#1   Report Post  
Old 20-04-2003, 06:16 AM
laz
 
Posts: n/a
Default what do I miss?

Alright good people here is my problem...
I have a 55 G planted tank.
Here are the specs.: ph 7
kh 7
gh10
ammonia 0
nitrates 0
temp ~78-80
water changes 1/3 weekly
CO2 1-2 bubbles / sec (DIY)
fertilization ~ 1cc PMDD and ~1cc Flourish
Iron daily, Flourish ~ 2cc weekly, jobe's stick once a
month
substrate: bottom layer ~1" Laterite, next is
~ 2" Shults' Arcillite substrate ( like baked clay ) used for
aquaplants in ponds, got it from a garden center, on the top of it ~2" of
washed play sand and on the top
of these ~1/2 " of 2-3 mm gravel. ( maybe overkill don't know...)
lights: 220W (Jally A18) 4 X 55 W compact
fluorescent lights, 12 hours daily (7- 7)
filtration: Fluval 304 mainly for bio and
H.O.T Magnum for couple of nights a week with micron
filter. ( no charcoal )
Plants: few Alteranthera sessilis, Java fern, penny, Vallis, Anubias, Water
cabbage, Amazon swords, Aponogeton.
Fish: 1 pictus cat ( lost his friend recently cannot figure out why... )
1 glowlight tetra ( lost her 5 friends within the same time
frame...)
3 Rasboras ( they lost 3 of their friends in the same horror...)
3 Black mollies
2 Clown loaches
3 Dwarf Pleco
2 Oto ( they lost 3 of their friends)
I have no idea what happened I found these poor guys floating one
morning.... It was no fun. :-(
Anyhow here is my question I hope some of you guys with more experience can
help me.
I keep reading about the photosynthesis and how the bubbles forming on the
leafs. I don't have bubbles!
The plants just barely hanging on. They are growing but not to my liking.
Some of the old leafs on the swords turning yellow that according the Krib
might be N deficiency. I put more Jobe's stick to their roots, added 1 more
tablespoon KNO3 to the PMDD but still no bubbles. Increased the time of
lighting still nothing, Doubled the DIY CO2 to 2 bottles, (Setting up fresh
ones every weekend so the CO2 is pretty much constant, I have a good
diffuser, but I tried the CO2 to the Fluval intake as well) but still no
bubbles.
Does it mean that there is no photosynthesis? According the Krib's chart the
CO2 level is ~ 21 mg./l which is pretty high.
So good people out there , What do I miss???
What can I do to make the plants happier?
Any input will be appreciated.
Laz




  #2   Report Post  
Old 20-04-2003, 06:16 AM
Tasslehoff
 
Posts: n/a
Default what do I miss?

Nitrates should be between 5-20ppm. Add some Potassium nitrate (KNO3) or
maybe less than 20% weekly water changes, or aim for slower growth by
lowering CO2 to 15ppm and lighting.

"laz" wrote in message
link.net...
Alright good people here is my problem...
I have a 55 G planted tank.
Here are the specs.: ph 7
kh 7
gh10
ammonia 0
nitrates 0
temp ~78-80
water changes 1/3 weekly
CO2 1-2 bubbles / sec (DIY)
fertilization ~ 1cc PMDD and ~1cc Flourish
Iron daily, Flourish ~ 2cc weekly, jobe's stick once a
month
substrate: bottom layer ~1" Laterite, next

is
~ 2" Shults' Arcillite substrate ( like baked clay ) used for
aquaplants in ponds, got it from a garden center, on the top of it ~2" of
washed play sand and on the

top
of these ~1/2 " of 2-3 mm gravel. ( maybe overkill don't know...)
lights: 220W (Jally A18) 4 X 55 W compact
fluorescent lights, 12 hours daily (7- 7)
filtration: Fluval 304 mainly for bio and
H.O.T Magnum for couple of nights a week with micron
filter. ( no charcoal )
Plants: few Alteranthera sessilis, Java fern, penny, Vallis, Anubias,

