Still getting my first planted tank squared away...its looking quite
nice. Should I be removing the activated carbon from my filters? I
use a Penquin 170 that has carbon inside the filter material. Does
the carbon remove the trace elements and ferts I am adding to the
tank? Also, I have been changing the filter monthly as recommended
by the LFS but I have read on other forums never to change the filter
(because it houses the beneficial bacteria), however I also have a bio
wheel.

TIA,

The carbon will remove at least some of the trace nutrients that you may
be putting in (i.e. with PMDD, TMG or Flourish). I haven't run carbon
in any of my filters for years now.
pete

cindy wrote:
Still getting my first planted tank squared away...its looking quite
nice. Should I be removing the activated carbon from my filters? I
use a Penquin 170 that has carbon inside the filter material. Does
the carbon remove the trace elements and ferts I am adding to the
tank? Also, I have been changing the filter monthly as recommended
by the LFS but I have read on other forums never to change the filter
(because it houses the beneficial bacteria), however I also have a bio
wheel.

TIA,

Take it out for a planted tank. I doesn't really help you, and it may
(especially when its fresh) take significant trace elements out of the
water. You are better off with out it. Replace it with some other high
surface area filter substrate-- like ceramic beeds or the like.

-Bruce Geist
"cindy" wrote in message
om...
Still getting my first planted tank squared away...its looking quite
nice. Should I be removing the activated carbon from my filters? I
use a Penquin 170 that has carbon inside the filter material. Does
the carbon remove the trace elements and ferts I am adding to the
tank? Also, I have been changing the filter monthly as recommended
by the LFS but I have read on other forums never to change the filter
(because it houses the beneficial bacteria), however I also have a bio
wheel.

TIA,

If the general consensus is not to use carbon in the planted tank, what is
the best way to remove disolved organics and/or protein "scum"/film from the
surface? Would something like PuriGen or Chemi-Pure be acceptable? I had
begun to develop a white film on the surface of my tank. I ran carbon for 4
days and the film was completely removed.

Would protein skimmers be worth it in planted tanks? What about surface
extractor add-ons for canisters such as Eheim?

Thanks,
Jesse


"Bruce Geist" wrote in message
...
Take it out for a planted tank. I doesn't really help you, and it may
(especially when its fresh) take significant trace elements out of the
water. You are better off with out it. Replace it with some other high
surface area filter substrate-- like ceramic beeds or the like.

-Bruce Geist
"cindy" wrote in message
om...
Still getting my first planted tank squared away...its looking quite
nice. Should I be removing the activated carbon from my filters? I
use a Penquin 170 that has carbon inside the filter material. Does
the carbon remove the trace elements and ferts I am adding to the
tank? Also, I have been changing the filter monthly as recommended
by the LFS but I have read on other forums never to change the filter
(because it houses the beneficial bacteria), however I also have a bio
wheel.

TIA,

I am using an Eheim surface extractor with limited success. The surface
extractor I am using tends to clog with leaves and other plant parts. I
have added a couple of powerheads to produce small amounts of surface
agitation to help keep surface scum at bay.

Other than that, I change 40 to 50 percent of my tank water once per week.
I still get some film on my water by the end of the week, but its not too
bad.

Protein skimmers do not work well in freshwater. This is second hand
knowledge; I have not tried it myself. Apparently in fresh water, bubbles
are not fine enough to make the thing work. As for the other products you
mention, I am not familiar with them. What is in them?

-Bruce Geist
"SlimFlem" wrote in message
news:ZJOQ9.593213$NH2.39586@sccrnsc01...
If the general consensus is not to use carbon in the planted tank, what is
the best way to remove disolved organics and/or protein "scum"/film from
the
surface? Would something like PuriGen or Chemi-Pure be acceptable? I had
begun to develop a white film on the surface of my tank. I ran carbon for
4
days and the film was completely removed.

Would protein skimmers be worth it in planted tanks? What about surface
extractor add-ons for canisters such as Eheim?

Thanks,
Jesse


"Bruce Geist" wrote in message
...
Take it out for a planted tank. I doesn't really help you, and it may
(especially when its fresh) take significant trace elements out of the
water. You are better off with out it. Replace it with some other high
surface area filter substrate-- like ceramic beeds or the like.

-Bruce Geist
"cindy" wrote in message
om...
Still getting my first planted tank squared away...its looking quite
nice. Should I be removing the activated carbon from my filters? I
use a Penquin 170 that has carbon inside the filter material. Does
the carbon remove the trace elements and ferts I am adding to the
tank? Also, I have been changing the filter monthly as recommended
by the LFS but I have read on other forums never to change the filter
(because it houses the beneficial bacteria), however I also have a bio
wheel.

