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Old 16-07-2006, 11:51 PM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants
Jim Conklin
 
Posts: n/a
Default Best way to diffuse CO2 into Aquarium?

Folks I think I'm having a problem getting CO2 to diffuse into my tank.
My well water right out of the tap is very soft and acidic: about a pH of
6.2, a KH of 80ppm and a GH of 75. (Perfect for Discus, which I keep.) I
have a small CO2 tank connected with silicon tubing. I put the outlet tube
into the inlet of my Rena Filstar canister filter. I give the 55 gallon
tank about 12 hours of light with two 65 watt compact flourcent bulbs. But
I'm still troubled by 'black-green' algae and minimal plant growth. I keep
the water at 85F. I fertilize regularly with Trace and Flourish and keep the
Nitrate level at 20ppm.

I've tried all different types of plants and while they survive and
grow a bit, there is no growth such as I see in pictures of other hobbyist's
tanks. Any advise or suggestions on how to get the CO2 to stay in the water
or what I could be doing wrong is appreciated. From the specifications
above above I'd think the plants should be growing out of the tank! Thanks
for any help.

JC



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Old 17-07-2006, 12:54 AM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants
Bill Stock
 
Posts: n/a
Default Best way to diffuse CO2 into Aquarium?


"Jim Conklin" wrote in message
k.net...
Folks I think I'm having a problem getting CO2 to diffuse into my
tank. My well water right out of the tap is very soft and acidic: about a
pH of 6.2, a KH of 80ppm and a GH of 75. (Perfect for Discus, which I
keep.) I have a small CO2 tank connected with silicon tubing. I put the
outlet tube into the inlet of my Rena Filstar canister filter. I give the
55 gallon tank about 12 hours of light with two 65 watt compact flourcent
bulbs. But I'm still troubled by 'black-green' algae and minimal plant
growth. I keep the water at 85F. I fertilize regularly with Trace and
Flourish and keep the Nitrate level at 20ppm.

I've tried all different types of plants and while they survive and
grow a bit, there is no growth such as I see in pictures of other
hobbyist's tanks. Any advise or suggestions on how to get the CO2 to stay
in the water or what I could be doing wrong is appreciated. From the
specifications above above I'd think the plants should be growing out of
the tank! Thanks for any help.


Jim,

What are your CO2 levels, ie. what is your PH level after adding CO2? Where
is your spraybar output? How are your Phosphate levels?

I have a 55 gallon tall with 2*96 and my plant growth is pretty good. My PH
is around 7.8ish in the tank and 6.8 with CO2. I run the CO2 into the
venturi input of my Penguin powerheads that I use for RUGF. The Ludwigia
and other plants grow like weeds at this CO2 level. I'm currently suffering
from a fair amount of GSA (Green Spot Algae), probably due to lack of
Nitrates. My Nitrates stay around 10 ppm naturally.



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Old 17-07-2006, 02:45 AM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants
 
Posts: n/a
Default Best way to diffuse CO2 into Aquarium?


Bill Stock wrote:
"Jim Conklin" wrote in message
k.net...
Folks I think I'm having a problem getting CO2 to diffuse into my
tank. My well water right out of the tap is very soft and acidic: about a
pH of 6.2, a KH of 80ppm and a GH of 75. (Perfect for Discus, which I
keep.) I have a small CO2 tank connected with silicon tubing. I put the
outlet tube into the inlet of my Rena Filstar canister filter. I give the
55 gallon tank about 12 hours of light with two 65 watt compact flourcent
bulbs. But I'm still troubled by 'black-green' algae and minimal plant
growth. I keep the water at 85F. I fertilize regularly with Trace and
Flourish and keep the Nitrate level at 20ppm.

I've tried all different types of plants and while they survive and
grow a bit, there is no growth such as I see in pictures of other
hobbyist's tanks. Any advise or suggestions on how to get the CO2 to stay
in the water or what I could be doing wrong is appreciated. From the
specifications above above I'd think the plants should be growing out of
the tank! Thanks for any help.


Jim,

What are your CO2 levels, ie. what is your PH level after adding CO2? Where
is your spraybar output? How are your Phosphate levels?