Water
cabbage, Amazon swords, Aponogeton.
Fish: 1 pictus cat ( lost his friend recently cannot figure out why... )
1 glowlight tetra ( lost her 5 friends within the same time
frame...)
3 Rasboras ( they lost 3 of their friends in the same horror...)
3 Black mollies
2 Clown loaches
3 Dwarf Pleco
2 Oto ( they lost 3 of their friends)
I have no idea what happened I found these poor guys floating one
morning.... It was no fun. :-(
Anyhow here is my question I hope some of you guys with more experience

can
help me.
I keep reading about the photosynthesis and how the bubbles forming on the
leafs. I don't have bubbles!
The plants just barely hanging on. They are growing but not to my liking.
Some of the old leafs on the swords turning yellow that according the Krib
might be N deficiency. I put more Jobe's stick to their roots, added 1

more
tablespoon KNO3 to the PMDD but still no bubbles. Increased the time of
lighting still nothing, Doubled the DIY CO2 to 2 bottles, (Setting up

fresh
ones every weekend so the CO2 is pretty much constant, I have a good
diffuser, but I tried the CO2 to the Fluval intake as well) but still no
bubbles.
Does it mean that there is no photosynthesis? According the Krib's chart

the
CO2 level is ~ 21 mg./l which is pretty high.
So good people out there , What do I miss???
What can I do to make the plants happier?
Any input will be appreciated.
Laz





  #3   Report Post  
Old 20-04-2003, 06:16 AM
hortonwho
 
Posts: n/a
Default what do I miss?

I'm not an expert, but i have a 55 g with @ 195 watts and mine pearls pretty
good. I don't use a diy co2 buta tank and regulator @ 1 bubble /3 sec. i'm
not big on diffusers i use na reactor i made from a old gravel siphon anda
power head.works great and hardly any co2 bubbles make it to the
surface.what are u using to control your bubble count?I had a problem with
fish lostdue to to much co2 being dumped in the tank until i got a good
quality valve good luck
"laz" wrote in message
link.net...
Alright good people here is my problem...
I have a 55 G planted tank.
Here are the specs.: ph 7
kh 7
gh10
ammonia 0
nitrates 0
temp ~78-80
water changes 1/3 weekly
CO2 1-2 bubbles / sec (DIY)
fertilization ~ 1cc PMDD and ~1cc Flourish
Iron daily, Flourish ~ 2cc weekly, jobe's stick once a
month
substrate: bottom layer ~1" Laterite, next

is
~ 2" Shults' Arcillite substrate ( like baked clay ) used for
aquaplants in ponds, got it from a garden center, on the top of it ~2" of
washed play sand and on the

top
of these ~1/2 " of 2-3 mm gravel. ( maybe overkill don't know...)
lights: 220W (Jally A18) 4 X 55 W compact
fluorescent lights, 12 hours daily (7- 7)
filtration: Fluval 304 mainly for bio and
H.O.T Magnum for couple of nights a week with micron
filter. ( no charcoal )
Plants: few Alteranthera sessilis, Java fern, penny, Vallis, Anubias,

Water
cabbage, Amazon swords, Aponogeton.
Fish: 1 pictus cat ( lost his friend recently cannot figure out why... )
1 glowlight tetra ( lost her 5 friends within the same time
frame...)
3 Rasboras ( they lost 3 of their friends in the same horror...)
3 Black mollies
2 Clown loaches
3 Dwarf Pleco
2 Oto ( they lost 3 of their friends)
I have no idea what happened I found these poor guys floating one
morning.... It was no fun. :-(
Anyhow here is my question I hope some of you guys with more experience

can
help me.
I keep reading about the photosynthesis and how the bubbles forming on the
leafs. I don't have bubbles!
The plants just barely hanging on. They are growing but not to my liking.
Some of the old leafs on the swords turning yellow that according the Krib
might be N deficiency. I put more Jobe's stick to their roots, added 1

more
tablespoon KNO3 to the PMDD but still no bubbles. Increased the time of
lighting still nothing, Doubled the DIY CO2 to 2 bottles, (Setting up

fresh
ones every weekend so the CO2 is pretty much constant, I have a good
diffuser, but I tried the CO2 to the Fluval intake as well) but still no
bubbles.
Does it mean that there is no photosynthesis? According the Krib's chart

the
CO2 level is ~ 21 mg./l which is pretty high.
So good people out there , What do I miss???
What can I do to make the plants happier?
Any input will be appreciated.
Laz





  #4   Report Post  
Old 20-04-2003, 06:16 AM
LeighMo
 
Posts: n/a
Default what do I miss?