TIA,

Surface cleaning tip: I keep a length of PVC in the cabinet under my tank
which is capped on one end and is just long enough that, when I slip it over
the intake tube to my filter, the open end is about 1/4" below the surface
of the water.

kush

"You can't have everything - where would you put it?"
(either in the cabinet under the tank or, according to my spouse, on the
basement stairs)

Bruce Geist wrote in message
...
I am using an Eheim surface extractor with limited success. The surface
extractor I am using tends to clog with leaves and other plant parts. I
have added a couple of powerheads to produce small amounts of surface
agitation to help keep surface scum at bay.

Other than that, I change 40 to 50 percent of my tank water once per week.
I still get some film on my water by the end of the week, but its not too
bad.

Protein skimmers do not work well in freshwater. This is second hand
knowledge; I have not tried it myself. Apparently in fresh water, bubbles
are not fine enough to make the thing work. As for the other products you
mention, I am not familiar with them. What is in them?

-Bruce Geist
"SlimFlem" wrote in message
news:ZJOQ9.593213$NH2.39586@sccrnsc01...
If the general consensus is not to use carbon in the planted tank, what
is
the best way to remove disolved organics and/or protein "scum"/film from
the
surface? Would something like PuriGen or Chemi-Pure be acceptable? I
had
begun to develop a white film on the surface of my tank. I ran carbon
for
4
days and the film was completely removed.

Would protein skimmers be worth it in planted tanks? What about surface
extractor add-ons for canisters such as Eheim?

Thanks,
Jesse


"Bruce Geist" wrote in message
...
Take it out for a planted tank. I doesn't really help you, and it may
(especially when its fresh) take significant trace elements out of the
water. You are better off with out it. Replace it with some other
high
surface area filter substrate-- like ceramic beeds or the like.

-Bruce Geist
"cindy" wrote in message
om...
Still getting my first planted tank squared away...its looking quite
nice. Should I be removing the activated carbon from my filters? I
use a Penquin 170 that has carbon inside the filter material. Does
the carbon remove the trace elements and ferts I am adding to the
tank? Also, I have been changing the filter monthly as recommended
by the LFS but I have read on other forums never to change the
filter
(because it houses the beneficial bacteria), however I also have a
bio
wheel.

TIA,

Chemi-Pure is an Ion filter medium made by Boyd Enterprises that is supposed
to promote aerobic bacterial growth and nitrification as well as remove
dissolved organics. It is also supposed to remove copper, metal, ions,
odors, all pollution, gases, CO2, etc. The removal of CO2 makes me wonder,
but that's why I was hoping someone would throw their 2 cents in if it
really does indeed remove CO2 in a way harmful to plants. PuriGen by
SeaChem is about the same thing. The guys at the LFS said either can be
run, as well as carbon, in a planted tank. I hear so many different opinons
about this, it's hard to know what to believe. I use carbon here and there
for a few days at a time and all surface scum is removed and doesn't build
back up for a couple of weeks.

"Bruce Geist" wrote in message
...
I am using an Eheim surface extractor with limited success. The surface
extractor I am using tends to clog with leaves and other plant parts. I
have added a couple of powerheads to produce small amounts of surface
agitation to help keep surface scum at bay.

Other than that, I change 40 to 50 percent of my tank water once per week.
I still get some film on my water by the end of the week, but its not too
bad.

Protein skimmers do not work well in freshwater. This is second hand
knowledge; I have not tried it myself. Apparently in fresh water, bubbles
are not fine enough to make the thing work. As for the other products you
mention, I am not familiar with them. What is in them?

-Bruce Geist
"SlimFlem" wrote in message
news:ZJOQ9.593213$NH2.39586@sccrnsc01...
If the general consensus is not to use carbon in the planted tank, what
is
the best way to remove disolved organics and/or protein "scum"/film from
the
surface? Would something like PuriGen or Chemi-Pure be acceptable? I
had
begun to develop a white film on the surface of my tank. I ran carbon
for
4
days and the film was completely removed.

Would protein skimmers be worth it in planted tanks? What about surface
extractor add-ons for canisters such as Eheim?

Thanks,
Jesse


"Bruce Geist" wrote in message
...
Take it out for a planted tank. I doesn't really help you, and it may
(especially when its fresh) take significant trace elements out of the
water. You are better off with out it. Replace it with some other
high
surface area filter substrate-- like ceramic beeds or the like.

