Aquarium
by Diana Walstad, I had actually ordered this book before the
recommendation taking a leap thinking this book might be helpful.
Also, thank you to another guy (?) who does the growing of trees (like
bonsai) in an aquarium. I would like to get a hold of you and just
learn more about your aquariums. I will have to find the past message
and try to email you.

Diana Walstad's book is amazing, to say the least. If you are
embarking on a low tech aquarium or just interested in plants and
using them religiously as sewage treatment centers in the aquarium,
take a look at your library for this book or buy it. I found it at
Wal-Mart's book website (I know what you are thinking. damn that
Wal-Mart and all of scandalous and unethical practices! if only they
didn't have such a great selling strat). Just in case you are
interested and want to know more about it is broken up into main
sections discussing plants as purifiers, bacteria, plant nutrients,
carbon, nutrition and ecology, substrate, aerial growth, algae
control, and she finishes the book with a set up and maitance guide.
She has tons of research, drawings, charts, and faqs which make all
the information a lot easier to understand.

The only complaints I would have (very few) are that it does take some
time to read (almost 190 pgs). You do have to have some basic
knowledge of aquariums, general chemistry, and data interpretation
skills. The only part I question in the book is her major advocating
of soil in the aquarium. I haven't tried soil/rock substrate, yet,
and I am too scared to do so for various reasons. It does make
perfect common sense that you should use plants, natural sunlight, and
a soil/pebble rock substrate to produce a balanced ecosystem in your
aquarium. I am still open to being talked into it though, so e-mail or
post if you have had good experiences!

BORING zzzzzz anyways.

I have read many different places that charcoal is not recommended or
very effective in chemical filtration for filters, so now what? Has
anyone had any experience with SeaChem Matrix Bio Media? I was
thinking of maybe sticking this in my filter (2-3 marineland emperor
400s in a 125) stuck in a pantyhose sac or filter bag then putting
some sort of filter padding before and after. The only question I have
about this is how big are the compartments of the marineland emperor
400 filter (same as 280 but what size)? Will the Matrix Bio Media
leave nutrients for the plants? Is my idea feasible?

word picture to maybe help

U---H--- I X I---H

U = the tank
H = filter walls
I = filter pads to stop large particle from going back into water
X = Matix Bio Media wrapped in panty hose maybe?
--- = water flow

About cycling an aquarium with plants and filter. I planed on
fishless cycling and have read information on this. I have heard that
cycling with plants can be confusing and varies by tank. I have also
experienced with this. I wish I would have kept journals. I plan on
doing this from now on. Should I leave plants out till later before
fish? Also I heard the Emperors can be difficult to cycle. Is this
true, and how can I combat this? I don't want to take water from
other aquariums because I am starting a fancy goldfish tank and
goldfish can be very delicate. I also am not going to by "cycling
bacteria" again, because this is a rip off, in my experience and
expensive. I thought maybe getting some water from a LFS goldfish
tank, but this is still worrisome.

As I stated I am worried about going the whole nine yards for low tech
tanks. I thought that for substrate I would use 1-2 inches of 3/4
Fluorite Laterite from Seachem mixed with 1/4 walnut gravel then top
that off with larger river pebbles to stop the goldfish from
swallowing/stiring up the substrate. How does this sound and what are
your experiences with this product?

I know that I can never be prepared for or learn everything I need to
know beforehand. I just have to do a lot of it, keep records, and hope
for the best. I would be interested in sharing information if anyone
would be interested in my endeavor. The main problems I will encounter
and will have to fix on my own are getting enough nutrients in the
plants while not growing harmful algae, plant destruction by goldfish,
and no CO2.

Thank you for listening to the ravings of a mad man, for any
suggestions you might have, and reading this long post!

Samuel

P.S.
Phyl (sp?) I am very sorry about your misfortune. I have heard a great
many things about you, your aquarium plant knowledge, your service,
and your merchandise. I have heard these things not only from this
newsgroup but from TONS of plant/fish groups and websites. I was
really looking forward to doing business with you. It's a personal
loss to not only you but to everyone. :***-( I hope maybe someday you
will have the strength to start again or even just come and join the
electronic community that seems to miss you so much!

