Im planning on doing a Co2 setup, yes. If so, what types of lighting would
I need. I would like 3 watts per gallon - or close to it.

You do anything -- metal halide, flourescent, PCF.

3 wpg is a lot of light for a tank this size -- more than it would be for a
smaller tank. Many people find 2 wpg is more than enough for a tank over 100
gallons. Make sure your CO2 system is up and running before you turn all that
light on!

PCFs from AH Supply would work well and be pretty easy, but if it were my tank,
I think I'd go with regular flourescent lights. It would be cheaper, and you'd
have more flexibility that way. If you wanted to start out with less light
until you get more experience, you could, just by leaving a few tubes out. If
you need to reduce the lighting for some reason (going to be away from the tank
on vacation, say), you could. You could create sunrise and sunset effects, by
putting different tubes on different timers. You could replace a few tubes
with "moonlight" bulbs, and be able to watch your tank at night. Etc.


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

I have seven 55 watt CF lamps over my 135 gallon, which is just a bit
taller than the standard 125 gallon size, but which shares the same
footprint. I have two all-glass fixtures that are 36 inches long, and
another three AH supply style kit lamps that are each 24 inches in length.
The All-glass fixtures, which I like a lot by the way, have two lamps per
fixture.

I was able to get by with 220 watts -- the two All-glass fixtures alone--
for the first year. I found that I needed more light as the tank grew, as
they say, shade happens! I think I have about the right amount of light
currently. I assume four 96 watt lamps would do well for you in your tank.
You may wish to use only two or three of them initially, two lamps down
the center of the tank or two lamps towards the rear and 1 lamp as a second
row in front centered with respect to the rear two lamps. As plants grow in,
you could then put in all four. If you put one lamp in the front, centered
on the tank, you may want to put square dowels down on either side of it to
elevate the lamp cabinet slightly off the glass (that I assume you will
have), since it may teeter otherwise. The other lamps will probably match
up with the standard plastic supports supplied on most tanks.

Eventually, my guess is you will want all four 96 watt lamps-- though you
may be able to get by with less. I did for a year.

Congratulations on your new purchase. (I wish I had time for another couple
of large tanks!) -Bruce Geist

Dustin wrote in message
...
Im planning on doing a Co2 setup, yes. If so, what types of lighting
would
I need. I would like 3 watts per gallon - or close to it. That is alot
of
watts, but should I go with ahsupply's compact florescent, or just the
regular 4 or 6 ft shop type florescent?

Im excited haha

Thanks Everyone for your input

"LeighMo" wrote in message
...
I bought a 125 gallon today on sale at the lfs,

Congratulations! A 125 is a nice size for plants, IMO. Six feet long,
18"
wide, just under 2 feet deep. With this size, you can use just about
any
lighting you want. Though, price-wise, flourescent tubes might make the
most
sense.

Are you getting a compressed CO2 system for the tank, too? If not, it's
probably best to keep your lighting levels down at around 2 wpg. 125
gallon is
sort of large for DIY!

Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

Bruce,

Thank You for the advice, do you have any pictures of your tank? or a
website?

I think ill take your advice and go with 4 - 96w setups from ahsupply, 2 -
5000k 2 - 6500k and use only two to begin with.

Why is it so important to have the co2 in with the higher watts? Is there
any website that talks about this? or did i miss this info at the krib?
"Bruce Geist" wrote in message
...
I have seven 55 watt CF lamps over my 135 gallon, which is just a bit
taller than the standard 125 gallon size, but which shares the same
footprint. I have two all-glass fixtures that are 36 inches long, and
another three AH supply style kit lamps that are each 24 inches in length.
The All-glass fixtures, which I like a lot by the way, have two lamps per
fixture.

