I purchased a Hagen Natural Plant System CO2 diffuser/bubble counter a
few days ago, to attach to my DIY system.

I didn't really figure it would be an improvement over the simple bell
I had been using - I mostly got it because I thought it was kind of
cool, with the bubbles zig-zagging up through the diffuser.

I was surprised to find that you can actually see this thing working,
and I don't mean just the movement of the CO2 bubbles through the
diffuser. You can actually see the bubbles *shrink* as they travel to
the top of the path.

When the bubbles enter the diffuser, they are perhaps 5mm in diameter
(eye-balling it), and start moving along the track pretty fast. By the
time the bubbles reach the top, they've shrunk to as small as 2mm, and
are moving much more slowly.

It's very obvious that the CO2 must be dissolving into the water. If
anyone was debating if they should get one of these diffusers, I'd
certainly recommend it.


--
www.ericschreiber.com

"Eric Schreiber" wrote in message
...
I purchased a Hagen Natural Plant System CO2 diffuser/bubble counter a
few days ago, to attach to my DIY system.

I didn't really figure it would be an improvement over the simple bell
I had been using - I mostly got it because I thought it was kind of
cool, with the bubbles zig-zagging up through the diffuser.

I was surprised to find that you can actually see this thing working,
and I don't mean just the movement of the CO2 bubbles through the
diffuser. You can actually see the bubbles *shrink* as they travel to
the top of the path.

When the bubbles enter the diffuser, they are perhaps 5mm in diameter
(eye-balling it), and start moving along the track pretty fast. By the
time the bubbles reach the top, they've shrunk to as small as 2mm, and
are moving much more slowly.

It's very obvious that the CO2 must be dissolving into the water. If
anyone was debating if they should get one of these diffusers, I'd
certainly recommend it.


--
www.ericschreiber.com

Thanks for the feedback. I sell these in the store and I was a bit
sceptical (as I am for all new products). They rate it for 20g which I
thought was conservative, so either the generation chamber is small, or
Hagen wants the effects to be really obvious. I hope others can attach
their feedback as well, plus a better estimate of the tank size it would
operate. Wouldn't plant quantity or surface area be more relevant than
water volume?

NetMax

"NetMax" wrote in:
[snip]
Thanks for the feedback. I sell these in the store and I was a bit
sceptical (as I am for all new products). They rate it for 20g which I
thought was conservative, so either the generation chamber is small, or
Hagen wants the effects to be really obvious. I hope others can attach
their feedback as well, plus a better estimate of the tank size it would
operate. Wouldn't plant quantity or surface area be more relevant than
water volume?

NetMax

Well I use one in a 29gal high tank and judging by a rough estimate I would
say it is working at least as effectively, or even more so than the plain
DIY yeast method I used to employ, probably owing to the diffuser/bubble
counter itself.

Terence

"NetMax" wrote in message
. ..
"Eric Schreiber" wrote in message
...
I purchased a Hagen Natural Plant System CO2 diffuser/bubble counter a
few days ago, to attach to my DIY system.

I didn't really figure it would be an improvement over the simple bell
I had been using - I mostly got it because I thought it was kind of
cool, with the bubbles zig-zagging up through the diffuser.

I was surprised to find that you can actually see this thing working,
and I don't mean just the movement of the CO2 bubbles through the
diffuser. You can actually see the bubbles *shrink* as they travel to
the top of the path.

When the bubbles enter the diffuser, they are perhaps 5mm in diameter
(eye-balling it), and start moving along the track pretty fast. By the
time the bubbles reach the top, they've shrunk to as small as 2mm, and
are moving much more slowly.

It's very obvious that the CO2 must be dissolving into the water. If
anyone was debating if they should get one of these diffusers, I'd
certainly recommend it.


--
www.ericschreiber.com

Thanks for the feedback. I sell these in the store and I was a bit
sceptical (as I am for all new products). They rate it for 20g which I
thought was conservative, so either the generation chamber is small, or
Hagen wants the effects to be really obvious. I hope others can attach
their feedback as well, plus a better estimate of the tank size it would
operate. Wouldn't plant quantity or surface area be more relevant than
water volume?

NetMax


Netmax,
Slight copy from my post in a different thread

I have been using it for a while now.
I have one on a 75 UK gal tank. A bit of an experiment I guess.
I have noticed better plant growth, and a nice drop in pH as a result.
I actually bought another today, and now have two on my tank with 1
diffuser.
They each take 100g of sugar and 400ml of tepid water, about 1/4 to 1/2 tsp
of yeast and some baking soda. The system doesn't give you these quantities,
I decided to measure
The system has a series of marks in the chamber. Fill with sugar until you
get to mark one. Add the contents of the Activator ( yeast ) and Stabilizer
(baking soda) sachets and then fill to second mark with lukewarm water.

This is quite small compared to the 2L pop bottle DIY plan most people seem
to favour.
But the bubble rate is good, and the diffuser does seem to do a good job.

I the UK it costs 15.99 GBP. Hardly worth going to the trouble of drilling,
sealing, getting CO2 friendly tubing and then finding a good way to diffuse
the CO2. Netmax, I am sure that your customers will benefit from using this
system. It is a very easy, and gentle introduction to CO2.
It may even lead to sales of bigger CO2 kits later down the line.
My LFS actually set on up on their plant holding tank. I got to see the
diffuser in action, and it made me reach into my pocket.

HTTH


Phil.