Sincerely
Samuel


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Old 27-03-2003, 12:44 PM
LeighMo
 
Posts: n/a
Default questions regarding filters, plants, and substrate + a personal note for Phyl & company

Everything should be here in a week (web/mail order) for my semi low
tech goldfish aquarium (no CO2, use of natural light, lots of plants)
finally!


I'm not sure this is a good idea. I'm all for low-tech tanks, but a planted
tank with goldfish will be difficult. Goldfish are incorrigible plant-eaters.
I fear they will kill all your plants, since in a low-tech tank, the plants
can't grow fast enough to outpace the damage.

In addition, I hope your tank is large. Goldfish are tiny when you get them,
but grow very large, very fast. You need 20-30 gallons for each fish, and
since they are happiest in groups, the minimum size tank for goldfish would be
a 55 gallon (for two fish). And bigger is better. They produce a lot of
waste, being bulky fish for their size, and are constantly stirring up the
substrate, so lots of filtration is also recommended.

It does make
perfect common sense that you should use plants, natural sunlight, and
a soil/pebble rock substrate to produce a balanced ecosystem in your
aquarium. I am still open to being talked into it though, so e-mail or
post if you have had good experiences!


Probably not a good idea with goldfish. At any rate, make sure you use fine
gravel or sand in a goldfish tank. Goldfish suck in mouthfuls of substrate and
spit it back out as part of their natural feeding behavior. If you use pebbles
that are too big, they can become stuck in the fish's mouth.

I have read many different places that charcoal is not recommended or
very effective in chemical filtration for filters, so now what? Has
anyone had any experience with SeaChem Matrix Bio Media? I was
thinking of maybe sticking this in my filter (2-3 marineland emperor
400s in a 125) stuck in a pantyhose sac or filter bag then putting
some sort of filter padding before and after. The only question I have
about this is how big are the compartments of the marineland emperor
400 filter (same as 280 but what size)? Will the Matrix Bio Media
leave nutrients for the plants? Is my idea feasible?


Use any of the vast array of bio media on the market. You might consider the
Cell-Pore brand. They make filter inserts out of a special biomedia to fit a
variety of popular filters. There are also other companies that do this, so
look around. Since you're not injecting CO2, a bio-wheel or three would be a
very good thing.

Should I leave plants out till later before
fish?


I would do a fishless cycle on the aquarium, then add the plants and fish at
the same time. If you add the plants before you cycle the tank, they may
become algae-covered, because of all the ammonia you'll be adding to the tank.


I thought that for substrate I would use 1-2 inches of 3/4
Fluorite Laterite from Seachem mixed with 1/4 walnut gravel then top
that off with larger river pebbles to stop the goldfish from
swallowing/stiring up the substrate.


Don't do that. Leave out the large river pebbles. Let the goldfish swallow
the substrate; it's their natural behavior. Unless you plan to use very large
rocks indeed (which won't be good for the plants), the goldfish will eventually
grow large enough to get the pebbles in their mouths, and get them stuck in
there. With goldfish, you should use a fine substrate, so nothing can get
stuck in their mouths, and not a coarse one, hoping it's too big for them to
swallow. You'd be surprised what a goldfish can get in its mouth.

And Flourite isn't laterite. It's a substrate in its own right. Though it can
be mixed with gravel, it's meant to be used on its own.

As I said above, I don't think a planted goldfish tank is a very good idea.
But if you must try this, have you considered Seachem Onyx Sand? No laterite
required. It's actually a very fine gravel, not a sand. And it's a dark grey
color that, IME, would show off the colors of goldfish better than Flourite
would. If it's too expensive to use straight, it can be cut with up to 50%
dark sand, such as Tahitian Moon.

Phyl (sp?) I am very sorry about your misfortune.


What happened to Phyl? I thought she just decided to retire.