I was able to get by with 220 watts -- the two All-glass fixtures alone--
for the first year. I found that I needed more light as the tank grew, as
they say, shade happens! I think I have about the right amount of light
currently. I assume four 96 watt lamps would do well for you in your tank.
You may wish to use only two or three of them initially, two lamps down
the center of the tank or two lamps towards the rear and 1 lamp as a
second
row in front centered with respect to the rear two lamps. As plants grow
in,
you could then put in all four. If you put one lamp in the front,
centered
on the tank, you may want to put square dowels down on either side of it
to
elevate the lamp cabinet slightly off the glass (that I assume you will
have), since it may teeter otherwise. The other lamps will probably match
up with the standard plastic supports supplied on most tanks.

Eventually, my guess is you will want all four 96 watt lamps-- though you
may be able to get by with less. I did for a year.

Congratulations on your new purchase. (I wish I had time for another
couple
of large tanks!) -Bruce Geist

Dustin wrote in message
...
Im planning on doing a Co2 setup, yes. If so, what types of lighting
would
I need. I would like 3 watts per gallon - or close to it. That is
alot
of
watts, but should I go with ahsupply's compact florescent, or just the
regular 4 or 6 ft shop type florescent?

Im excited haha

Thanks Everyone for your input

"LeighMo" wrote in message
...
I bought a 125 gallon today on sale at the lfs,

Congratulations! A 125 is a nice size for plants, IMO. Six feet
long,
18"
wide, just under 2 feet deep. With this size, you can use just about
any
lighting you want. Though, price-wise, flourescent tubes might make
the
most
sense.

Are you getting a compressed CO2 system for the tank, too? If not,
it's
probably best to keep your lighting levels down at around 2 wpg. 125
gallon is
sort of large for DIY!

Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

Why is it so important to have the co2 in with the higher watts?

You need to have a balance: light, fertilizer, CO2. Increase one, and you must
increase the others, too, or plants won't grow well and algae will take over
(because of the extra light & nutrients the plants aren't using).

In addition, a high-light tank without CO2 injection can suffer large daily
swings in pH, as the plants strip the CO2 they need out of the water during the
day, then release CO2 back into the water at night.

Here are a couple of links at the Krib:

http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/balance-randall.html

http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/decalcification.html


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

Dustin,

I put a couple of pictures of my tank on the following page.

http://hometown.aol.com/brucekgeist/...e/profile.html

Thanks for your interest. -Bruce Geist

PS: I agree with Leigh's post on getting all the plant nutrients in balance
from the start. Otherwise, you will grow a lot of algae. If you have not
already, take a look at Chuck Gadd's web site-- its a really great resource.
I followed his advise for starting a new tank a couple of years back now.
Here is a link to his site-- its really terrific. You will find a nice
article on starting a new aquarium there, along with the rational Leigh
presented for getting things in balance right away. Here is Chuck's site:
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/

-Bruce


Dustin wrote in message
...
Bruce,

Thank You for the advice, do you have any pictures of your tank? or a
website?

I think ill take your advice and go with 4 - 96w setups from ahsupply, 2 -
5000k 2 - 6500k and use only two to begin with.

Why is it so important to have the co2 in with the higher watts? Is
there
any website that talks about this? or did i miss this info at the krib?
"Bruce Geist" wrote in message
...
I have seven 55 watt CF lamps over my 135 gallon, which is just a bit
taller than the standard 125 gallon size, but which shares the same
footprint. I have two all-glass fixtures that are 36 inches long, and
another three AH supply style kit lamps that are each 24 inches in
length.
The All-glass fixtures, which I like a lot by the way, have two lamps
per
fixture.

I was able to get by with 220 watts -- the two All-glass fixtures
alone--
for the first year. I found that I needed more light as the tank grew,
as
they say, shade happens! I think I have about the right amount of light
currently. I assume four 96 watt lamps would do well for you in your
tank.
You may wish to use only two or three of them initially, two lamps
down
the center of the tank or two lamps towards the rear and 1 lamp as a
second
row in front centered with respect to the rear two lamps. As plants grow
in,
you could then put in all four. If you put one lamp in the front,
centered
on the tank, you may want to put square dowels down on either side of it
to
elevate the lamp cabinet slightly off the glass (that I assume you will
have), since it may teeter otherwise. The other lamps will probably
match
up with the standard plastic supports supplied on most tanks.

