Hi,

Sorry about the crosspost.....

Im in the UK and im after some PMDD but im having trouble getting some of
the ingredients. Is there anyone out there who would be willing to ship some
to me, either from within the uk or from the ROW.

Is it likely that dosing PMDD may help with my problem of BBA? Ive got a
160litre tank, dosing iron and potassium every other day (25ml of the
fertiliser which contains .1% iron), diy Co2 at about 20ppm, 120 watts of
6500k lighting, using a nitrate and phosphate filter on my tap water and
Rowaphos in my tank (about 10ppm nitrate) Im getting BBA on most of my slow
growing plants and on the tops of my vallis. Im also getting the odd bit of
green hair algae on glass and rocks and plants.

Any ideas

Mark

In article ,
"Mark Trueman" wrote:

Hi,

Sorry about the crosspost.....

Im in the UK and im after some PMDD but im having trouble getting some of
the ingredients. Is there anyone out there who would be willing to ship some
to me, either from within the uk or from the ROW.

Is it likely that dosing PMDD may help with my problem of BBA? Ive got a
160litre tank, dosing iron and potassium every other day (25ml of the
fertiliser which contains .1% iron), diy Co2 at about 20ppm, 120 watts of
6500k lighting, using a nitrate and phosphate filter on my tap water and
Rowaphos in my tank (about 10ppm nitrate) Im getting BBA on most of my slow
growing plants and on the tops of my vallis. Im also getting the odd bit of
green hair algae on glass and rocks and plants.

The suggestion has been made that setting your lights to turn off for an
hour in the middle of the day inhibits algae growth without affecting
plants or fish. Easy to try, easy to reverse, very cheap. We have an
ancistrus catfish so the small amount of algae we have is viewed as
food. If it increases we simply stop the algae wafers for a while.

Peter

--
Peter Ashby
Wellcome Trust Biocentre
University of Dundee, Scotland
Reverse the Spam and remove to email me.

Xref: 127.0.0.1 rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc:136791 rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants:65178

Mark Trueman wrote:

Is it likely that dosing PMDD may help with my problem of BBA? Ive got a
160litre tank, dosing iron and potassium every other day (25ml of the
fertiliser which contains .1% iron), diy Co2 at about 20ppm, 120 watts of
6500k lighting, using a nitrate and phosphate filter on my tap water and
Rowaphos in my tank (about 10ppm nitrate) Im getting BBA on most of my slow
growing plants and on the tops of my vallis. Im also getting the odd bit of
green hair algae on glass and rocks and plants.

In my tank, BBA seemed to disappear when I got my nitrate up from below 5ppm to
about 10ppm. Hair algae tends to appear when my Iron is too high. Your mileage
may vary.

The suggestion has been made that setting your lights to turn off for an
hour in the middle of the day inhibits algae growth without affecting
plants or fish. Easy to try, easy to reverse, very cheap. We have an
ancistrus catfish so the small amount of algae we have is viewed as
food. If it increases we simply stop the algae wafers for a while.

I already do this hour off in the day thing, might try increasing the
duration, i currently do 5 hours in the morn and 5 hours in the afternoon
with an hour break in the middle, maybe 4.5 hours either side of a 2 hour
break??

Is it worth getting a phosphate test kit?

"Mark Trueman" wrote in message ...
Hi,

Sorry about the crosspost.....

Im in the UK and im after some PMDD but im having trouble getting some of
the ingredients. Is there anyone out there who would be willing to ship some
to me, either from within the uk or from the ROW.

Check post by myself and Wayne on TropicalFishCenter forums.
There are suppliers in the UK. They sell everything you need.

Is it likely that dosing PMDD may help with my problem of BBA?

It can greatly help improve plant growth.
That, with adding enough CO2 can stop new BBA growth.
You may want to alter the routine and amounts but the general dosing
is okay if you have lower lighting. PO4 will run too low if you have a
fully planted tank and there's none in the tap water and you seldom do
water changes with the tap etc. PO4 is not bad.

