I've been doing a bit of research on how I want to setup my new planted
tank. It seems like there are two directions to go in, Low Tech and High
Tech. Low tech consisting of nothing special in the soil, no undergravel
heating, basic lighting, no CO2, no daily dosing, and sometimes no
filtration. It looks like people have success with this, slow growth, but
it seems to work. High tech consists of special soil, undergravel heating,
good lighting, CO2 injection, dosing, and tons of filtration. However, what
about Medium tech? The tank that would best fit my pocket and needs would
consists of:

standard gravel mixed half half with fluorite or laterite (can't remember
the difference) to cut down cost
undergravel heating (I can get these cheap)
good lighting (this I can build myself so lots of light is not a problem)
no CO2 injection
dosing, preferably not
tons of filtration (this I can also do myself so I can add as much
filtration as is necassary)

Basically I would take a position somewhere mid point between Low and High
tech, by adding better soil, undergravel heating, better lights, a little
bit of dosing and filtration to a low tech tank, but still staying away from
daily dosing and co2 injection.

So how does that sound? Could I expect this to work. I don't mind sticking
to the easier plants and all I expect of them is that they grow, but their
rate of growth I'm not too concerned about (I basically don't want them to
die or always stay the same). Anybody else tried something similar, what
kind of growth did you achieve, did it last?

Thanks for any feedback,
Harry




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High light and no CO2 is a bad idea...you could also do DIY CO2....its almost
free...

Harry Muscle wrote:

I've been doing a bit of research on how I want to setup my new planted
tank. It seems like there are two directions to go in, Low Tech and High
Tech. Low tech consisting of nothing special in the soil, no undergravel
heating, basic lighting, no CO2, no daily dosing, and sometimes no
filtration. It looks like people have success with this, slow growth, but
it seems to work. High tech consists of special soil, undergravel heating,
good lighting, CO2 injection, dosing, and tons of filtration. However, what
about Medium tech? The tank that would best fit my pocket and needs would
consists of:

standard gravel mixed half half with fluorite or laterite (can't remember
the difference) to cut down cost
undergravel heating (I can get these cheap)
good lighting (this I can build myself so lots of light is not a problem)
no CO2 injection
dosing, preferably not
tons of filtration (this I can also do myself so I can add as much
filtration as is necassary)

Basically I would take a position somewhere mid point between Low and High
tech, by adding better soil, undergravel heating, better lights, a little
bit of dosing and filtration to a low tech tank, but still staying away from
daily dosing and co2 injection.

So how does that sound? Could I expect this to work. I don't mind sticking
to the easier plants and all I expect of them is that they grow, but their
rate of growth I'm not too concerned about (I basically don't want them to
die or always stay the same). Anybody else tried something similar, what
kind of growth did you achieve, did it last?

Thanks for any feedback,
Harry

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"Rich Conley" wrote in message
...
High light and no CO2 is a bad idea...you could also do DIY CO2....its
almost
free...


Why? Lots of algea? That's the first thing that comes to my mind.

Thanks,
Harry

P.S. DIY CO2 seems like too much hassle. I'd rather spend the money on
pressurized CO2 than spend the time on DIY CO2, however, overall, I would
like to stay away from CO2 if possible.




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Exactly...lost of light, and the plants and no CO2 means the plants become
CO2 limited from growing fast..and cant use all the nutrients in the
water...so the algae do....algae soup.....

I use the DIY jello recipe...I touch the bottle once a month...absolutely no
hastle whatsoever.

Harry Muscle wrote:

"Rich Conley" wrote in message
...
High light and no CO2 is a bad idea...you could also do DIY CO2....its
almost
free...


Why? Lots of algea? That's the first thing that comes to my mind.

Thanks,
Harry

P.S. DIY CO2 seems like too much hassle. I'd rather spend the money on
pressurized CO2 than spend the time on DIY CO2, however, overall, I would
like to stay away from CO2 if possible.

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"Rich Conley" wrote in message
...
Exactly...lost of light, and the plants and no CO2 means the plants become
CO2 limited from growing fast..and cant use all the nutrients in the
water...so the algae do....algae soup.....

I use the DIY jello recipe...I touch the bottle once a month...absolutely
no
hastle whatsoever.



Never heard of the jello recipe, could you point me to a place on the web
that would outline it a bit more? Also, what about PH swings, I've always
been worried about greater PH swings with DIY stuff as compared to
compressed.

Thanks,
Harry




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Basically I use knox jello....a cup of sugar...mix in hot water...poor water
into coke bottle...put in fridge till it gets hard....then put an inch of warm
water and yeast. It doesnt put out as high levels of CO2 as the "normal"
methods...but it lasts forever....takes the yeast a while to eat through...