In , "NetMax"
empowered us with this mighty blow against the
Patriarchy:

Thanks for the feedback. I sell these in the store and I was a bit
sceptical (as I am for all new products). They rate it for 20g which I
thought was conservative, so either the generation chamber is small, or
Hagen wants the effects to be really obvious. I hope others can attach
their feedback as well, plus a better estimate of the tank size it would
operate. Wouldn't plant quantity or surface area be more relevant than
water volume?

I added a post to another thread about this. Just another data point; I
found that I didn't get enough CO2 from the reactor for my 29 gallon
heavily planted tank; it's possible it may work for a 20 gallon tank
assuming little surface turbulence. I question the claim that it will last
for a month ... it just seems like the reactor is just too small. But I
could be wrong.

I like the diffuser, and am using it with my usual DIY setup (2 quart juice
bottle, yeast, sugar and water). I hear that the diffuser is available
separately - good idea.

I can see where customers might get upset if they buy this product and then
find out that the "activator" and "stabilizer" packets contain just yeast
and (probably) baking soda. ;-)

I have one in a 54g corner tank.

With a DIY yeast mix at temperatures between 68 and 76 degrees F, I would
have anywhere between 5 and 20 bubbles in the diffusor when the tank lights
were on. Bubble size would vary depending on unknown factors. Sometimes they
got really small, sometimes they didn't. pH moved from about 8.0 to around
7.5 with a KH of 8 on the Tetra kit.

Lighting is a single 175W MH and two 28W Actinic bulbs. I would get pearling
on some plants after the lights were on after about 9 hours.


"NetMax" wrote in message
. ..
I hope others can attach their feedback as well, plus a better estimate
of the tank size it would operate. Wouldn't plant quantity or surface
area be more relevant than water volume?

tose (LeighMo) wrote:

Did it work better than the bell you were using?
Did your pH drop more than with the bell?

With the bell I could see that it had CO2 *in* the bell, but had no
clue if it was dissolving into the tank or not. At least with this
diffuser there is no doubt that it's dissolving.

Honestly, my pH hasn't dropped with either the bell or the Hagen
diffuser. I'm kind of irritated about that, as I would like to have
that 'chemical' evidence of CO2 in addition to the visual evidence I
have.

Since the last time I did a pH test (I do it weekly) I've lowered the
tank temperature a few degrees. It's possible that will help with CO2
retention, and if the numbers change I'll post about it here.

And is there any maintenance involved in this thing?
Anything you have to clean?

So far, no. However, I saw one of these diffusers in a store and it
had a lot of algae growth, so I wouldn't be surprised if once in
awhile I have to pull it out and scrub it with an old toothbrush or
something.

I am getting that weird white filamentous stuff that people often
mention in connection with CO2 injection. Just a little tiny cloud of
it right where the CO2 comes out of the tube. Had this with the bell,
too.

--
www.ericschreiber.com

tose (LeighMo) wrote:

Honestly, my pH hasn't dropped with either the bell or the Hagen
diffuser.

That's weird. How big is your tank?

Twenty gallons. Thirty pounds of Flourite substrate, but I don't
believe that Flourite has any buffering capabilities.

If the CO2 is getting into the water, I'd expect to see a pH drop.

Me too. It's held steady at 8.2, however.

I'm using an Eclipse 2 hood, which makes for some turbulence at the
surface, which could be impacting the CO2 reading. I'm planning on
tests and water change later today, so we'll see if anything has
changed.

--
www.ericschreiber.com

Eric Schreiber wrote:

I'm planning on tests and water change later today, so
we'll see if anything has changed.

Here are the complete reading from my tank for the last several weeks,
updated today.


Date Amm Nit pH GH KH CO2 Notes
12/16 0.0 2.0 8.6 15.0 15.0 1.1
12/18 0.0 0.5 8.2 14.5 13.5 2.6 (1)
12/21 0.0 0.0 8.2 13.5 13.5 2.6
12/26 0.0 0.0 8.2 14.0 13.5 2.6
01/01 0.0 0.0 8.0 15.0 15.5 4.7 (2)
01/07 0.0 0.0 8.2 15.0 15.0 2.8 (3)
01/14 0.0 0.0 8.2 14.5 14.5 2.7

Notes:
(1) Start DIY CO2, readings are before CO2
(2) Slight cloudiness, monthly filter change
(3) New CO2 mix, added Hagen Co2 diffuser

The CO2 is calculated per this formula:
CO2 (in PPM) = 3 * KH * 10^(7-pH)
which I got from Chucks Planted Aquarium Pages at
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm


So, while I'm quite sure the Hagen diffuser is working based on visual
cues, my tank chemistry doesn't seem to change appreciably.

I suppose as an experiment I could turn off the Eclipse filtration for
a few hours and see what happens, since it's causing a fair amount of
turbulence, but even if it demonstrates that the turbulence is the
problem, I'm not sure what I might do with that information - I'm not
about to stop filtration on the tank, after all!

At least my ammonia and nitrite have been holding nicely at zero.

--
www.ericschreiber.com

In , Eric Schreiber
empowered us with this mighty blow against
the Patriarchy:

I suppose as an experiment I could turn off the Eclipse filtration for
a few hours and see what happens, since it's causing a fair amount of
turbulence, but even if it demonstrates that the turbulence is the
problem, I'm not sure what I might do with that information - I'm not
about to stop filtration on the tank, after all!

An Eclipse 2 generates quite a bit of flow ... I had an Eclipse 1 on a 20
gallon (extra high) and I can't imagine being able to successfully get an
adequate amount of CO2 into the water. Way too much surface turbulence.
But there may be a way to decrease the flowrate ... seems to me I've read
posts in which people have described doing this.