I have a 55 gallon tall with 2*96 and my plant growth is pretty good. My PH
is around 7.8ish in the tank and 6.8 with CO2. I run the CO2 into the
venturi input of my Penguin powerheads that I use for RUGF. The Ludwigia
and other plants grow like weeds at this CO2 level. I'm currently suffering
from a fair amount of GSA (Green Spot Algae), probably due to lack of
Nitrates. My Nitrates stay around 10 ppm naturally.


Bill, if you add 1/8 teaspoon 3x a week of KH2PO4 you will watch the
tank grow faster and not longer have that hard green spot algae.
a 50% weekly water change, Adding 1/4-1/2 teaspoon KNO3, 2-3x a week
and something like TMG 10mls 3x a week would address most any issues
you may have with growth. Mg is likely the only other item you might
need a tad more of(so adding say 1/4 teraspoon of that once a week
after the water change will take care of that along with the levels in
the tap and the TMG which has a little Mg/K as well.

Regards,
Tom Barr

www.BarrReport.com

  #4   Report Post  
Old 17-07-2006, 02:59 AM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants
 
Posts: n/a
Default Best way to diffuse CO2 into Aquarium?


Jim Conklin wrote:
Folks I think I'm having a problem getting CO2 to diffuse into my tank.
My well water right out of the tap is very soft and acidic: about a pH of
6.2, a KH of 80ppm and a GH of 75. (Perfect for Discus, which I keep.) I
have a small CO2 tank connected with silicon tubing. I put the outlet tube
into the inlet of my Rena Filstar canister filter. I give the 55 gallon
tank about 12 hours of light with two 65 watt compact flourcent bulbs. But
I'm still troubled by 'black-green' algae and minimal plant growth. I keep
the water at 85F. I fertilize regularly with Trace and Flourish and keep the
Nitrate level at 20ppm.

I've tried all different types of plants and while they survive and
grow a bit, there is no growth such as I see in pictures of other hobbyist's
tanks. Any advise or suggestions on how to get the CO2 to stay in the water
or what I could be doing wrong is appreciated. From the specifications
above above I'd think the plants should be growing out of the tank! Thanks
for any help.

JC


you have a few things going on, one is a lack of K+ and likely NO3.
It's a discus tank, so doing weekly water changes, say 60% will help.
You will not have much build up of NO3 this way.
The light is not particularly high, so the CO2 needs to be addressed
but it should not be too tough to get that part right.

The BGA, the algae you have, you need to kill/remove what is there ,
then start dosing KNO3.

I do not know how many times folks have claimed they have 10-40ppm of
NO3 then they dose the KNO3 and ther BGA goes away and their plants
start growing.
We have dosed high levels of K+ with K2SO4 and still had BGA, so it's
not that part.
NO3/PO4 test kits are notoriously inaccurate.
Lamotte and Hach tend to be fairly accurate when compared to a known
series of standards. You can calibrate the cheapy test kits if you make
the standards yourself.

I'd do this:
Clean the tank good of the BGA, clean the filter good.
Disturb the substrate a bit and get any muck up.
Do a 60% water change.
Add KNO3 at 1/2 teaspoon.

Black the tank out with a couple of trash bag layers
Tank needs covered/no light for 3 days, turn off the CO2 and turn the
filter to cause the surface movement to increase.

You can feed fish and peek in etc,

After the 3 days, remove and hook the CO2 back up, do another 60% water
change, add
1/2 teaspoon of KNO3 and about 2x a week from then on.
Add 1/8 teaspoon of KH2PO4 2x a week also.
Add a trace mix(Flourish etc) at 10mls 2-3x a week.
GH booster, you may need this.

See www.gregwatson.com for these chemicals, they are very cheap and
will last a year or two.

CO2 reactor, I have a diagram on my web site (it's on the public side,
not the subscriber side) on how to make a nice looking, 2$
diffuser(plus a rio180 powerhead, 10$ on line), you can also make a
cheap PVC in line reactor also(See RexGrigg's site-search google etc)
but the internal version is very easy to use and does the job for DIY
or gas tank CO2.

The other option is adding SeaChem Excel(1.5-2x their suggested
amounts).

That will take care of most of the issues you have and give you the
pearling and weedy plant growth the rest of the plants folks have.

Regards,
Tom Barr


www.BarrReport.com

  #5   Report Post  
Old 17-07-2006, 04:48 AM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants
Jim Conklin
 
Posts: n/a
Default Best way to diffuse CO2 into Aquarium?



wrote in message
oups.com...

