I have a decent sized tank (4x3x2 ft) with only 4 plants and five small fish
in it, all was going well until all of a sudden the plants with broad leafs
started going brown and dieing Why??. I have a power head filter and two
under gravel filters. the fish are fine and the two plants that aren't
broad leafed are fine

any suggestions would be greatly appreciated

thanks

Ben

"Ben" wrote in message
...
I have a decent sized tank (4x3x2 ft) with only 4 plants and five small
fish
in it, all was going well until all of a sudden the plants with broad
leafs
started going brown and dieing Why??. I have a power head filter and two
under gravel filters. the fish are fine and the two plants that aren't
broad leafed are fine


Growing plant in tanks with under gravel filters has never worked for
me....they generally don't like the flow of oxygenated water over their
roots.

I.

Sigh. Again with the UGF-bashing. I have half-a-dozen tanks and have been
keeping planted tanks for over twenty-five years. Practically every single
one has or has had an undergravel filter. There is no problem with using
UGF's.

Iain Miller wrote in message
...

"Ben" wrote in message
...
I have a decent sized tank (4x3x2 ft) with only 4 plants and five small
fish
in it, all was going well until all of a sudden the plants with broad
leafs
started going brown and dieing Why??. I have a power head filter and
two
under gravel filters. the fish are fine and the two plants that aren't
broad leafed are fine


Growing plant in tanks with under gravel filters has never worked for
me....they generally don't like the flow of oxygenated water over their
roots.

I.

I don't know which plants you have, but I had a small but beautiful
looking crypt doing well in my tank with an UGF. One day I moved
apartments and the plant suddenly rotted (apparently not uncommon for
crypts). All the leaves quickly died off or turned from green to pale
brown. I tried to recover it with more lighting, CO2, and trace
elements, all to no avail. After 7 months, there are still a few brown
leaves left, but there has been no new growth since.

As for plants in an UGF tank, besides the crypt (who used to be healthy)
I only have non-rooting plants like java fern and java moss. They grow
crazy. The main concern I've picked up about UGFs and plants is root
entangling in the panels. If you don't plan to replant, then I don't
see how this could be much of a problem.

Barry


In article ,
tose (LeighMo) wrote:

How much light do you have over your tank? And how long has it been set up?

You have to be very careful about which plants you choose, unless you've
installed extra lighting over your tank.


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

I keep hearing about roots getting tangled in the filter plates - it's never
been a problem for me, maybe because I'm always moving them around?

Barry wrote in message
...
I don't know which plants you have, but I had a small but beautiful
looking crypt doing well in my tank with an UGF. One day I moved
apartments and the plant suddenly rotted (apparently not uncommon for
crypts). All the leaves quickly died off or turned from green to pale
brown. I tried to recover it with more lighting, CO2, and trace
elements, all to no avail. After 7 months, there are still a few brown
leaves left, but there has been no new growth since.

As for plants in an UGF tank, besides the crypt (who used to be healthy)
I only have non-rooting plants like java fern and java moss. They grow
crazy. The main concern I've picked up about UGFs and plants is root
entangling in the panels. If you don't plan to replant, then I don't
see how this could be much of a problem.

Barry


In article ,
tose (LeighMo) wrote:

How much light do you have over your tank? And how long has it been set
up?

You have to be very careful about which plants you choose, unless you've
installed extra lighting over your tank.


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

HA! Have you ever had to deal with a Hygrophila corymbosa after being away
on vacation for three weeks!

LeighMo wrote in message
...
I keep hearing about roots getting tangled in the filter plates - it's
never
been a problem for me, maybe because I'm always moving them around?

Or maybe because you have mostly stem plants. Stem plants don't have much
of a
root system.


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

I heard that especially large plants like amazon sword can make a mess of
the UGF's with root entanglements, etc... how hard are they to transplant
(by cutting it off of filter if necessary), for something like upgrading to
a larger tank, etc? or is that too harsh a pruning to survive?

linda

"kush" wrote in message
...
Sigh. Again with the UGF-bashing. I have half-a-dozen tanks and have
been
keeping planted tanks for over twenty-five years. Practically every
single
one has or has had an undergravel filter. There is no problem with using
UGF's.

You just yank it. It really is that simple.