How long has this tank been set up?

It's not necessary for the plants to pearl for them to be growing well.
However, you say they aren't growing well, so something's wrong.

Nitrates should not be zero. You need to get your nitrate level up to at least
5 ppm. You might also need to add potassium or phosphate.

You have 4 wpg, a lot of light for a 55 gallon tank. That means you have to be
very careful to keep up with fertilization and CO2 levels. In fact, with a
tank this size, with this much light, I would recommend compressed CO2. And it
might help to add more fertilizer. You don't seem to be adding much, given the
tank size and lighting levels.

Also, try measuring your pH several times a day, just for a day. In the
morning, when the light goes on, in the middle of the "day," and when the
lights go out at night.

Your plant selection is wrong for your lighting levels, too. You need more
fast growing stem plants, or your tank will be overrun with algae.



Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/
  #5   Report Post  
Old 20-04-2003, 06:16 AM
laz
 
Posts: n/a
Default what do I miss?

Leigh
The tank is about 6-7 moths old.
Unfortunately I cannot afford compressed CO2 yet. My wife would kill me :-)
I already added more KNO3 to the PMDD but I'll try more.
How much is too much?
I have measured and still do the Ph right before the lights come on and it
is 6.8. During the day and before the lights are out is 7. In the past I had
some Ph crash due to low Kh but little baking soda took care of it.
I don't have any problem with algae. (yet?) The water is crystal clear, some
of the leafs have little green algae growth but the algae cleaning crew is
taking care of it.
What plants would you suggest?
Thanks
Laz

"LeighMo" wrote in message
...
How long has this tank been set up?

It's not necessary for the plants to pearl for them to be growing well.
However, you say they aren't growing well, so something's wrong.

Nitrates should not be zero. You need to get your nitrate level up to at

least
5 ppm. You might also need to add potassium or phosphate.

You have 4 wpg, a lot of light for a 55 gallon tank. That means you have

to be
very careful to keep up with fertilization and CO2 levels. In fact, with

a
tank this size, with this much light, I would recommend compressed CO2.

And it
might help to add more fertilizer. You don't seem to be adding much,

given the
tank size and lighting levels.

Also, try measuring your pH several times a day, just for a day. In the
morning, when the light goes on, in the middle of the "day," and when the
lights go out at night.

Your plant selection is wrong for your lighting levels, too. You need

more
fast growing stem plants, or your tank will be overrun with algae.



Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/





  #6   Report Post  
Old 20-04-2003, 06:16 AM
laz
 
Posts: n/a
Default what do I miss?

how can one control the DIY CO2 output?

"hortonwho" wrote in message
...
I'm not an expert, but i have a 55 g with @ 195 watts and mine pearls

pretty
good. I don't use a diy co2 buta tank and regulator @ 1 bubble /3 sec. i'm
not big on diffusers i use na reactor i made from a old gravel siphon anda
power head.works great and hardly any co2 bubbles make it to the
surface.what are u using to control your bubble count?I had a problem with
fish lostdue to to much co2 being dumped in the tank until i got a good
quality valve good luck
"laz" wrote in message
link.net...
Alright good people here is my problem...
I have a 55 G planted tank.
Here are the specs.: ph 7
kh 7
gh10
ammonia 0
nitrates 0
temp ~78-80
water changes 1/3 weekly
CO2 1-2 bubbles / sec (DIY)
fertilization ~ 1cc PMDD and ~1cc