-Bruce Geist
"cindy" wrote in message
om...
Still getting my first planted tank squared away...its looking quite
nice. Should I be removing the activated carbon from my filters? I
use a Penquin 170 that has carbon inside the filter material. Does
the carbon remove the trace elements and ferts I am adding to the
tank? Also, I have been changing the filter monthly as recommended
by the LFS but I have read on other forums never to change the
filter
(because it houses the beneficial bacteria), however I also have a
bio
wheel.

TIA,

If carbon works for you, use it. Most planted tank keepers have found that
carbon doesn't help, and so don't use it.
But if you do get some benefit from it, use it. I doubt it absorbs enough
nutrients to hurt the plants.



Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

My guess is--- and its only a guess--- that the claim of promoting bacterial
growth and nitrification is true only in that as a filter medium, these
products provide surface area on which nitrifying bacteria can grow. This
is true of ceramic beads though-- there is nothing too magic about lots of
surface area. It might be interesting to write the companies involved to
ask for an explanation of how these products work. Seachem is IMO a really
good company, and if you write them, they are quite willing to discuss the
science behind their offerings.

As for the other claims you cite, I take them at face value. Note for
example though, that trace amounts of copper (which you specifically
mentioned) are needed for good plant growth. Other trace nutrients/metals
such as Zinc, Molybdenum, Boron, etc, are generally present in very small
quantities in tank water. Nevertheless, they are important to plants.
Sounds like these filter mediums potentially remove at least some of these
nutrients, which is not necessarily desirable.

Having said this, if it works for you, possibly there are bigger things to
worry about. Maybe some of the other frequent and knowledgeable
contributors to this newsgroup will offer their opinions/analysis. I myself
would like to find a solution to the surface scum problem. If these mediums
help you eliminate surface scum, that is a big plus. Maybe be on the look
out for plant nutrient deficiency if you decide you cannot live without the
carbon and/or other chemical/metal absorbing mediums in your filter.

Thanks for the information on these products. -Bruce Geist


"SlimFlem" wrote in message
.net...

Chemi-Pure is an Ion filter medium made by Boyd Enterprises that is
supposed
to promote aerobic bacterial growth and nitrification as well as remove
dissolved organics. It is also supposed to remove copper, metal, ions,
odors, all pollution, gases, CO2, etc. The removal of CO2 makes me
wonder,
but that's why I was hoping someone would throw their 2 cents in if it
really does indeed remove CO2 in a way harmful to plants. PuriGen by
SeaChem is about the same thing. The guys at the LFS said either can be
run, as well as carbon, in a planted tank. I hear so many different
opinons
about this, it's hard to know what to believe. I use carbon here and
there
for a few days at a time and all surface scum is removed and doesn't build
back up for a couple of weeks.

"Bruce Geist" wrote in message
...
I am using an Eheim surface extractor with limited success. The surface
extractor I am using tends to clog with leaves and other plant parts. I
have added a couple of powerheads to produce small amounts of surface
agitation to help keep surface scum at bay.

Other than that, I change 40 to 50 percent of my tank water once per
week.
I still get some film on my water by the end of the week, but its not
too
bad.

Protein skimmers do not work well in freshwater. This is second hand
knowledge; I have not tried it myself. Apparently in fresh water,
bubbles
are not fine enough to make the thing work. As for the other products
you
mention, I am not familiar with them. What is in them?

-Bruce Geist
"SlimFlem" wrote in message
news:ZJOQ9.593213$NH2.39586@sccrnsc01...
If the general consensus is not to use carbon in the planted tank,
what
is
the best way to remove disolved organics and/or protein "scum"/film
from
the
surface? Would something like PuriGen or Chemi-Pure be acceptable? I
had
begun to develop a white film on the surface of my tank. I ran carbon
for
4
days and the film was completely removed.

Would protein skimmers be worth it in planted tanks? What about
surface
extractor add-ons for canisters such as Eheim?

Thanks,
Jesse


"Bruce Geist" wrote in message
...
Take it out for a planted tank. I doesn't really help you, and it
may
(especially when its fresh) take significant trace elements out of
the
water. You are better off with out it. Replace it with some other
high
surface area filter substrate-- like ceramic beeds or the like.