Most every BBA case I've seen, gotten rid of, etc has had poor CO2
associated with it.
You'll need to trim off all the BBA, or soak the infected parts in a
20:1 water/bleach dip for 1-2 minutes , then correct the conditions so
that new growth doesn't appear again.
SAE's are good herbivores for BBA generally.

Ive got a
160litre tank, dosing iron and potassium every other day (25ml of the
fertiliser which contains .1% iron), diy Co2 at about 20ppm,

There it is. Poor CO2 levels I'd say at least some of the time.
Check the CO2 level at night before the lights go off. Check near the
end of thre week before a Brew change. Change the bottles every week
etc. You likely do not have enough CO2 and it's rather hard to over
dose with the DIY.

120 watts of
6500k lighting, using a nitrate and phosphate filter on my tap water

Get rid of those, they are removing the two main things you need for
good plant growth after CO2.

and
Rowaphos in my tank (about 10ppm nitrate) Im getting BBA on most of my slow
growing plants and on the tops of my vallis. Im also getting the odd bit of
green hair algae on glass and rocks and plants.

Any ideas

Mark

You'll need to keep the CO2 between 20-30ppm at all times when the
lights are on.
You'll need to add the following if and only if you can get the CO2
issue dealt with:
2x a week 1/4 teaspoon of KNO3
1/2 teaspoon of K2SO4(once a week only after 50% weekly water change)
3 rice grains worth of KH2PO4 2x a week.
7-8 mls of trace element mix (iron etc) 2x a week

Add the above to your tank for 3 weeks and up it to 3x a week perhaps
if things are growing good.
CO2 is the big issue here. You need to remove the algae that's there
now. Then you correct the conditions so no new growth appears.

By doing the routine above for the nutrients, you will not have
problems with having enough nutrients.
Having too little is as bad and is more common a cause of algae than
too much of something.

Check your tap water by giving them a call and ask for the NO3 and the
PO4 levels delivered. You might need not to add KNO3 etc if it's high
in the tap. Then you don't add that, just the others. Same thing if
PO4 is high etc.
Water change resets the tank and adding the nutrients in the ratio and
volumes listed about will yield good growth.

Good plant growth is your best defense from all types of algae.


Regards,
Tom Barr

Tom,

Thanks for the excellent help. Thats the best ive seen it explained.
And thanks for pointing out the tropical fish center forums, didnt
even know they were there. Ive posted some stuff in your text....


You'll need to keep the CO2 between 20-30ppm at all times when the
lights are on.

Ive just ordered a regulator and flowmeter from a welding supply shop
(£50) and am going to be getting a co2 bottle sometime in the next
week (£40). I'll try to make a good diffuser for it, ive got some
ideas that i will try out. Whats the best kind for getting co2 levels
up to 30ppm? I currently use a bell system but i figure this isnt the
best way when using a pressurised system. I have an internal power
filter with a venturi valve but might be convinced to get an external
cannister if it will prove easier. I wont be beaten by this BBA, not
at any cost!!

Check your tap water by giving them a call and ask for the NO3 and the
PO4 levels delivered.

Ive got details from the water board, NO3 is between 30 and 50ppm,
depending on time of year (fertilisers running into our rivers etc)
and PO4 is about 0.5 ppm
I take it i should dose just the k2so4 and flourish and use the water
changes to add NO3 and PO4. I currently do a 33% water change weekly,
using the water filter to bring NO3 down to about 10ppm and remove PO4
completely. Should i do away with the filter and go with the 30ppm
NO3/.5ppm PO4?

Is my lighting OK? 120 watts over 35 gallons. Thats about 3.5 wpg. I
take it that is fine. Maybe i should swap a couple of tubes for newer
ones, they are about 6 months old now. Whats the best tube to get?

Should i just be dosing Seachem Flourish or should i add some Leaf
Zone (just contains Iron and Potassium) daily (as Wayne does - i
think)

I think thats all for now, thanks again for your help.

Mark

In article ,
"Mark Trueman" wrote:


Is it worth getting a phosphate test kit?

Could be, but only if you have a feasible solution if you find it to be
high, otherwise you will just give yourself an ulcer.

Peter

--
Peter Ashby
Wellcome Trust Biocentre
University of Dundee, Scotland
Reverse the Spam and remove to email me.

week (£40). I'll try to make a good diffuser for it, ive got some
ideas that i will try out. Whats the best kind for getting co2 levels
up to 30ppm? I currently use a bell system but i figure this isnt the
best way when using a pressurised system. I have an internal power
filter with a venturi valve but might be convinced to get an external
cannister if it will prove easier. I wont be beaten by this BBA, not
at any cost!!

A simple powerhead bubbling the gas up into the impeller region will
dissolve well. There are a few ideas on the Krib as well.

Check your tap water by giving them a call and ask for the NO3 and the
PO4 levels delivered.

Ive got details from the water board, NO3 is between 30 and 50ppm,
depending on time of year (fertilisers running into our rivers etc)
and PO4 is about 0.5 ppm

Well, pass on the NO3 dosing for the water change but you will need a
dosing 1/2 way through the week. About the 3-4th day but that's all.
Same for the PO4. One dose a week about 3-4 days after the water
change.

That's based on a 50% weekly water change.
You might want to add a bit more PO4 around 2 days after the water
change and the 4th day.

I take it i should dose just the k2so4 and flourish and use the water
changes to add NO3 and PO4. I currently do a 33% water change weekly,
using the water filter to bring NO3 down to about 10ppm and remove PO4
completely. Should i do away with the filter and go with the 30ppm
NO3/.5ppm PO4?

Yes.
Why take it out then add it back again?
I think about 1/2 way, you'll run out of NO3 and after 1-2 days you'll
be out of PO4 doing a 50% weekly water change.
You'll still need to top off during the week.
K2SO4 definitely will be needed after the water change only. Traces
2-3x a week.

Is my lighting OK? 120 watts over 35 gallons. Thats about 3.5 wpg. I
take it that is fine. Maybe i should swap a couple of tubes for newer
ones, they are about 6 months old now. Whats the best tube to get?

Not sure over there. I like triton's for regular FL's tubes. I mix
with a cheap bulb from a hardware store.

Should i just be dosing Seachem Flourish or should i add some Leaf
Zone (just contains Iron and Potassium) daily (as Wayne does - i
think)

Either.
Regfards,
Tom Barr
I think thats all for now, thanks again for your help.

Mark

(Mark Trueman) wrote in message . com...
Tom,

Thanks for the excellent help. Thats the best ive seen it explained.
And thanks for pointing out the tropical fish center forums, didnt
even know they were there. Ive posted some stuff in your text....


You'll need to keep the CO2 between 20-30ppm at all times when the
lights are on.

Ive just ordered a regulator and flowmeter from a welding supply shop
(£50) and am going to be getting a co2 bottle sometime in the next
week (£40). I'll try to make a good diffuser for it, ive got some
ideas that i will try out. Whats the best kind for getting co2 levels
up to 30ppm? I currently use a bell system but i figure this isnt the
best way when using a pressurised system. I have an internal power
filter with a venturi valve but might be convinced to get an external
cannister if it will prove easier. I wont be beaten by this BBA, not
at any cost!!

Check your tap water by giving them a call and ask for the NO3 and the
PO4 levels delivered.

Ive got details from the water board, NO3 is between 30 and 50ppm,
depending on time of year (fertilisers running into our rivers etc)
and PO4 is about 0.5 ppm
I take it i should dose just the k2so4 and flourish and use the water
changes to add NO3 and PO4. I currently do a 33% water change weekly,
using the water filter to bring NO3 down to about 10ppm and remove PO4
completely. Should i do away with the filter and go with the 30ppm
NO3/.5ppm PO4?

Is my lighting OK? 120 watts over 35 gallons. Thats about 3.5 wpg. I
take it that is fine. Maybe i should swap a couple of tubes for newer
ones, they are about 6 months old now. Whats the best tube to get?

Should i just be dosing Seachem Flourish or should i add some Leaf
Zone (just contains Iron and Potassium) daily (as Wayne does - i
think)

I think thats all for now, thanks again for your help.