Flourish
Iron daily, Flourish ~ 2cc weekly, jobe's stick once a
month
substrate: bottom layer ~1" Laterite,

next
is
~ 2" Shults' Arcillite substrate ( like baked clay ) used for
aquaplants in ponds, got it from a garden center, on the top of it ~2"

of
washed play sand and on the

top
of these ~1/2 " of 2-3 mm gravel. ( maybe overkill don't know...)
lights: 220W (Jally A18) 4 X 55 W

compact
fluorescent lights, 12 hours daily (7- 7)
filtration: Fluval 304 mainly for bio

and
H.O.T Magnum for couple of nights a week with micron
filter. ( no charcoal )
Plants: few Alteranthera sessilis, Java fern, penny, Vallis, Anubias,

Water
cabbage, Amazon swords, Aponogeton.
Fish: 1 pictus cat ( lost his friend recently cannot figure out why... )
1 glowlight tetra ( lost her 5 friends within the same time
frame...)
3 Rasboras ( they lost 3 of their friends in the same horror...)
3 Black mollies
2 Clown loaches
3 Dwarf Pleco
2 Oto ( they lost 3 of their friends)
I have no idea what happened I found these poor guys floating one
morning.... It was no fun. :-(
Anyhow here is my question I hope some of you guys with more experience

can
help me.
I keep reading about the photosynthesis and how the bubbles forming on

the
leafs. I don't have bubbles!
The plants just barely hanging on. They are growing but not to my

liking.
Some of the old leafs on the swords turning yellow that according the

Krib
might be N deficiency. I put more Jobe's stick to their roots, added 1

more
tablespoon KNO3 to the PMDD but still no bubbles. Increased the time of
lighting still nothing, Doubled the DIY CO2 to 2 bottles, (Setting up

fresh
ones every weekend so the CO2 is pretty much constant, I have a good
diffuser, but I tried the CO2 to the Fluval intake as well) but still

no
bubbles.
Does it mean that there is no photosynthesis? According the Krib's chart

the
CO2 level is ~ 21 mg./l which is pretty high.
So good people out there , What do I miss???
What can I do to make the plants happier?
Any input will be appreciated.
Laz








  #7   Report Post  
Old 20-04-2003, 06:16 AM
LeighMo
 
Posts: n/a
Default what do I miss?

I already added more KNO3 to the PMDD but I'll try more.
How much is too much?


See this article:

http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_nitrate.htm

Basically, you want nitrate to be measurable. If nitrate is zero, you're not
adding enough KNO3.

I have measured and still do the Ph right before the lights come on and it
is 6.8. During the day and before the lights are out is 7. In the past I had
some Ph crash due to low Kh but little baking soda took care of it.


That sounds okay, though once your plants start growing well, you might find it
harder to maintain CO2 levels with DIY.

What plants would you suggest?


If you aren't having problems with algae, you don't have to change anything.
If algae does start to become a problem, add more stem plants like Hygrophila,
LImnophlia, Rotala, etc.


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/
  #8   Report Post  
Old 20-04-2003, 06:16 AM
Nestor 10
 
Posts: n/a
Default what do I miss?

laz wrote in message
hlink.net...
how can one control the DIY CO2 output?


By controlling latency...

....which translates basically to adjusting the tank's circulation to match
the yeast output...


--
-Y-

Nestor 10

".chkr" is for mail-bots


  #9   Report Post  
Old 20-04-2003, 06:16 AM
Alex R
 
Posts: n/a
Default what do I miss?

"laz" wrote in message
link.net...
Alright good people here is my problem...
I have a 55 G planted tank.
Here are the specs.: ph 7
kh 7
gh10
ammonia 0
nitrates 0
temp ~78-80
water changes 1/3 weekly
CO2 1-2 bubbles / sec (DIY)
fertilization ~ 1cc PMDD and ~1cc Flourish
Iron daily, Flourish ~ 2cc weekly, jobe's stick once a
month


snip
lights: 220W (Jally A18) 4 X 55 W compact
fluorescent lights, 12 hours daily (7- 7)
filtration: Fluval 304 mainly for bio and
Plants: few Alteranthera sessilis, Java fern, penny, Vallis, Anubias,

Water
cabbage, Amazon swords, Aponogeton.