PH swings dont seem to be bad.....I let the new batch go for like 2 hours before
I swith the bottles...jsut so I'm sure its actually producing CO2....I dont
really see any swings...any Day-night swings dont seem to effect the fish...but
I dont measure, so I cant tell you what they are...

With high light, CO2...actually keeps PH crashes from happening. In fertilized
high-light tanks, the plants will eat all the carbonate in the water, if you
dont have CO2...and your PH will crash...CO2 keeps the plants from eating the
carbonate.

Harry Muscle wrote:

"Rich Conley" wrote in message
...
Exactly...lost of light, and the plants and no CO2 means the plants become
CO2 limited from growing fast..and cant use all the nutrients in the
water...so the algae do....algae soup.....

I use the DIY jello recipe...I touch the bottle once a month...absolutely
no
hastle whatsoever.


Never heard of the jello recipe, could you point me to a place on the web
that would outline it a bit more? Also, what about PH swings, I've always
been worried about greater PH swings with DIY stuff as compared to
compressed.

Thanks,
Harry

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When I was in High School I buit a couple of terariums as a since project.
One was tthe control and the other had this type of CO2 gen in it. Hadn't
thought of doing this for an aquarium. BTW the terarium with the CO2 source
grew about twice as fast as the control, Plants were greener and healthier.

"Rich Conley" wrote in message
...
Basically I use knox jello....a cup of sugar...mix in hot water...poor
water
into coke bottle...put in fridge till it gets hard....then put an inch of
warm
water and yeast. It doesnt put out as high levels of CO2 as the "normal"
methods...but it lasts forever....takes the yeast a while to eat
through...

PH swings dont seem to be bad.....I let the new batch go for like 2 hours
before
I swith the bottles...jsut so I'm sure its actually producing CO2....I
dont
really see any swings...any Day-night swings dont seem to effect the
fish...but
I dont measure, so I cant tell you what they are...

With high light, CO2...actually keeps PH crashes from happening. In
fertilized
high-light tanks, the plants will eat all the carbonate in the water, if
you
dont have CO2...and your PH will crash...CO2 keeps the plants from eating
the
carbonate.

Harry Muscle wrote:

"Rich Conley" wrote in message
...
Exactly...lost of light, and the plants and no CO2 means the plants
become
CO2 limited from growing fast..and cant use all the nutrients in the
water...so the algae do....algae soup.....

I use the DIY jello recipe...I touch the bottle once a
month...absolutely
no
hastle whatsoever.


Never heard of the jello recipe, could you point me to a place on the
web
that would outline it a bit more? Also, what about PH swings, I've
always
been worried about greater PH swings with DIY stuff as compared to
compressed.

Thanks,
Harry

-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

"Rich Conley" wrote in message
...
Basically I use knox jello....a cup of sugar...mix in hot water...poor
water
into coke bottle...put in fridge till it gets hard....then put an inch of
warm
water and yeast. It doesnt put out as high levels of CO2 as the "normal"
methods...but it lasts forever....takes the yeast a while to eat
through...

PH swings dont seem to be bad.....I let the new batch go for like 2 hours
before
I swith the bottles...jsut so I'm sure its actually producing CO2....I
dont
really see any swings...any Day-night swings dont seem to effect the
fish...but
I dont measure, so I cant tell you what they are...

With high light, CO2...actually keeps PH crashes from happening. In
fertilized
high-light tanks, the plants will eat all the carbonate in the water, if
you
dont have CO2...and your PH will crash...CO2 keeps the plants from eating
the
carbonate.



Try adding a little sugar to the yeast and water added on top of the Jell-O.
You can have the best of both worlds...quick start and a long even run.

Suggestion... from experience. Don't be lazy and mix everything in the
bottle. Jell-O will foam up if you shake it hard enough...;-)

Bob

Sorry went the wrong place..:-(

"Robert Flory" wrote in message
gy.com...

"Rich Conley" wrote in message
...
Basically I use knox jello....a cup of sugar...mix in hot water...poor
water
into coke bottle...put in fridge till it gets hard....then put an inch
of
warm
water and yeast. It doesnt put out as high levels of CO2 as the "normal"
methods...but it lasts forever....takes the yeast a while to eat
through...

PH swings dont seem to be bad.....I let the new batch go for like 2
hours
before
I swith the bottles...jsut so I'm sure its actually producing CO2....I
dont
really see any swings...any Day-night swings dont seem to effect the
fish...but
I dont measure, so I cant tell you what they are...

With high light, CO2...actually keeps PH crashes from happening. In
fertilized
high-light tanks, the plants will eat all the carbonate in the water, if
you
dont have CO2...and your PH will crash...CO2 keeps the plants from
eating
the
carbonate.



Try adding a little sugar to the yeast and water added on top of the
Jell-O.
You can have the best of both worlds...quick start and a long even run.

Suggestion... from experience. Don't be lazy and mix everything in the
bottle. Jell-O will foam up if you shake it hard enough...;-)

Bob

Hi All,

My .02 on Co2. YMMV!

I found I had to get a fair amount of co2 into the tank in order to really
get a lot of extra growth. I tried a bunch of fancy DIY co2 stuff, and was
never happy with the amount of labor and reliability vs added growth. My
ambient temps vary a lot, and that always influenced co2 production, and
hence pH fluctuated.

I also used a compressed system, and tried both a needle valve and a pH
based controller. The pH controller by far worked the best. I was using a
diffusion chamber in-line with a canister filter.

Anyway, over all I found co2 was too much hassle for me. I had to really
watch all the trace nutrients, iron especially. When I stayed on top of it,
HUGE growth. If I fell off, the algae would quickly get the upper hand. I
find now that I get a nice level of growth with no co2, and the maintenance
level is easy. Now that my tank is established and full of plants, I don't
want fast growth anymore, it just means more work.

Mind you, this is from someone who has abandoned a lot of tech. I don't use
my UV sterilizer or RO filter anymore. I just don't find it necessary.

Make sure that your water is medium hard, or as hard as your fish like it.
The co2 produces carbonic acid, which in turn eats at your hardness. If you
have soft water, a pH crash may occur.

Jonathan

"Harry Muscle" wrote in message
...
"Rich Conley" wrote in message
...
High light and no CO2 is a bad idea...you could also do DIY CO2....its
almost
free...


Why? Lots of algea? That's the first thing that comes to my mind.

Thanks,
Harry

P.S. DIY CO2 seems like too much hassle. I'd rather spend the money on
pressurized CO2 than spend the time on DIY CO2, however, overall, I would
like to stay away from CO2 if possible.




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-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

Yeah..it will foam...but it settles back down in a while...

Robert Flory wrote:

"Rich Conley" wrote in message
...
Basically I use knox jello....a cup of sugar...mix in hot water...poor
water
into coke bottle...put in fridge till it gets hard....then put an inch of
warm
water and yeast. It doesnt put out as high levels of CO2 as the "normal"
methods...but it lasts forever....takes the yeast a while to eat
through...

PH swings dont seem to be bad.....I let the new batch go for like 2 hours
before
I swith the bottles...jsut so I'm sure its actually producing CO2....I
dont
really see any swings...any Day-night swings dont seem to effect the
fish...but
I dont measure, so I cant tell you what they are...

With high light, CO2...actually keeps PH crashes from happening. In
fertilized
high-light tanks, the plants will eat all the carbonate in the water, if
you
dont have CO2...and your PH will crash...CO2 keeps the plants from eating
the
carbonate.



Try adding a little sugar to the yeast and water added on top of the Jell-O.
You can have the best of both worlds...quick start and a long even run.

Suggestion... from experience. Don't be lazy and mix everything in the
bottle. Jell-O will foam up if you shake it hard enough...;-)

Bob

Not if you put it in the freezer to rapid cool it :-)

Bob
"Rich Conley" wrote in message
...
Yeah..it will foam...but it settles back down in a while...

Robert Flory wrote:

"Rich Conley" wrote in message
...
Basically I use knox jello....a cup of sugar...mix in hot water...poor
water
into coke bottle...put in fridge till it gets hard....then put an inch
of
warm
water and yeast. It doesnt put out as high levels of CO2 as the
"normal"
methods...but it lasts forever....takes the yeast a while to eat
through...

PH swings dont seem to be bad.....I let the new batch go for like 2
hours
before
I swith the bottles...jsut so I'm sure its actually producing CO2....I
dont
really see any swings...any Day-night swings dont seem to effect the
fish...but
I dont measure, so I cant tell you what they are...

With high light, CO2...actually keeps PH crashes from happening. In
fertilized
high-light tanks, the plants will eat all the carbonate in the water,
if
you
dont have CO2...and your PH will crash...CO2 keeps the plants from
eating
the
carbonate.



Try adding a little sugar to the yeast and water added on top of the
Jell-O.
You can have the best of both worlds...quick start and a long even run.

Suggestion... from experience. Don't be lazy and mix everything in the
bottle. Jell-O will foam up if you shake it hard enough...;-)

Bob

2 liter bottles dont fit in my freezer standing up..theres a shelf in the way...


Robert Flory wrote:

Not if you put it in the freezer to rapid cool it :-)

Bob
"Rich Conley" wrote in message
...
Yeah..it will foam...but it settles back down in a while...

Robert Flory wrote:

"Rich Conley" wrote in message
...
Basically I use knox jello....a cup of sugar...mix in hot water...poor
water
into coke bottle...put in fridge till it gets hard....then put an inch
of
warm
water and yeast. It doesnt put out as high levels of CO2 as the
"normal"
methods...but it lasts forever....takes the yeast a while to eat
through...

PH swings dont seem to be bad.....I let the new batch go for like 2
hours
before
I swith the bottles...jsut so I'm sure its actually producing CO2....I
dont
really see any swings...any Day-night swings dont seem to effect the
fish...but
I dont measure, so I cant tell you what they are...

With high light, CO2...actually keeps PH crashes from happening. In
fertilized
high-light tanks, the plants will eat all the carbonate in the water,
if
you
dont have CO2...and your PH will crash...CO2 keeps the plants from
eating
the
carbonate.



Try adding a little sugar to the yeast and water added on top of the
Jell-O.
You can have the best of both worlds...quick start and a long even run.

Suggestion... from experience. Don't be lazy and mix everything in the
bottle. Jell-O will foam up if you shake it hard enough...;-)

Bob

get a new freezer ???

--
Richard Reynolds




"Rich Conley" wrote in message
...
2 liter bottles dont fit in my freezer standing up..theres a shelf in the way...


Robert Flory wrote:

Not if you put it in the freezer to rapid cool it :-)

Bob
"Rich Conley" wrote in message
...
Yeah..it will foam...but it settles back down in a while...

Robert Flory wrote:

"Rich Conley" wrote in message
...
Basically I use knox jello....a cup of sugar...mix in hot water...poor
water
into coke bottle...put in fridge till it gets hard....then put an inch
of
warm
water and yeast. It doesnt put out as high levels of CO2 as the
"normal"
methods...but it lasts forever....takes the yeast a while to eat
through...

PH swings dont seem to be bad.....I let the new batch go for like 2
hours
before
I swith the bottles...jsut so I'm sure its actually producing CO2....I
dont
really see any swings...any Day-night swings dont seem to effect the
fish...but
I dont measure, so I cant tell you what they are...

With high light, CO2...actually keeps PH crashes from happening. In
fertilized
high-light tanks, the plants will eat all the carbonate in the water,
if
you
dont have CO2...and your PH will crash...CO2 keeps the plants from
eating
the
carbonate.



Try adding a little sugar to the yeast and water added on top of the
Jell-O.
You can have the best of both worlds...quick start and a long even run.

Suggestion... from experience. Don't be lazy and mix everything in the
bottle. Jell-O will foam up if you shake it hard enough...;-)

Bob

I think that would eliminate all the positive aspects of DIY CO2.....

Richard Reynolds wrote:

get a new freezer ???

--
Richard Reynolds


"Rich Conley" wrote in message
...
2 liter bottles dont fit in my freezer standing up..theres a shelf in the way...


Robert Flory wrote:

Not if you put it in the freezer to rapid cool it :-)

Bob
"Rich Conley" wrote in message
...
Yeah..it will foam...but it settles back down in a while...

Robert Flory wrote:

"Rich Conley" wrote in message
...
Basically I use knox jello....a cup of sugar...mix in hot water...poor
water
into coke bottle...put in fridge till it gets hard....then put an inch
of
warm
water and yeast. It doesnt put out as high levels of CO2 as the
"normal"
methods...but it lasts forever....takes the yeast a while to eat
through...

PH swings dont seem to be bad.....I let the new batch go for like 2
hours
before
I swith the bottles...jsut so I'm sure its actually producing CO2....I
dont
really see any swings...any Day-night swings dont seem to effect the
fish...but
I dont measure, so I cant tell you what they are...

With high light, CO2...actually keeps PH crashes from happening. In
fertilized
high-light tanks, the plants will eat all the carbonate in the water,
if
you
dont have CO2...and your PH will crash...CO2 keeps the plants from
eating
the
carbonate.



Try adding a little sugar to the yeast and water added on top of the
Jell-O.
You can have the best of both worlds...quick start and a long even run.

Suggestion... from experience. Don't be lazy and mix everything in the
bottle. Jell-O will foam up if you shake it hard enough...;-)

Bob