Eventually, my guess is you will want all four 96 watt lamps-- though
you
may be able to get by with less. I did for a year.

Congratulations on your new purchase. (I wish I had time for another
couple
of large tanks!) -Bruce Geist

Dustin wrote in message
...
Im planning on doing a Co2 setup, yes. If so, what types of lighting
would
I need. I would like 3 watts per gallon - or close to it. That is
alot
of
watts, but should I go with ahsupply's compact florescent, or just the
regular 4 or 6 ft shop type florescent?

Im excited haha

Thanks Everyone for your input

"LeighMo" wrote in message
...
I bought a 125 gallon today on sale at the lfs,

Congratulations! A 125 is a nice size for plants, IMO. Six feet
long,
18"
wide, just under 2 feet deep. With this size, you can use just
about
any
lighting you want. Though, price-wise, flourescent tubes might make
the
most
sense.

Are you getting a compressed CO2 system for the tank, too? If not,
it's
probably best to keep your lighting levels down at around 2 wpg.
125
gallon is
sort of large for DIY!

Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

Xref: 127.0.0.1 rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants:67511

Thanks Leigh!
I ordered a Co2 System from David Gomberg today

I appreciate all the words of wisdom!

Happy New Year!


"LeighMo" wrote in message
...
Why is it so important to have the co2 in with the higher watts?

You need to have a balance: light, fertilizer, CO2. Increase one, and you
must
increase the others, too, or plants won't grow well and algae will take
over
(because of the extra light & nutrients the plants aren't using).

In addition, a high-light tank without CO2 injection can suffer large
daily
swings in pH, as the plants strip the CO2 they need out of the water
during the
day, then release CO2 back into the water at night.

Here are a couple of links at the Krib:

http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/balance-randall.html

http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/decalcification.html


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

On Wed, 1 Jan 2003 03:41:30 -0800, "Dustin"
wrote:

Thanks Leigh!
I ordered a Co2 System from David Gomberg today

I appreciate all the words of wisdom!

Happy New Year!



Hmm..... which system did you buy? I hope it was not the high
pressure system. Go here to see why
http://www.aquabotanic.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=2272

And IMHO his prices are way too high for what you get. You could
head on over to www.kegworks.com and get a good regulator for $51, you
can build your own reactor and bubble counter, and you can get a good
needle valve for under $20. And you would be set except for the tank.

THanks for the input Cannibul, that I did buy that system. Wish I hadnt
know, maybe I can get a refund.... I dont like the idea of loosing all the
fish...... was it because he didnt have a needle valve, or because the
product is junk?

Thanks,

Dustin
"Cannibul" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 1 Jan 2003 03:41:30 -0800, "Dustin"
wrote:

Thanks Leigh!
I ordered a Co2 System from David Gomberg today

I appreciate all the words of wisdom!

Happy New Year!



Hmm..... which system did you buy? I hope it was not the high
pressure system. Go here to see why
http://www.aquabotanic.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=2272

And IMHO his prices are way too high for what you get. You could
head on over to www.kegworks.com and get a good regulator for $51, you
can build your own reactor and bubble counter, and you can get a good
needle valve for under $20. And you would be set except for the tank.

THanks for the input Cannibul, that I did buy that system. Wish I hadnt
know, maybe I can get a refund.... I dont like the idea of loosing all the
fish...... was it because he didnt have a needle valve, or because the
product is junk?

Did you get the needle valve? Adding a needle valve makes it a "low-pressure"
system. I think that's what most of us who use compress CO2 use.

You always have to watch out for "CO2 dump" when the tank gets empty. When you
see the pressure gauge starting to drop, it's time for a refill. Don't try to
save a penny or two by getting every last molecule of CO2 out of the cylinder.
If you don't have time, turn off the CO2 at the tank valve. Better no CO2 for
a little while than a CO2 dump.