Laz,

It's obvious from your description here that your fertilization is
insufficient, considering your high lighting level. In order for plants to
be healthy and photosynthesize, you have to provide ALL the nutrients they
need, most importantly CO2. Otherwise, you're in for a big algae outbreak,
which coincides with poor plant health. I strongly suggest getting
pressurized CO2, but until you do, you should turn off one or two of your
bulbs. Even 3 W/g is very high lighting.

In addition, you need a lot more macronutrients and micronutrients than
you're putting in there. I see that your NO3 is 0. I aim for 10-20 ppm NO3,
which gives me less algae problems than 5-10 ppm. I also add 20 ppm or so of
potassium from K2SO4 per week. I suggest doing the same. It's better to dose
the nutrients from separate bottles than from a combined PMDD solution. It
would also be helpful to add some phosphate, but only when you've sorted out
the other nutrients. I try to keep mine at not less than 1.0 ppm. As for mic
ronutrients, I add 1 mL of Flourish Iron per day to my 30-gal. tank, as well
as about 2x the recommended dose of Tropica Master Grow. That's several
times more than what you're adding. It seems to me that the 2 mL of Flourish
that you're adding per week is very low, almost insignificant.

snip
2 Oto ( they lost 3 of their friends)
I have no idea what happened I found these poor guys floating one
morning.... It was no fun. :-(


Maybe it was all those Jobes spikes you added? They do contain ammonia.

Anyhow here is my question I hope some of you guys with more experience

can
help me.
I keep reading about the photosynthesis and how the bubbles forming on the
leafs. I don't have bubbles!
The plants just barely hanging on. They are growing but not to my liking.
Some of the old leafs on the swords turning yellow that according the Krib
might be N deficiency. I put more Jobe's stick to their roots, added 1

more
tablespoon KNO3 to the PMDD but still no bubbles. Increased the time of
lighting still nothing, Doubled the DIY CO2 to 2 bottles, (Setting up

fresh
ones every weekend so the CO2 is pretty much constant, I have a good
diffuser, but I tried the CO2 to the Fluval intake as well) but still no
bubbles.


The symptoms you describe are consistent with improper fertilization. Take
care of the nutrient problem in the water column and you should see a lot of
pearling at your light level. That is, dose your nutrients by following the
recommended levels. Use Chuck's nutrient calculator at
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_p...osage_calc.htm to figure out how
to make the nutrient solutions. Or just add them dry. It's important to
remember that if the plants are even limited by one nutrient, such as CO2,
N, P, or K, then increasing the quantity of the others will not matter. For
example, if your plants are not getting enough N, then increasing the
lighting will not help. (Lighting can be considered a nutrient.) Or if
they're missing iron, then adding more Jobes spikes will not do anything.
Don't worry about the substrate fertilization so much. Take care of the
water column in the first place.

Does it mean that there is no photosynthesis? According the Krib's chart

the
CO2 level is ~ 21 mg./l which is pretty high.


I don't think that's enough for 4 W/g. I would keep it at 30 ppm. That's why
I suggested turning off some of your bulbs.

So good people out there , What do I miss???
What can I do to make the plants happier?
Any input will be appreciated.
Laz


__
Alex R
pcalex (at) hotpop.com


  #10   Report Post  
Old 20-04-2003, 06:16 AM
laz
 
Posts: n/a
Default what do I miss?


"Alex R" wrote in message
news:[email protected]

It's obvious from your description here that your fertilization is
insufficient, considering your high lighting level. In order for plants to
be healthy and photosynthesize, you have to provide ALL the nutrients they
need, most importantly CO2. Otherwise, you're in for a big algae outbreak,
which coincides with poor plant health. I strongly suggest getting
pressurized CO2, but until you do, you should turn off one or two of your
bulbs. Even 3 W/g is very high lighting.


