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Old 20-04-2003, 07:16 AM
wiggywacker
 
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Default New CO2 bottle

Hello!
I've finally bought myself a CO2 bottle / regulator..... and I need to have
it filled up.
A shopkeeper told me I have to put the bottle into the freezer first....can
you please verify this? and give me more detailed instructions on doing
this?

The bottle is 1,5 liters.........how long do you reckon that would last for
a 180 liter aquarium with 60% plant coverage?

Thanks =D



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Old 20-04-2003, 07:16 AM
Lee Russell
 
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Default New CO2 bottle

Freezing the bottel first? This I have not heard of before. Take the
bottle to a local compressed gas company , and they can fill it for you.


"


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Old 20-04-2003, 07:16 AM
Chuck Gadd
 
Posts: n/a
Default New CO2 bottle

On Sun, 5 Jan 2003 01:40:31 +0100, "wiggywacker"
wrote:

Hello!
I've finally bought myself a CO2 bottle / regulator..... and I need to have
it filled up.
A shopkeeper told me I have to put the bottle into the freezer first....can
you please verify this? and give me more detailed instructions on doing
this?




CO2 expands with heat. If the tank is cold, it's easier to get a
complete fill. In paintball (where small CO2 bottles are used), the
common method is to rapidly release the CO2 that remains in the bottle
to be filled, which REALLY cools the CO2 bottle. If the tank is
completely empty, then the shop will partially fill it, then release
that CO2 to chill the bottle.



Chuck Gadd
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua
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Old 20-04-2003, 07:17 AM
wiggywacker
 
Posts: n/a
Default New CO2 bottle

I called another shop (the only other known shop in Belgium that know
anything about CO2) and they also told me to put the bottle into the
freezer!

So I did some searching on internet, and came up with a site that use CO2 in
car racing. They explained that CO2 is not a gas, but a liquid that happens
to 'boil' at a relatively low temperature (about 112f / 42c), so therefore
to get max capacity into the CO2 bottle, it should be very cold.

Seems they're not so crazy here !
But I do find it weird, I never heard anyone on this group mentioning it
before. But Belgium is right next door to Germany, where all this tech
comes from.


"wiggywacker" wrote in message
...
Hello!
I've finally bought myself a CO2 bottle / regulator..... and I need to

have
it filled up.
A shopkeeper told me I have to put the bottle into the freezer

first....can
you please verify this? and give me more detailed instructions on doing
this?

The bottle is 1,5 liters.........how long do you reckon that would last

for
a 180 liter aquarium with 60% plant coverage?

Thanks =D




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Old 20-04-2003, 07:17 AM
Dave Millman
 
Posts: n/a
Default New CO2 bottle

wiggywacker wrote:

So I did some searching on internet, and came up with a site that use CO2 in
car racing. They explained that CO2 is not a gas, but a liquid that happens
to 'boil' at a relatively low temperature (about 112f / 42c), so therefore
to get max capacity into the CO2 bottle, it should be very cold.


When I was a boy in upstate New York, it was so cold that CO2 froze solid and
sublimed out of the air.

Amazing what facts you can dig up on the internet!



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Old 20-04-2003, 07:17 AM
Bob Alston
 
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Default New CO2 bottle

My first fill of my 5 lb tank was done via the "freeze the tank first
method". Done by a beer outlet that dealt with kegs. The guy said it
was necessary to get much of a fill. But he could only get about 2
pounds into the tank - and only charged me for that.

A second place, that sells medical gasses, told me they did not fill 5
lb co2 and that it is hard to get it full.

I finally went to a fire extinguisher place. I talked to a guy who
fills fire extinguisher and had been doing for about 18 years. He
told me those other guys just didn't have the right equipment. He
filled mine by weight - close to 5 lbs. He also showed me how he
tests the cylinders and how often they need to be tested. He checked
the mfg date imprinted on mine and put a tag on showing when it was
last tested (= mfg date as I recall). I think they have to be
retested very 5 years or so. He also put the proper chemical warning
tag on the cylinder so there would be no confusion in a fire or car
accident when I was transporting the cylinder.

Also, he was very happy to fill MY brand new steel tank - no need for
an exchange. I had had a small leak with my hookup so he reseated my
regulator, told me no need to use teflon tape and why. Gave me (or
charged $1 or $2) for an adaptor to attach a new needle valve I had
purchased (after trying the Home Depo Cheapo without good results).

When he asked what I used it for, I found out he raised fancy goldfish
and has done so for years.

I will ONLY go back there for gas or help.

Bob
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Old 20-04-2003, 07:17 AM
Chuck Gadd
 
Posts: n/a
Default New CO2 bottle

On Wed, 8 Jan 2003 15:24:15 +0100, "wiggywacker"
wrote:

But I do find it weird, I never heard anyone on this group mentioning it
before. But Belgium is right next door to Germany, where all this tech
comes from.


CO2 isn't unique to anything created in Germany...

Most places in the USA don't fill CO2 tanks on-site, so the temp of
the tank doesn't make any difference. I'd bet that those places that
do fill on-site take steps to cool the tank, like I said, a partial
fill, and then a fast discharge of that fill will cool the tank down
to the point that it will get a thick layer of ice/frost. I've had
small 12oz CO2 bottles for paintball that I couldn't touch bare-handed
for about 15-20 minutes.



Chuck Gadd
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua
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Old 20-04-2003, 07:17 AM
wiggywacker
 
Posts: n/a
Default New CO2 bottle

Now that I've had it done, finally, I think I know why they say to freeze
the bottle first....

In a 'proper' refilling place, they wouldn't have a problem...
but in the back of the pet store, they simply use a very big CO2 bottle and
fill from that into whatever we bring in. They said that as their big
bottle gets more empty, so they can only fill the customers bottle
somewhat.... and if we cool it, then they can fill it more. So it's
probably just to reduce the pressure in the refilled bottle so that more CO2
gets into it from the larger bottle (as far as I understand it)


"Chuck Gadd" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 8 Jan 2003 15:24:15 +0100, "wiggywacker"
wrote:

But I do find it weird, I never heard anyone on this group mentioning it
before. But Belgium is right next door to Germany, where all this tech
comes from.


CO2 isn't unique to anything created in Germany...

Most places in the USA don't fill CO2 tanks on-site, so the temp of
the tank doesn't make any difference. I'd bet that those places that
do fill on-site take steps to cool the tank, like I said, a partial
fill, and then a fast discharge of that fill will cool the tank down
to the point that it will get a thick layer of ice/frost. I've had
small 12oz CO2 bottles for paintball that I couldn't touch bare-handed
for about 15-20 minutes.



Chuck Gadd
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua



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Old 20-04-2003, 07:17 AM
Bob Alston
 
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Default New CO2 bottle

By george I think you've got it!!!!! grin

Bob
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Old 20-04-2003, 07:17 AM
Aquatic-store.com
 
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Default New CO2 bottle

Xref: 127.0.0.1 rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants:68119

HMMMM never heard of this, let me know what he says the reasoning is
please.

]
Marcus
Http://www.Aquatic-Store.com




On Sun, 5 Jan 2003 01:40:31 +0100, "wiggywacker"
wrote:

Hello!
I've finally bought myself a CO2 bottle / regulator..... and I need to have
it filled up.
A shopkeeper told me I have to put the bottle into the freezer first....can
you please verify this? and give me more detailed instructions on doing
this?

The bottle is 1,5 liters.........how long do you reckon that would last for
a 180 liter aquarium with 60% plant coverage?

Thanks =D




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