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/
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Old 28-03-2003, 02:56 PM
Donald Kerns
 
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Default questions regarding filters, plants, and substrate + a personal note for Phyl & company

LeighMo wrote:

Everything should be here in a week (web/mail order) for my semi low
tech goldfish aquarium (no CO2, use of natural light, lots of plants)
finally!


I'm not sure this is a good idea. I'm all for low-tech tanks, but a
planted
tank with goldfish will be difficult. Goldfish are incorrigible
plant-eaters. I fear they will kill all your plants, since in a low-tech
tank, the plants can't grow fast enough to outpace the damage.


Um, low-tech planted goldfish tank using Walstad principles can be found
here...

http://mike-edwardes.members.beeb.net/plant/lotech.html

HTH,

-Donald
--
"There is nothing so strong as gentleness, and there is nothing so gentle as
real strength." St. Francis de Sales
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Old 29-03-2003, 12:56 AM
LeighMo
 
Posts: n/a
Default questions regarding filters, plants, and substrate + a personal note for Phyl & company

Um, low-tech planted goldfish tank using Walstad principles can be found
here...

http://mike-edwardes.members.beeb.net/plant/lotech.html



I've seen that page. It's a cool tank.

However, you will note that he says the only plants he can keep in the tank are
hornwort and one species of Val, because the goldfish "destroy" any other
plants he puts in.

If you must keep goldfish in your planted tank, it's possible. They don't
generally eat anubias, and java fern is sometimes safe, too. But it's not
easy, I don't recommend it for beginners. It's awfully frustrating to have
goldfish eat all your expensive new plants. And worse, if no plants grow,
algae will take advantage of the "natural" light and all that goldfish poop.


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/
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Old 30-03-2003, 03:56 PM
Poe Lim
 
Posts: n/a
Default questions regarding filters, plants, and substrate + a personal note for Phyl & company


"LeighMo" wrote in message
...

However, you will note that he says the only plants he can keep in the

tank are
hornwort and one species of Val, because the goldfish "destroy" any other
plants he puts in.

If you must keep goldfish in your planted tank, it's possible. They don't
generally eat anubias, and java fern is sometimes safe, too. But it's not
easy, I don't recommend it for beginners. It's awfully frustrating to

have
goldfish eat all your expensive new plants. And worse, if no plants grow,
algae will take advantage of the "natural" light and all that goldfish

poop.

After more than a year experimenting with goldfish and plants, I have made
the following observations:

1) Gold fish prefers fish food; fed reasonably well, they leave the plants
mostly alone;
2) Do not start with a few plants; start with many plants, and that gives
them all a chance to grow well;
3) Forget delicate plants (such as Ambulia);
4) Be prepared to replant often; goldfish will dig plants out;
5) Fertilisation definitely required.

I currently have Spiral and Corkscrew Vals, Microsorum (normal and
Windolov), Anubias, Ceratopteris, Elodea, some sort of Sword (supposedly
Amazon, but I'm not so sure) and some Crypts (although most melted when I
moved them). This is a relatively low light tank(1.5W/US gal), and the
Corkscrew Vals, Elodea and Ceraptoteris are taking off (weekly 20% removal),
the Anubias and Microsorums are doing very well (several divisions done for
both), although the Windolov isn't doing as well. Swords are hanging in
there, although did flower once. But if I fail to fertilise, the Microsorum
and Anubias show deficiencies very quickly (probably out competed by the
faster growers).

I had more problems when I was trialing things, as plants kept getting eaten
and dug out, but now with heavier planting, the problem is not as great
(except one of the swords got dug up today). Ambulias lasted two weeks
(goldfish evidently liked them), Hornworts grew well, but are messy plants,
and tended to get "top heavy", Lileopsis were regularly dug up; I should
have used finer gravel.

My currently problem seems to be yellowing new growth in the Anubias, and
some Microsorum, whilst the nitrate is at 20ppm; not quite sure what gives.
And algae on the glass (working on that with Bristlenose Pleco; will try
Ottos again after several deaths).

--
Cheers,
Poe

to send email, add "email" to the end of oz


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