I did. Right now I have only 110W

In addition, you need a lot more macronutrients and micronutrients than
you're putting in there. I see that your NO3 is 0. I aim for 10-20 ppm

NO3,
which gives me less algae problems than 5-10 ppm. I also add 20 ppm or so

of
potassium from K2SO4 per week. I suggest doing the same. It's better to

dose
the nutrients from separate bottles than from a combined PMDD solution. It
would also be helpful to add some phosphate, but only when you've sorted

out
the other nutrients. I try to keep mine at not less than 1.0 ppm. As for

mic
ronutrients, I add 1 mL of Flourish Iron per day to my 30-gal. tank, as

well
as about 2x the recommended dose of Tropica Master Grow. That's several
times more than what you're adding. It seems to me that the 2 mL of

Flourish
that you're adding per week is very low, almost insignificant.


Here is where my confusion comes to the picture.
Allow me to quote from the krib:

"But, to get started, for each ten gallons, try around 1/12 ml of PMDD a day
(roughly 2 drops). A 29 gallon tank would then get 1/4 ml a day (roughly 6
drops). If you don't do many partial water changes, dose less. If you have a
"high tech", densely planted, CO2 injected, VHO lit tank, you might want to
double the dose to 1/6 ml of PMDD per 10 gallons a day (roughly 4 drops). "

You guys talking about many many cc of fertilizer, PPMD, Fluorish, Fluoris
Iron, additional KNO3, K2SO4, Magnezium,
I started my dosing according the Krib guys, and slowly increased the doses,
but I have to admit what you are telling me make more sense

snip
2 Oto ( they lost 3 of their friends)
I have no idea what happened I found these poor guys floating one
morning.... It was no fun. :-(


Maybe it was all those Jobes spikes you added? They do contain ammonia.


Yes it is possible but I think it was a Ph crash due to too much CO2. or
perhaps the combinations of the two.
It was a very very sad day.

The symptoms you describe are consistent with improper fertilization. Take
care of the nutrient problem in the water column and you should see a lot

of
pearling at your light level. That is, dose your nutrients by following

the
recommended levels. Use Chuck's nutrient calculator at
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_p...osage_calc.htm to figure out how
to make the nutrient solutions. Or just add them dry. It's important to
remember that if the plants are even limited by one nutrient, such as CO2,
N, P, or K, then increasing the quantity of the others will not matter.

For
example, if your plants are not getting enough N, then increasing the
lighting will not help. (Lighting can be considered a nutrient.) Or if
they're missing iron, then adding more Jobes spikes will not do anything.
Don't worry about the substrate fertilization so much. Take care of the
water column in the first place.

Thanks for sharing the knowledge. I'll try what you guys suggested.
laz





  #11   Report Post  
Old 20-04-2003, 06:16 AM
Alex R
 
Posts: n/a
Default what do I miss?

"laz" wrote in message
hlink.net...

In addition, you need a lot more macronutrients and micronutrients than
you're putting in there. I see that your NO3 is 0. I aim for 10-20 ppm

NO3,
which gives me less algae problems than 5-10 ppm. I also add 20 ppm or

so
of
potassium from K2SO4 per week. I suggest doing the same. It's better to

dose
the nutrients from separate bottles than from a combined PMDD solution.

It
would also be helpful to add some phosphate, but only when you've sorted

out
the other nutrients. I try to keep mine at not less than 1.0 ppm. As for

mic
ronutrients, I add 1 mL of Flourish Iron per day to my 30-gal. tank, as

well
as about 2x the recommended dose of Tropica Master Grow. That's several
times more than what you're adding. It seems to me that the 2 mL of

Flourish
that you're adding per week is very low, almost insignificant.


Here is where my confusion comes to the picture.
Allow me to quote from the krib:

"But, to get started, for each ten gallons, try around 1/12 ml of PMDD a

day
(roughly 2 drops). A 29 gallon tank would then get 1/4 ml a day (roughly 6
drops). If you don't do many partial water changes, dose less. If you have

a
"high tech", densely planted, CO2 injected, VHO lit tank, you might want

to
double the dose to 1/6 ml of PMDD per 10 gallons a day (roughly 4 drops).