There is an advantage to pruning the roots on your Ech. , anyway. When the
sword gets big and in peak condition, you can dig it up and prune the roots
back to a few inches. The plant will stop putting out new leaves while it
regrows it's roots. By doing that repeatedly you can keep a specimen for
years after it would otherwise have outgrown the tank.

kush

linda mar wrote in message
...
I heard that especially large plants like amazon sword can make a mess of
the UGF's with root entanglements, etc... how hard are they to transplant
(by cutting it off of filter if necessary), for something like upgrading
to
a larger tank, etc? or is that too harsh a pruning to survive?

linda

"kush" wrote in message
...
Sigh. Again with the UGF-bashing. I have half-a-dozen tanks and have
been
keeping planted tanks for over twenty-five years. Practically every
single
one has or has had an undergravel filter. There is no problem with using
UGF's.

LeighMo wrote ...

I know Kush doesn't agree,

Correct.

but there's simply no need to have a UGF in a
planted tank... Why complicate your life that way?

Incorrect. It's not a complication, it's a different system. With a UGF it
is possible to keep your substrate really, really clean and extend the
viable lifespan of an aquarium system for years longer than is possible with
a static media bed where materials build up which eventually contribute to
the deterioration and ultimate demise of the system. THAT was a run-on
sentence.

kush

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

LeighMo wrote in message
...
Incorrect. It's not a complication, it's a different system. With a UGF
it
is possible to keep your substrate really, really clean and extend the
viable lifespan of an aquarium system for years longer than is possible
with
a static media bed where materials build up which eventually contribute
to
the deterioration and ultimate demise of the system.

I agree...if you're talking about a non-planted tank. I kept tanks for
years
-- decades, even -- with UGFs. But with plants, they're an impediment,
not a
help.

The last thing you want in a planted tank is "really clean substrate."
Plants
like dirty gravel, preferably slightly anaerobic. (The absorb nutrients
better
that way.) In a healthy planted tank, you don't need the clean the gravel,
even
without a UGF. Eventually, you will have to replant the tank, because the
substrate will get rootbound. But that has nothing to do with dirt in the
gravel. If you use a substrate with is never exhausted, like Flourite,
there
won't be any deterioration or demise.

If you want to keep your gravel really, really clean, then yes, you can't
beat
a UGF for that. If you want to grow plants, it's a needless complication.


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

Hey Guys,

Thanks for all the info.

I still have one question - Using a UGF pulls water through the gravel and
back to the top of the tank.
because of this the gravel becomes a mechanical filter trapping what ever
gets pushed through it (plant matter and fish waste). Isn't that good for
the plants when it comes to feeding?

Ben

"Ben" wrote in message
...
I have a decent sized tank (4x3x2 ft) with only 4 plants and five small
fish
in it, all was going well until all of a sudden the plants with broad
leafs
started going brown and dieing Why??. I have a power head filter and two
under gravel filters. the fish are fine and the two plants that aren't
broad leafed are fine

any suggestions would be greatly appreciated

thanks

Ben

Oh, then I guess you're not using a canister filter, either?

LeighMo wrote in message
...
I still have one question - Using a UGF pulls water through the gravel
and
back to the top of the tank.
because of this the gravel becomes a mechanical filter trapping what ever
gets pushed through it (plant matter and fish waste). Isn't that good for
the plants when it comes to feeding?

If the UGF is working properly, the waste ends up in the water column
(converted to nitrate). That's not bad in and of itself, but most planted
tank
keepers like more control. If we want something in the water column, we
put it
in the water. If we want something in the gravel, we put it in the
gravel.





Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

I use a internal power filter 800 l/h

"kush" wrote in message
...
Oh, then I guess you're not using a canister filter, either?

LeighMo wrote in message
...
I still have one question - Using a UGF pulls water through the gravel
and
back to the top of the tank.
because of this the gravel becomes a mechanical filter trapping what
ever
gets pushed through it (plant matter and fish waste). Isn't that good
for
the plants when it comes to feeding?

If the UGF is working properly, the waste ends up in the water column
(converted to nitrate). That's not bad in and of itself, but most
planted
tank
keepers like more control. If we want something in the water column, we
put it
in the water. If we want something in the gravel, we put it in the
gravel.





Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/