Jim Conklin wrote:
Folks I think I'm having a problem getting CO2 to diffuse into my tank.
My well water right out of the tap is very soft and acidic: about a pH of
6.2, a KH of 80ppm and a GH of 75. (Perfect for Discus, which I keep.)
I
have a small CO2 tank connected with silicon tubing. I put the outlet
tube
into the inlet of my Rena Filstar canister filter. I give the 55 gallon
tank about 12 hours of light with two 65 watt compact flourcent bulbs.
But
I'm still troubled by 'black-green' algae and minimal plant growth. I
keep
the water at 85F. I fertilize regularly with Trace and Flourish and keep
the
Nitrate level at 20ppm.

I've tried all different types of plants and while they survive and
grow a bit, there is no growth such as I see in pictures of other
hobbyist's
tanks. Any advise or suggestions on how to get the CO2 to stay in the
water
or what I could be doing wrong is appreciated. From the specifications
above above I'd think the plants should be growing out of the tank!
Thanks
for any help.

JC


you have a few things going on, one is a lack of K+ and likely NO3.
It's a discus tank, so doing weekly water changes, say 60% will help.
You will not have much build up of NO3 this way.
The light is not particularly high, so the CO2 needs to be addressed
but it should not be too tough to get that part right.

The BGA, the algae you have, you need to kill/remove what is there ,
then start dosing KNO3.

I do not know how many times folks have claimed they have 10-40ppm of
NO3 then they dose the KNO3 and ther BGA goes away and their plants
start growing.
We have dosed high levels of K+ with K2SO4 and still had BGA, so it's
not that part.
NO3/PO4 test kits are notoriously inaccurate.
Lamotte and Hach tend to be fairly accurate when compared to a known
series of standards. You can calibrate the cheapy test kits if you make
the standards yourself.

I'd do this:
Clean the tank good of the BGA, clean the filter good.
Disturb the substrate a bit and get any muck up.
Do a 60% water change.
Add KNO3 at 1/2 teaspoon.

Black the tank out with a couple of trash bag layers
Tank needs covered/no light for 3 days, turn off the CO2 and turn the
filter to cause the surface movement to increase.

You can feed fish and peek in etc,

After the 3 days, remove and hook the CO2 back up, do another 60% water
change, add
1/2 teaspoon of KNO3 and about 2x a week from then on.
Add 1/8 teaspoon of KH2PO4 2x a week also.
Add a trace mix(Flourish etc) at 10mls 2-3x a week.
GH booster, you may need this.

See www.gregwatson.com for these chemicals, they are very cheap and
will last a year or two.

CO2 reactor, I have a diagram on my web site (it's on the public side,
not the subscriber side) on how to make a nice looking, 2$
diffuser(plus a rio180 powerhead, 10$ on line), you can also make a
cheap PVC in line reactor also(See RexGrigg's site-search google etc)
but the internal version is very easy to use and does the job for DIY
or gas tank CO2.

The other option is adding SeaChem Excel(1.5-2x their suggested
amounts).

That will take care of most of the issues you have and give you the
pearling and weedy plant growth the rest of the plants folks have.

Regards,
Tom Barr


www.BarrReport.com


Well I do a 75% water change every third day or so. (I use a Python
which makes water changing very easy.) My pH is always around 6.2. I dose
with KNO3 about 3/4 teaspoon twice a week or so. I don't want to go too
high with it as I've heard anything above 20 ppm is not good for the fish.
When I started to add more KNO3 it would climb to near 40ppm. Are you
saying that the test kits/strips that say 20- 30 ppm are not that accurate?
How should I judge then? Never tried the 'black bag' approach, I'll buy
some tomorrow and give it a try. Thanks for the help.

JC




  #6   Report Post  
Old 18-07-2006, 01:55 AM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants
Bill Stock
 
Posts: n/a
Default Best way to diffuse CO2 into Aquarium?


wrote in message
ups.com...

Bill Stock wrote:
"Jim Conklin" wrote in message
k.net...
Folks I think I'm having a problem getting CO2 to diffuse into my
tank. My well water right out of the tap is very soft and acidic: about
a
pH of 6.2, a KH of 80ppm and a GH of 75. (Perfect for Discus, which I
keep.) I have a small CO2 tank connected with silicon tubing. I put
the
outlet tube into the inlet of my Rena Filstar canister filter. I give
the
55 gallon tank about 12 hours of light with two 65 watt compact
flourcent
bulbs. But I'm still troubled by 'black-green' algae and minimal plant
growth. I keep the water at 85F. I fertilize regularly with Trace and
Flourish and keep the Nitrate level at 20ppm.

I've tried all different types of plants and while they survive and
grow a bit, there is no growth such as I see in pictures of other
hobbyist's tanks. Any advise or suggestions on how to get the CO2 to
stay
in the water or what I could be doing wrong is appreciated. From the
specifications above above I'd think the plants should be growing out
of
the tank! Thanks for any help.


Jim,

What are your CO2 levels, ie. what is your PH level after adding CO2?
Where
is your spraybar output? How are your Phosphate levels?

I have a 55 gallon tall with 2*96 and my plant growth is pretty good. My
PH
is around 7.8ish in the tank and 6.8 with CO2. I run the CO2 into the
venturi input of my Penguin powerheads that I use for RUGF. The Ludwigia
and other plants grow like weeds at this CO2 level. I'm currently
suffering
from a fair amount of GSA (Green Spot Algae), probably due to lack of
Nitrates. My Nitrates stay around 10 ppm naturally.


Bill, if you add 1/8 teaspoon 3x a week of KH2PO4 you will watch the
tank grow faster and not longer have that hard green spot algae.
a 50% weekly water change, Adding 1/4-1/2 teaspoon KNO3, 2-3x a week
and something like TMG 10mls 3x a week would address most any issues
you may have with growth. Mg is likely the only other item you might
need a tad more of(so adding say 1/4 teraspoon of that once a week
after the water change will take care of that along with the levels in
the tap and the TMG which has a little Mg/K as well.


Thanks Tom,

I add about 1-2 ppm of Phosphate a week. Water changes are within spec
(finally). Not sure about the Mg, I add 25/700*2 Tbsp weekly. (Hmm..
according to the Gaddulator, not nearly enough). I know my KNo3 is on the
low side. I really can't complain about the growth though.



  #7   Report Post  
Old 18-07-2006, 03:40 AM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants
 
Posts: n/a
Default Best way to diffuse CO2 into Aquarium?

CO2 30ppm is fine for any fish.

Well I do a 75% water change every third day or so. (I use a Python
which makes water changing very easy.)


Then you no longer need to test for the NO3 etc if you do more than 50%
weekly.

My pH is always around 6.2. I dose
with KNO3 about 3/4 teaspoon twice a week or so. I don't want to go too
high with it as I've heard anything above 20 ppm is not good for the fish.


This is not true and unfounded, basically pure speculation and no
research into the issue whatsoever with respect to KNO3.

It's that matter or fact and that simple.

How do I know?
Because I've done wide ranges of KNO3 dosing and measure fish and
shrimp effects.

I've gone to 120ppm + of NO3 derived from KNO3 without any issues to
Apistos, Rare plecos, Discus, SAE's, Cardnials, Rummy's, Emporers,
Pencil fish, Dojo's, stingrays, cory cats, synodontis, a dozen tetras,
hatchets etc etc etc.

No issues after a week.

Shrimp: amano shrimp died (LD 50) after 4 days at this concentration.
No fish losses or decernable health issues.

When I started to add more KNO3 it would climb to near 40ppm. Are you
saying that the test kits/strips that say 20- 30 ppm are not that accurate?


Test strips?(shudder).......

Hoohoo, hheee, hahahaha, hak cough hack..........
Errr, yep...............

How should I judge then? Never tried the 'black bag' approach, I'll buy
some tomorrow and give it a try. Thanks for the help.

JC


Well, the simple answer is since you are doing water changes, say 50% a
week, you will never buld beyond 2x the weekly dosing.

So if you dose 40ppm a week, if no plant uptake occurs at all, the max
build up will be 80ppm after several weeks.

Larger % will drop this closer to 40ppm obviously.
More frequent water changes will also reduce this.

In general, 30ppm a week is plenty for most.

Clean the filters good and gravel etc also.

Regards,
Tom Barr

www.BarrReport.com

  #8   Report Post  
Old 18-07-2006, 03:24 PM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants
Jim Conklin
 
Posts: n/a
Default Best way to diffuse CO2 into Aquarium?


wrote in message
ups.com...
CO2 30ppm is fine for any fish.

Well I do a 75% water change every third day or so. (I use a Python
which makes water changing very easy.)