-Bruce Geist
"cindy" wrote in message
om...
Still getting my first planted tank squared away...its looking
quite
nice. Should I be removing the activated carbon from my filters?
I
use a Penquin 170 that has carbon inside the filter material.
Does
the carbon remove the trace elements and ferts I am adding to the
tank? Also, I have been changing the filter monthly as
recommended
by the LFS but I have read on other forums never to change the
filter
(because it houses the beneficial bacteria), however I also have a
bio
wheel.

TIA,

Thanks kush. I think I understand your suggestion-- the PVC acts as a
channel for surface water to get sucked up into? Is this PVC acting as a
DIY surface extractor? Neat. Is it pretty convenient to use?
-Bruce

"kush" wrote in message
...
Surface cleaning tip: I keep a length of PVC in the cabinet under my tank
which is capped on one end and is just long enough that, when I slip it
over
the intake tube to my filter, the open end is about 1/4" below the surface
of the water.

kush

"You can't have everything - where would you put it?"
(either in the cabinet under the tank or, according to my spouse, on the
basement stairs)

Bruce Geist wrote in message
...
I am using an Eheim surface extractor with limited success. The surface
extractor I am using tends to clog with leaves and other plant parts. I
have added a couple of powerheads to produce small amounts of surface
agitation to help keep surface scum at bay.

Other than that, I change 40 to 50 percent of my tank water once per
week.
I still get some film on my water by the end of the week, but its not
too
bad.

Protein skimmers do not work well in freshwater. This is second hand
knowledge; I have not tried it myself. Apparently in fresh water,
bubbles
are not fine enough to make the thing work. As for the other products
you
mention, I am not familiar with them. What is in them?

-Bruce Geist
"SlimFlem" wrote in message
news:ZJOQ9.593213$NH2.39586@sccrnsc01...
If the general consensus is not to use carbon in the planted tank,
what
is
the best way to remove disolved organics and/or protein "scum"/film
from
the
surface? Would something like PuriGen or Chemi-Pure be acceptable? I
had
begun to develop a white film on the surface of my tank. I ran carbon
for
4
days and the film was completely removed.

Would protein skimmers be worth it in planted tanks? What about
surface
extractor add-ons for canisters such as Eheim?

Thanks,
Jesse


"Bruce Geist" wrote in message
...
Take it out for a planted tank. I doesn't really help you, and it
may
(especially when its fresh) take significant trace elements out of
the
water. You are better off with out it. Replace it with some other
high
surface area filter substrate-- like ceramic beeds or the like.

-Bruce Geist
"cindy" wrote in message
om...
Still getting my first planted tank squared away...its looking
quite
nice. Should I be removing the activated carbon from my filters?
I
use a Penquin 170 that has carbon inside the filter material.
Does
the carbon remove the trace elements and ferts I am adding to the
tank? Also, I have been changing the filter monthly as
recommended
by the LFS but I have read on other forums never to change the
filter
(because it houses the beneficial bacteria), however I also have a
bio
wheel.

TIA,

I don't use the Chemi-Pure or PuriGen, I was just quoting from the
containers. What I was after was some experiece from others that may have
used these in planted tanks in the past or some other filter medium used to
remove disolved organics. I only use carbon for a few days at a time when
the scum develops and then remove it. It does the job.

I like kush's use of the PVC pipe as a DIY surface extractor, however, I
still don't see how this helps to remove the scum/disolved organics unless
there is some sort of filter medium to remove it once this PVC sucks it into
the filter. It seems like this would just mix it around in the water until
it again formed on the surface.

Kush, what sorts of filter mediums are you using? Do you have any surface
scum problems?

Thanks,
Jesse

"Bruce Geist" wrote in message
...
My guess is--- and its only a guess--- that the claim of promoting
bacterial
growth and nitrification is true only in that as a filter medium, these
products provide surface area on which nitrifying bacteria can grow. This
is true of ceramic beads though-- there is nothing too magic about lots of
surface area. It might be interesting to write the companies involved to
ask for an explanation of how these products work. Seachem is IMO a
really
good company, and if you write them, they are quite willing to discuss the
science behind their offerings.

As for the other claims you cite, I take them at face value. Note for
example though, that trace amounts of copper (which you specifically
mentioned) are needed for good plant growth. Other trace nutrients/metals
such as Zinc, Molybdenum, Boron, etc, are generally present in very small
quantities in tank water. Nevertheless, they are important to plants.
Sounds like these filter mediums potentially remove at least some of these
nutrients, which is not necessarily desirable.