As for the price...yes, if money is an issue, you can rustle up your own system
for cheaper. But a lot of people find compressed gas very intimidating. They
don't know what to get, or how to hook it up. It's worth it, for many people,
to pay a little extra to get a complete system, along with directions for
putting it together and "tech support" if you have problems.


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

LeighMo wrote:

As for the price...yes, if money is an issue, you can rustle up your own system
for cheaper. But a lot of people find compressed gas very intimidating. They
don't know what to get, or how to hook it up. It's worth it, for many people,
to pay a little extra to get a complete system, along with directions for
putting it together and "tech support" if you have problems.

I purchased one of these systems in July (inc. needle valve), and have
been more than pleased with it on my 29 gallon tank. I was willing to
spend a few extra bucks for someone else to figure out all of the
various fitting sizes etc. and save a day of driving from welding shop
to welding shop. YMMV.

How much should I expect to spend on "real" CO2 equipment for my 180 gallon?

I've been using DIY on my smaller tanks and just using the big one as a
nursery because I couldn't bear the though of a) figuring out how to hook up
and maintain seven or eight soda bottles, or b) spending real money.

kush

"You can't have everything - where would you put it?"

Andrew Roberts wrote in message
.. .
LeighMo wrote:

As for the price...yes, if money is an issue, you can rustle up your own
system
for cheaper. But a lot of people find compressed gas very intimidating.
They
don't know what to get, or how to hook it up. It's worth it, for many
people,
to pay a little extra to get a complete system, along with directions
for
putting it together and "tech support" if you have problems.

I purchased one of these systems in July (inc. needle valve), and have
been more than pleased with it on my 29 gallon tank. I was willing to
spend a few extra bucks for someone else to figure out all of the
various fitting sizes etc. and save a day of driving from welding shop
to welding shop. YMMV.

On Thu, 02 Jan 2003 15:06:08 GMT, "kush"
wrote:

How much should I expect to spend on "real" CO2 equipment for my 180 gallon?

I've been using DIY on my smaller tanks and just using the big one as a
nursery because I couldn't bear the though of a) figuring out how to hook up
and maintain seven or eight soda bottles, or b) spending real money.

$100 if you are really good at shopping around and looking for
bargins. $150 if not.

A decent CO2 regulator can be found at almost ANY time on ebay for
$30-40.

Here's one (I don't know the seller, just giving an example) on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=3102858 289

This is the EXACT same regulator I'm using, and the one Dave Gomberg
sells (or at least sold me) for $75 or so...

A CO2 tank should cost you no more than $50.00 or so from your local
gas supplier or welding supply store.

A needle valve can be purchased new for $20.00. I got mine from
Marine Monsters, but I've heard they are having some trouble. If this
is still the case, I know I've seen several other places selling
needle valves for about the same price. I know Robert over at
Aquabotanic sells one for $18.00

A reactor can be made cheap using a small powerhead and a gravel vac
tube.


Chuck Gadd
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua

On Thu, 2 Jan 2003 02:58:26 -0800, "Dustin"
wrote:

THanks for the input Cannibul, that I did buy that system. Wish I hadnt
know, maybe I can get a refund.... I dont like the idea of loosing all the
fish...... was it because he didnt have a needle valve, or because the
product is junk?

The product is perfectly fine. The problem is that the system doesn't
use a needle valve.

But even without a needle valve, the system is SAFE, and works fine.
The issue is what is known as an "end of tank dump". Co2 regulators
are intended to operate with a tank pressure of 800-2000 psi (CO2
pressure will never get that high, it's usually around 800-1000psi).
On the regulator, the high pressure gauge is marked in red from
0-600psi. This is because, when the CO2 runs out, the tank pressure
drops down. The regulator is unable to properly regulate when the
tank pressure is very low. In theory, anything below 600psi is a
problem. In practice, I've run my regulator (from Dave Gomberg) down
to 300-400psi with no "dump". But in any case, once the pressure
drops below the regulators minimum, the regulator looses the ability
to regulate the output properly, and the output pressure will rise.

