I've been playing around (in my head) with the whole idea of using DIY CO2
instead of presurized CO2 (cause of the cost and safety). However, it seems
like the biggest disadvan of DIY CO2 is the inability to control it
properly. It seems like the only way to control it is to adjust the
mixture, but even then you still get different levels of CO2 being released
into the tank throughout the life of the mixture. So I've been doodaling
around with different approa o control the release of the gas from DIY
CO2 and I thought I'd share one and see what everyone thinks of it.

The basic components are the 2L bottle which creates the gas and the box
(which doesn't actually have to be a box, but I'll call it that) to store
the gas. I would connect the bottle to the box with a hose. The box would
store the gas, however, to prevent excess gas pressure from building up, I
would have one of those back flow air valves (the ones you put between an
air pump and the aqarium) connected to the box to vent excess pressure.
Inside the box I would place an air pump that would be connected to a 2:1
valve which would vent some of the pumped CO2 back into the box and the rest
into the aquarium. This way you would have a constant flow of CO2 from the
pump and you can adjust it by varying the amount of CO2 pumped back into the
box instead of the aquarium. The box would be slightly pressurized so there
would be lots of CO2 even when the bottle encountered a low period of CO2
production.

Obviously the bigger the box the better since more CO2 is stored. I was
thinking of maybe using one of those 4L juice bottles since they are pretty
thick. I'm just unsure if they will fit a pump through the neck. In any
case, something like a 4L juice bottle could be used. Also to prevent all
of the slightly pressurized gas from escaping whenever you have to change
the CO2 producing bottle, I would put a valve in the hose connecting the
bottle to the box which can be closed when you disconnect the bottle.

So, what do you guys think. It's still pretty cheap (main reason why most
people go with DIY) and it might eliminate one of the biggest pit falls of
DIY CO2. Anybody see anything that I might be missing, something that might
go wrong or not work.

Thank you very much for everyone's input and feel free to try this out
yourself,
Harry




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the safe way to control co2 in the tank with diy is through waste of the
excess either through diffusion efficiency or through surface turbulence.

jtm

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"Harry Muscle" wrote in message
...
I've been playing around (in my head) with the whole idea of using DIY CO2
instead of presurized CO2 (cause of the cost and safety). However, it seems
like the biggest disadvan of DIY CO2 is the inability to control it
properly. It seems like the only way to control it is to adjust the
mixture, but even then you still get different levels of CO2 being released
into the tank throughout the life of the mixture. So I've been doodaling
around with different approa o control the release of the gas from DIY
CO2 and I thought I'd share one and see what everyone thinks of it.

The basic components are the 2L bottle which creates the gas and the box
(which doesn't actually have to be a box, but I'll call it that) to store
the gas. I would connect the bottle to the box with a hose. The box would
store the gas, however, to prevent excess gas pressure from building up, I
would have one of those back flow air valves (the ones you put between an
air pump and the aqarium) connected to the box to vent excess pressure.
Inside the box I would place an air pump that would be connected to a 2:1
valve which would vent some of the pumped CO2 back into the box and the rest
into the aquarium. This way you would have a constant flow of CO2 from the
pump and you can adjust it by varying the amount of CO2 pumped back into the
box instead of the aquarium. The box would be slightly pressurized so there
would be lots of CO2 even when the bottle encountered a low period of CO2
production.

Obviously the bigger the box the better since more CO2 is stored. I was
thinking of maybe using one of those 4L juice bottles since they are pretty
thick. I'm just unsure if they will fit a pump through the neck. In any
case, something like a 4L juice bottle could be used. Also to prevent all
of the slightly pressurized gas from escaping whenever you have to change
the CO2 producing bottle, I would put a valve in the hose connecting the
bottle to the box which can be closed when you disconnect the bottle.

So, what do you guys think. It's still pretty cheap (main reason why most
people go with DIY) and it might eliminate one of the biggest pit falls of
DIY CO2. Anybody see anything that I might be missing, something that might
go wrong or not work.

Thank you very much for everyone's input and feel free to try this out
yourself,
Harry




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http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

Harry Muscle wrote:

I've been playing around (in my head) with the whole idea of using DIY CO2
instead of presurized CO2 (cause of the cost and safety).

If I understand your idea, you believe that DIY CO2 suffers from control
problems, and you are proposing to store CO2 in a 4L "box", or soda bottle to
solve that problem. I'm not sure that DIY CO2 actually has control problems. I
think the issue is variable output over time, based on recipe, age of mix,
ambient temperature, and other variables.

Consider this: if you use two DIY bottles, connect them with a T fitting and
alternate renewing them, you will have a much more even output (change the mix
of bottle A on day 0, bottle B on day 7, bottle A on day 14, etc.). Next, if you
adjust your surface agitation, you can keep your CO2 concentration to within 3-5
ppm pretty consistently.

BTW, you mention safety problems of pressurized CO2. I've heard many more
stories about DIY exploding or dumping into tanks than I have of pressurized
bottles causing problems. Millions of pressurized bottles are used in soda
fountains worldwide, and you don't hear about many problems with those either.

"Millions of pressurized bottles are used in soda
fountains worldwide, and you don't hear about many problems with those either."


Thats partially because when these things tank dump....the soda just tasts bad..it
doesnt kill you....

Dave Millman wrote:

Harry Muscle wrote:

I've been playing around (in my head) with the whole idea of using DIY CO2
instead of presurized CO2 (cause of the cost and safety).

If I understand your idea, you believe that DIY CO2 suffers from control
problems, and you are proposing to store CO2 in a 4L "box", or soda bottle to
solve that problem. I'm not sure that DIY CO2 actually has control problems. I
think the issue is variable output over time, based on recipe, age of mix,
ambient temperature, and other variables.

Consider this: if you use two DIY bottles, connect them with a T fitting and
alternate renewing them, you will have a much more even output (change the mix
of bottle A on day 0, bottle B on day 7, bottle A on day 14, etc.). Next, if you
adjust your surface agitation, you can keep your CO2 concentration to within 3-5
ppm pretty consistently.

BTW, you mention safety problems of pressurized CO2. I've heard many more
stories about DIY exploding or dumping into tanks than I have of pressurized
bottles causing problems. Millions of pressurized bottles are used in soda
fountains worldwide, and you don't hear about many problems with those either.

On Thu, 27 Mar 2003, Dave Millman wrote:

BTW, you mention safety problems of pressurized CO2. I've heard many more
stories about DIY exploding or dumping into tanks than I have of pressurized
bottles causing problems. Millions of pressurized bottles are used in soda
fountains worldwide, and you don't hear about many problems with those either.

Plus, teh delivery drivers and publicans don't always treat them as
delicately as they should, plus all those welding workshops with CO2
probably don't treat them with kid gloves either.

HOWEVER, CO2 can suffocate you, and it is toxic, and there's a lot of
it in a cylinder, so it's worth treating it with respect. Gas
cylinders in general have a lot of potential for causing mayhem and
are worth being careful with.

regards, Ian SMith
--
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|o o|
|/ \|

DIY bottles exploding are mostly urban myth or lack of the one way valve.

Da'fishboy


"Rich Conley" wrote in message
...
"Millions of pressurized bottles are used in soda
fountains worldwide, and you don't hear about many problems with those
either."


Thats partially because when these things tank dump....the soda just tasts
bad..it
doesnt kill you....

Dave Millman wrote:

Harry Muscle wrote:

I've been playing around (in my head) with the whole idea of using DIY
CO2
instead of presurized CO2 (cause of the cost and safety).

If I understand your idea, you believe that DIY CO2 suffers from control
problems, and you are proposing to store CO2 in a 4L "box", or soda
bottle to
solve that problem. I'm not sure that DIY CO2 actually has control
problems. I
think the issue is variable output over time, based on recipe, age of
mix,
ambient temperature, and other variables.

Consider this: if you use two DIY bottles, connect them with a T fitting
and
alternate renewing them, you will have a much more even output (change
the mix
of bottle A on day 0, bottle B on day 7, bottle A on day 14, etc.).
Next, if you
adjust your surface agitation, you can keep your CO2 concentration to
within 3-5
ppm pretty consistently.

BTW, you mention safety problems of pressurized CO2. I've heard many
more
stories about DIY exploding or dumping into tanks than I have of
pressurized
bottles causing problems. Millions of pressurized bottles are used in
soda
fountains worldwide, and you don't hear about many problems with those
either.