Having said this, if it works for you, possibly there are bigger things to
worry about. Maybe some of the other frequent and knowledgeable
contributors to this newsgroup will offer their opinions/analysis. I
myself
would like to find a solution to the surface scum problem. If these
mediums
help you eliminate surface scum, that is a big plus. Maybe be on the look
out for plant nutrient deficiency if you decide you cannot live without
the
carbon and/or other chemical/metal absorbing mediums in your filter.

Thanks for the information on these products. -Bruce Geist


"SlimFlem" wrote in message
.net...

Chemi-Pure is an Ion filter medium made by Boyd Enterprises that is
supposed
to promote aerobic bacterial growth and nitrification as well as remove
dissolved organics. It is also supposed to remove copper, metal, ions,
odors, all pollution, gases, CO2, etc. The removal of CO2 makes me
wonder,
but that's why I was hoping someone would throw their 2 cents in if it
really does indeed remove CO2 in a way harmful to plants. PuriGen by
SeaChem is about the same thing. The guys at the LFS said either can be
run, as well as carbon, in a planted tank. I hear so many different
opinons
about this, it's hard to know what to believe. I use carbon here and
there
for a few days at a time and all surface scum is removed and doesn't
build
back up for a couple of weeks.

"Bruce Geist" wrote in message
...
I am using an Eheim surface extractor with limited success. The
surface
extractor I am using tends to clog with leaves and other plant parts.
I
have added a couple of powerheads to produce small amounts of surface
agitation to help keep surface scum at bay.

Other than that, I change 40 to 50 percent of my tank water once per
week.
I still get some film on my water by the end of the week, but its not
too
bad.

Protein skimmers do not work well in freshwater. This is second hand
knowledge; I have not tried it myself. Apparently in fresh water,
bubbles
are not fine enough to make the thing work. As for the other products
you
mention, I am not familiar with them. What is in them?

-Bruce Geist
"SlimFlem" wrote in message
news:ZJOQ9.593213$NH2.39586@sccrnsc01...
If the general consensus is not to use carbon in the planted tank,
what
is
the best way to remove disolved organics and/or protein "scum"/film
from
the
surface? Would something like PuriGen or Chemi-Pure be acceptable?
I
had
begun to develop a white film on the surface of my tank. I ran
carbon
for
4
days and the film was completely removed.

Would protein skimmers be worth it in planted tanks? What about
surface
extractor add-ons for canisters such as Eheim?

Thanks,
Jesse


"Bruce Geist" wrote in message
...
Take it out for a planted tank. I doesn't really help you, and it
may
(especially when its fresh) take significant trace elements out of
the
water. You are better off with out it. Replace it with some
other
high
surface area filter substrate-- like ceramic beeds or the like.

-Bruce Geist
"cindy" wrote in message
om...
Still getting my first planted tank squared away...its looking
quite
nice. Should I be removing the activated carbon from my
filters?
I
use a Penquin 170 that has carbon inside the filter material.
Does
the carbon remove the trace elements and ferts I am adding to
the
tank? Also, I have been changing the filter monthly as
recommended
by the LFS but I have read on other forums never to change the
filter
(because it houses the beneficial bacteria), however I also have
a
bio
wheel.

TIA,

Xref: 127.0.0.1 rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants:67662


SlimFlem wrote ...
... I still don't see how this helps to remove the scum/disolved organics
unless
there is some sort of filter medium to remove it once this PVC sucks it
into
the filter... what sorts of filter mediums are you using?

I have an oversized AquaVia with a slow flow rate and jam-packed with filter
floss, sponge media, ceramic bio rings, and (gasp!) activated carbon as well
as anything else that may strike my fancy at the LFS. Whatever eventually
comes out the other end is pure enough to sterilize contact lenses in (well,
someone else's contact lenses, maybe).

"Bruce Geist" wrote...
...the PVC acts as a channel for surface water to get sucked up into? Is
this PVC acting as a
DIY surface extractor?

Correct.

Is it pretty convenient to use?

It used to be, before I drilled a hole in my intake strainer to insert a CO2
line. I would just sort of twist the intake tube off to the side and slip
the pipe over it, then twist the whole thing back into place... elapsed
time, five seconds. Now I would have to disconnect the CO2 first but,
truthfully, I haven't needed to use it for a while. I suppose I could drill
a passthrough hole for the CO2 line in the PVC, too.

The two times I used it, it only took a couple of days to clear up the
problem. I think if I had it to do over again I wouldn't worry about
capping the pipe; I'd just bury the open end in the gravel.

kush

"You can't have everything - where would you put it?"