Then you no longer need to test for the NO3 etc if you do more than 50%
weekly.

My pH is always around 6.2. I dose
with KNO3 about 3/4 teaspoon twice a week or so. I don't want to go too
high with it as I've heard anything above 20 ppm is not good for the
fish.


This is not true and unfounded, basically pure speculation and no
research into the issue whatsoever with respect to KNO3.

It's that matter or fact and that simple.

How do I know?
Because I've done wide ranges of KNO3 dosing and measure fish and
shrimp effects.

I've gone to 120ppm + of NO3 derived from KNO3 without any issues to
Apistos, Rare plecos, Discus, SAE's, Cardnials, Rummy's, Emporers,
Pencil fish, Dojo's, stingrays, cory cats, synodontis, a dozen tetras,
hatchets etc etc etc.

No issues after a week.

Shrimp: amano shrimp died (LD 50) after 4 days at this concentration.
No fish losses or decernable health issues.

When I started to add more KNO3 it would climb to near 40ppm. Are you
saying that the test kits/strips that say 20- 30 ppm are not that
accurate?


Test strips?(shudder).......

Hoohoo, hheee, hahahaha, hak cough hack..........
Errr, yep...............

How should I judge then? Never tried the 'black bag' approach, I'll
buy
some tomorrow and give it a try. Thanks for the help.

JC


Well, the simple answer is since you are doing water changes, say 50% a
week, you will never buld beyond 2x the weekly dosing.

So if you dose 40ppm a week, if no plant uptake occurs at all, the max
build up will be 80ppm after several weeks.

Larger % will drop this closer to 40ppm obviously.
More frequent water changes will also reduce this.

In general, 30ppm a week is plenty for most.

Clean the filters good and gravel etc also.

Regards,
Tom Barr

www.BarrReport.com


Thanks again, I'll give it a try. I feel strange adding KNO3 to 30-40 ppm.
But I'll give it a try and report back.

Jim


  #9   Report Post  
Old 18-07-2006, 07:49 PM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants
 
Posts: n/a
Default Best way to diffuse CO2 into Aquarium?

You are only adding 10-11ppm at a time, 2-3x a week.
Not 30-40ppm all at once.

Regards,
Tom Barr

www.BarrReport.com

Jim Conklin wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
CO2 30ppm is fine for any fish.

Well I do a 75% water change every third day or so. (I use a Python
which makes water changing very easy.)


Then you no longer need to test for the NO3 etc if you do more than 50%
weekly.

My pH is always around 6.2. I dose
with KNO3 about 3/4 teaspoon twice a week or so. I don't want to go too
high with it as I've heard anything above 20 ppm is not good for the
fish.


This is not true and unfounded, basically pure speculation and no
research into the issue whatsoever with respect to KNO3.

It's that matter or fact and that simple.

How do I know?
Because I've done wide ranges of KNO3 dosing and measure fish and
shrimp effects.

I've gone to 120ppm + of NO3 derived from KNO3 without any issues to
Apistos, Rare plecos, Discus, SAE's, Cardnials, Rummy's, Emporers,
Pencil fish, Dojo's, stingrays, cory cats, synodontis, a dozen tetras,
hatchets etc etc etc.

No issues after a week.

Shrimp: amano shrimp died (LD 50) after 4 days at this concentration.
No fish losses or decernable health issues.

When I started to add more KNO3 it would climb to near 40ppm. Are you
saying that the test kits/strips that say 20- 30 ppm are not that
accurate?


Test strips?(shudder).......

Hoohoo, hheee, hahahaha, hak cough hack..........
Errr, yep...............

How should I judge then? Never tried the 'black bag' approach, I'll
buy
some tomorrow and give it a try. Thanks for the help.

JC


Well, the simple answer is since you are doing water changes, say 50% a
week, you will never buld beyond 2x the weekly dosing.

So if you dose 40ppm a week, if no plant uptake occurs at all, the max
build up will be 80ppm after several weeks.

Larger % will drop this closer to 40ppm obviously.
More frequent water changes will also reduce this.

In general, 30ppm a week is plenty for most.

Clean the filters good and gravel etc also.

Regards,
Tom Barr

www.BarrReport.com


Thanks again, I'll give it a try. I feel strange adding KNO3 to 30-40 ppm.
But I'll give it a try and report back.

Jim




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