Mark

Hi Mark, I'm the Wayne who posted at TFC

I'd like to add that I don't use the Flourish/Leaf Zone combo anymore.
I really don't like the standard Flourish product at all. After some
experimentation I concluded that it absolutely sucks unless you add
another fert containing iron EDTA (I tried a few).

Maybe it works well in conjunction with the Flourish Iron, but I'm not
interested in finding out, off-the shelf traces are overpriced as it
is without paying twice.

Tom has written some interesting stuff about iron, maybe he would like
to comment on the iron content in the Seachem ferts, how long it stays
available compared to iron EDTA etc?

I use the macro powders and Kent FP now, following Tom's dosing
guidelines, and things couldn't be better. 500ml of Kent is £8.50ish
from aquatics-online.co.uk.

I'll probably get some flak over my comments as Flourish seems to be
hugely popular in the US, but I'm curious to hear if anyone else has
had a similar experience with it.

Regards
Wayne

I'll probably get some flak over my comments as Flourish seems to be
hugely popular in the US, but I'm curious to hear if anyone else has
had a similar experience with it.

Thanks for your input Wayne. It appears to be difficult to get hold of
flourish in this country anyway, I don't think Shirley aquatics sell it any
more (as far as I can tell from their website) and I cant find any other
place that stocks it. I've ordered from aquatics online before and found
them to be excellent so I will try the Kent stuff. I'd actually looked at
buying that stuff before, now I will definitely get some.

My only question is about the Kent stuff. They also do a "Plant Growth
developer" which is described as,

"This product provides bio-available nitrogen, magnesium and micronutrients
for lush freshwater plant growth . Contains no phosphates to cause unwanted
algae growth"

I see it provides magnesium, is this something I need to add if I only use
Kent Freshwater Plant Supplement? If I need to provide it then what trace
element am I after, something with Mg in it I assume. Actually, reading the
details on the Kent website, it says that FPS contains magnesium so I assume
that it contains enough Mg and will suffice on its own?

Over the next week or so I am going to do the following, so any advice as to
anything I could do to improve matters as I go along would be useful. Maybe
I've got it all sussed now though. Hopefully!! As the large majority of my
plants are now coated in at least a small amount of bba, I intend to remove
all my plants and do a bleach treatment on them. I'm also going to do the
same to my bogwood, rocks and the filter/heater parts. This should kill off
all the algae that is attached (although I realise that there will still be
algal spores (or whatever the correct name is) in the water column). I'm
also going to buy a large amount of plants from an online store and try to
arrange them a bit better; my current setup is a bit too "standard" in that
its mostly symmetrical, something that I now know is not particularly
pleasing to the eye. (this is my first ever tank after all). I also think I
might need some more plants, I lost a lot of foliage from cutting back the
bba covered leaves.

Then I will put the plants back in, set up the CO2 and start using PMDD,
hopefully with success!! I'll get some before, during and after photos and
stick them on a website, along with this correspondence if that is ok with
everyone. BBA is the scourge of many aquarists (especially in the UK) and
ive learned a lot from you guys so it would be great to be able to get this
info available to more people.

Thanks again for your help

Mark

"Mark Trueman" wrote in message ...

Thanks for your input Wayne. It appears to be difficult to get hold of
flourish in this country anyway, I don't think Shirley aquatics sell it any
more (as far as I can tell from their website) and I cant find any other
place that stocks it.

They sell a lot of other products that are not on their site. They
sell (or did last time I rang them) all the Seachem stuff.

My only question is about the Kent stuff. They also do a "Plant Growth
developer" which is described as,

"This product provides bio-available nitrogen, magnesium and micronutrients
for lush freshwater plant growth . Contains no phosphates to cause unwanted
algae growth"

You don't need that, or their blackwater expert which they try to hawk
with the other 2. They're after your £. You can buy Epsom Salts
cheap and add that for magnesium if you think you need it.

BTW, has anyone seen the new range of Kent plant products advertised
on their site? Seems there's a bottle of something for every element
in the periodic table - and some more besides

Wayne