"

You guys talking about many many cc of fertilizer, PPMD, Fluorish, Fluoris
Iron, additional KNO3, K2SO4, Magnezium,
I started my dosing according the Krib guys, and slowly increased the

doses,
but I have to admit what you are telling me make more sense


Well, I'm not an expert on PMDD. I don't know what the chemical analysis of
the final PMDD mixture is. I was just assuming it was comparable to TMG. In
any case, I think you should be dosing enough PMDD to get a NO3 reading of
around 10 ppm. I just went over that PMDD recipe page on The Krib, and it
seemed rather conservative to me. It was written in 1997. I think hobbyists
were more conservative about fertilizing back then. While others may
disagree, it is my opinion that being conservative is what will get you in
trouble in the first place. The PMDD recipe is based on the premise that
limiting phosphate will make all your algae disappear. But many hobbyists,
including myself, don't believe that that is the case. I think the limiting
nutrient should be the light, not the phosphorus. That's why I try to
"saturate" my plants with every other nutrient they need so they would be
able to grow as fast as possible. In my 30-gal. highly-lit tank, I have
little algae, and no herbivores.

Anyway, what I would do is figure out exactly how much I need to add of the
potassium, nitrate, and traces to obtain the recommended levels. I suggest
making a solution. I don't know what the point of using both Flourish and
PMDD is. If you have Flourish, then just use that as your trace supplement,
along with Flourish Iron. I'd say it's better than the PMDD trace mixture.
And just add the KNO3 and (KCl or K2SO4) separately. You will probably
eventually need to add phosphate. If so, then try searching the Google
archive for ideas on PO4 sources. I got some KH2PO4 from www.litemanu.com.
__
Alex R
pcalex (at) hotpop.com


  #12   Report Post  
Old 20-04-2003, 06:16 AM
laz
 
Posts: n/a
Default what do I miss?


"Alex R"


Anyway, what I would do is figure out exactly how much I need to add of

the
potassium, nitrate, and traces to obtain the recommended levels. I suggest
making a solution. I don't know what the point of using both Flourish and
PMDD is.If you have Flourish, then just use that as your trace supplement,
along with Flourish Iron. I'd say it's better than the PMDD trace mixture.
And just add the KNO3 and (KCl or K2SO4) separately. You will probably
eventually need to add phosphate. If so, then try searching the Google
archive for ideas on PO4 sources. I got some KH2PO4 from www.litemanu.com.
__
Alex R
pcalex (at) hotpop.com


I started using the PMDD for money saving reason, Figured in the long run
and possible more tanks it will be cheaper.
I guess I was wrong, since I had to spend so much money to replace the dead
plants.
( the price of cheap...)
I had the flourish bottles first then came the PMDD.
Anyhow I have KNO3 and K2SO4 and Epson salt as well.
I'll purchase some PO4 from the website you recommended.
Any suggestion where can I find Fe, Mg and Ca test kits?
I have kit for NO3, NO2, P but those my store don't carry.
Thanks
Laz




  #13   Report Post  
Old 20-04-2003, 06:16 AM
Alex R
 
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Default what do I miss?

"laz" wrote in message
thlink.net...

I had the flourish bottles first then came the PMDD.
Anyhow I have KNO3 and K2SO4 and Epson salt as well.
I'll purchase some PO4 from the website you recommended.
Any suggestion where can I find Fe, Mg and Ca test kits?
I have kit for NO3, NO2, P but those my store don't carry.


Laz, you already have almost all the test kits you need. You might want to
get a GH & KH kit, if you don't have those already. Mg & Ca are usually not
tested for separately. An Fe test kit is not very useful because there are
many forms of iron and it's not clear what part of the detected iron is
usable by plants and how much usable iron is undetected. But many online
stores carry them. It's easy to spot iron deficiencies by observing the new
leaves of fast-growing plants, and add as much iron as necessary to keep
them green. I have Ambulia in my tank, and whenever it lacks iron, the tips
the plant turn red.
__
Alex R




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