Since with the "high pressure system" the pressure directly controls
the bubble rate, this rising output pressure results in a CO2
overdose.

At the extreme end, the regulator can completely loose control when
the tank pressure drops very far. At that point, it would vent all
the remaining CO2 in a sudden burst.

For all of these cases, simply adding a needle valve will provide a
safety net.

But, if you keep an eye on the tank pressure, it's easy to notice
BEFORE the tank pressure drops very far. Unlike watching your car's
gas gauge, the CO2 pressure will remain constant (around 800-1000psi
depending on the temp) until the tank is 99% empty. When the CO2 tank
is filled, the CO2 is under pressure, and is in a liquid form. As
long as ANY liquid CO2 remains in the tank, the pressure stays at that
800-1000psi. Once all the liquid is gone, the pressure will start to
drop.

On my tank, with a fairly high CO2 flow rate, I would get about a week
from the time the pressure first started to drop, till it reached the
600psi mark. So even without a needle-valve, if you glance at the
CO2 pressure once every few days, you will see it in time to prevent a
problem.

On my system, with a needle-valve, I intentionally let the pressure
drop all the way down. I run the regulator pressure at about 6psi
normally, and then control the bubble rate with the needle-valve. I
usually have a bubble rate around 2-3 bubble per second. As the tank
pressure dropped below 300psi, the output pressure rose up slowly to
about 15-20psi. I never saw a true "end of tank dump" with a big
spike in output pressure. And the bubble rate (because of the needle
valve) didn't increase much, less than 1 extra bubble per second.

Possibly a bigger issue with the Dave Gomberg high pressure system, if
it's the same as when I bought mine several years ago, is that the
tiny little Eheim diffusor isn't very effective in large tanks. In my
75g, I was unable to get acceptable CO2 levels using it. I ditched
the eheim diffusor, added a needle-valve, and built my DIY reactor,
and I've been very happy ever since.


Chuck Gadd
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua

Thanks. Can you come over to my house and put it all together? I'll go out
to a movie or something because I don't like swearing - at least, not
listening to other people do it.

Chuck Gadd wrote in message
...
On Thu, 02 Jan 2003 15:06:08 GMT, "kush"
wrote:

How much should I expect to spend on "real" CO2 equipment for my 180
gallon?

I've been using DIY on my smaller tanks and just using the big one as a
nursery because I couldn't bear the though of a) figuring out how to hook
up
and maintain seven or eight soda bottles, or b) spending real money.

$100 if you are really good at shopping around and looking for
bargins. $150 if not.

A decent CO2 regulator can be found at almost ANY time on ebay for
$30-40.

Here's one (I don't know the seller, just giving an example) on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=3102858 289

This is the EXACT same regulator I'm using, and the one Dave Gomberg
sells (or at least sold me) for $75 or so...

A CO2 tank should cost you no more than $50.00 or so from your local
gas supplier or welding supply store.

A needle valve can be purchased new for $20.00. I got mine from
Marine Monsters, but I've heard they are having some trouble. If this
is still the case, I know I've seen several other places selling
needle valves for about the same price. I know Robert over at
Aquabotanic sells one for $18.00

A reactor can be made cheap using a small powerhead and a gravel vac
tube.


Chuck Gadd
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua

On Thu, 02 Jan 2003 20:17:31 GMT, "kush"
wrote:

Thanks. Can you come over to my house and put it all together? I'll go out

If you lived close enough, I would!

to a movie or something because I don't like swearing - at least, not
listening to other people do it.

The only part that really involved any swearing for me was finding
tiny little adapters to fit my needle valve to the regulator. Many
of the needle-valves I've seen lately just have hose-barb fittings on
both ends, and most reactors come with hose-barb fittings, so it's
pretty easy.


Chuck Gadd
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua