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Old 20-04-2003, 07:22 AM
Flandry
 
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Default Remedies for low KH

So, i finally forked out a bunch of dough for a test kit. Figure if
i'm going to really try to keep plants and nice fish, i better have a
clue what my water conditions are.

I knew already that the tapwater here is very basic, something
confirmed by the test kit. For anybody on the Cambridge, MA water
system, here's what the water conditions are like lately:

pH 8.8 (off the scale)
KH 3 dKH
GH 7 dKH

So, basically (no pun intended), this water is horrible. The surprise
was what i measured in my aquarium:

pH 6.6
KH 2 dKH
GH 7 dKH

Wow. I don't know much these differ from typical values when i'm not
treating for Ich and leaving the lights off, but obviously the tank
needs some alkalinity and that pH is alarmingly low. Problem is that
i have more than enough general hardness for plants as it is, and
don't want to take the typical approach to raising alkalinity by
throwing in some shells and such (Calcium Carbonate - CaCO3), because
that will also raise the GH.

Has anybody used baking soda (Sodium bicarbonate - NaHCO3) for this
purpose? I'm hesitant to use commercial buffers, because they
sometimes contain phosphate (which i DON'T want) and probably Mg or Ca
as well. I shudder to think what would happen now if i started a CO2
injection system without increasing alkalinity. Pickled fish. Ugh.

Cheers
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Old 20-04-2003, 07:22 AM
Rich Conley
 
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Default Remedies for low KH

Its called out-gassing....let your water sit out for a while, then measure
it....I am in allston, and my water comes out of the tap looking like
milk, theres so much gas dissolved in it.

Flandry wrote:

So, i finally forked out a bunch of dough for a test kit. Figure if
i'm going to really try to keep plants and nice fish, i better have a
clue what my water conditions are.

I knew already that the tapwater here is very basic, something
confirmed by the test kit. For anybody on the Cambridge, MA water
system, here's what the water conditions are like lately:

pH 8.8 (off the scale)
KH 3 dKH
GH 7 dKH

So, basically (no pun intended), this water is horrible. The surprise
was what i measured in my aquarium:

pH 6.6
KH 2 dKH
GH 7 dKH

Wow. I don't know much these differ from typical values when i'm not
treating for Ich and leaving the lights off, but obviously the tank
needs some alkalinity and that pH is alarmingly low. Problem is that
i have more than enough general hardness for plants as it is, and
don't want to take the typical approach to raising alkalinity by
throwing in some shells and such (Calcium Carbonate - CaCO3), because
that will also raise the GH.

Has anybody used baking soda (Sodium bicarbonate - NaHCO3) for this
purpose? I'm hesitant to use commercial buffers, because they
sometimes contain phosphate (which i DON'T want) and probably Mg or Ca
as well. I shudder to think what would happen now if i started a CO2
injection system without increasing alkalinity. Pickled fish. Ugh.

Cheers


  #3   Report Post  
Old 20-04-2003, 07:22 AM
Jim Miller
 
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Default Remedies for low KH

tank kh=2 isn't terrible but baking soda is cheap, simple and safe way to
raise it to kh=4 which from most accounts is a good place to be.

jtm

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"Flandry" wrote in message
om...
So, i finally forked out a bunch of dough for a test kit. Figure if
i'm going to really try to keep plants and nice fish, i better have a
clue what my water conditions are.

I knew already that the tapwater here is very basic, something
confirmed by the test kit. For anybody on the Cambridge, MA water
system, here's what the water conditions are like lately:

pH 8.8 (off the scale)
KH 3 dKH
GH 7 dKH

So, basically (no pun intended), this water is horrible. The surprise
was what i measured in my aquarium:

pH 6.6
KH 2 dKH
GH 7 dKH

Wow. I don't know much these differ from typical values when i'm not
treating for Ich and leaving the lights off, but obviously the tank
needs some alkalinity and that pH is alarmingly low. Problem is that
i have more than enough general hardness for plants as it is, and
don't want to take the typical approach to raising alkalinity by
throwing in some shells and such (Calcium Carbonate - CaCO3), because
that will also raise the GH.

Has anybody used baking soda (Sodium bicarbonate - NaHCO3) for this
purpose? I'm hesitant to use commercial buffers, because they
sometimes contain phosphate (which i DON'T want) and probably Mg or Ca
as well. I shudder to think what would happen now if i started a CO2
injection system without increasing alkalinity. Pickled fish. Ugh.

Cheers


  #4   Report Post  
Old 20-04-2003, 07:22 AM
Dave Millman
 
Posts: n/a
Default Remedies for low KH

Flandry wrote:

Has anybody used baking soda (Sodium bicarbonate - NaHCO3) for this
purpose? I'm hesitant to use commercial buffers, because they
sometimes contain phosphate (which i DON'T want) and probably Mg or Ca
as well. I shudder to think what would happen now if i started a CO2
injection system without increasing alkalinity. Pickled fish. Ugh.


Many of us use baking soda every week for exactly that purpose. Buy the
good stuff-good old Arm & Hammer costs me under $2 per year.

  #5   Report Post  
Old 20-04-2003, 07:22 AM
ddaquaria
 
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Default Remedies for low KH

in article , Flandry at
wrote on 2/6/03 1:05 PM:

So, i finally forked out a bunch of dough for a test kit. Figure if
i'm going to really try to keep plants and nice fish, i better have a
clue what my water conditions are.

I knew already that the tapwater here is very basic, something
confirmed by the test kit. For anybody on the Cambridge, MA water
system, here's what the water conditions are like lately:

pH 8.8 (off the scale)
KH 3 dKH
GH 7 dKH

So, basically (no pun intended), this water is horrible. The surprise
was what i measured in my aquarium:

pH 6.6
KH 2 dKH
GH 7 dKH

Wow. I don't know much these differ from typical values when i'm not
treating for Ich and leaving the lights off, but obviously the tank
needs some alkalinity and that pH is alarmingly low. Problem is that
i have more than enough general hardness for plants as it is, and
don't want to take the typical approach to raising alkalinity by
throwing in some shells and such (Calcium Carbonate - CaCO3), because
that will also raise the GH.

Has anybody used baking soda (Sodium bicarbonate - NaHCO3) for this
purpose? I'm hesitant to use commercial buffers, because they
sometimes contain phosphate (which i DON'T want) and probably Mg or Ca
as well. I shudder to think what would happen now if i started a CO2
injection system without increasing alkalinity. Pickled fish. Ugh.

Cheers

I no longer recommend baking soda. I noticed that my java fern tend to
blacken when using baking soda. Also when I suggested baking soda to other
with java fern, they had the same outcome. I now use about a hand full of
dried coral substrate (the stuff you see as the substrate for marine tanks)
placed at the bottom of the canister filter in a filter bag (or panty hose).
This tends to keep my KH around 4 to 5.

big D
--
Remove the word ³REMOVE² to reply to me.

Check out my fish site @
http://homepage.mac.com/ddaquaria/ddaquaria/

Or just a whole lot of macro and other aquarium pictures @
http://homepage.mac.com/ddaquaria/



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Old 20-04-2003, 07:22 AM
Aqua
 
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Default Remedies for low KH

I don't like baking soda, either. I know, theoretically, carbonate is
carbonate...but baking soda seems to stress my fish, while calcium

carbonate
does not.


Where did you get CaCO3? Any online suppliers?

--
Thank You

Dominic
http://www.dlink.org/aqua




  #7   Report Post  
Old 20-04-2003, 07:22 AM
 
Posts: n/a
Default Remedies for low KH

(Flandry) wrote in message . com...
So, i finally forked out a bunch of dough for a test kit. Figure if
i'm going to really try to keep plants and nice fish, i better have a
clue what my water conditions are.

I knew already that the tapwater here is very basic, something
confirmed by the test kit. For anybody on the Cambridge, MA water
system, here's what the water conditions are like lately:

pH 8.8 (off the scale)
KH 3 dKH
GH 7 dKH

So, basically (no pun intended), this water is horrible.


The Tap is fine, actually excellent.
Mine's KH 3 and GH of 5.
All you do is large frequent water changes(50% weekly) and add CO2 to
lower the pH to 6.5 or so. Try and keep it there when the lights are
on.
That's all there is to the CO2 KH GH issue for you.

If you want to compicate it, you can, but I see no reason for that.
Don't worry about tap pH, worry about the tank's KH and pH and use
only CO2 gas to lower pH.

That's it. If you have a KH of 2, it might be due to the plants
removing the HCO3 (KH) and if you add enough CO2, the plants will use
the CO2 instead and leave the KH alone. But even if it did drop one
degree, you'd still have enough CO2 with a pH of 6.5.

Once you get a good understanding and routine going for the CO2 and
can keep good levels during the day period when the lights are on,
then you can move on to nutrients which is really much easier I think
for most folks especially if you do regular routine 50% weekly water
changes and maintenance.

Regards,
Tom Barr
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Old 20-04-2003, 07:22 AM
Victor M. Martinez
 
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Default Remedies for low KH

Aqua wrote:
Where did you get CaCO3? Any online suppliers?


I keep a piece of limestone in my tank to supply that.

--
Victor M. Martinez

http://www.che.utexas.edu/~martiv

  #9   Report Post  
Old 20-04-2003, 07:22 AM
Lee Clemmer
 
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Default Remedies for low KH

Your pet store may have "Rep-Cal", a finely powdered pure calcium carbonate,
used for a dietary supplement for reptiles.

I have begun using this as the amount of sodium from baking soda needed to
raise my kH was causing some problems.

It's pure CaCO3 and has no additives, unlike any of the health food
supplements that I found. I didn't check the hippie store, but I expect that
it would be much more expensive than the animal version from the
big-pet-store-chain.

Lee



"Aqua" wrote in message
...
I don't like baking soda, either. I know, theoretically, carbonate is
carbonate...but baking soda seems to stress my fish, while calcium

carbonate
does not.


Where did you get CaCO3? Any online suppliers?

--
Thank You

Dominic
http://www.dlink.org/aqua






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Old 20-04-2003, 07:22 AM
Pete in the Colorado Mtns
 
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Default Remedies for low KH

What does the low pH do to the snails?
pete

LeighMo wrote:
pH 8.8 (off the scale)
KH 3 dKH
GH 7 dKH

So, basically (no pun intended), this water is horrible.



Why is that horrible?

The pH of tapwater should be measured after the water is aerated for 20
minutes, or allowed to sit in a cup overnight. The water in the pipes may have
extra CO2, or be CO2-deficient. (The water company sometimes adjusts the pH of
the water that way, in order to prevent pipe corrosion.)


The surprise
was what i measured in my aquarium:

pH 6.6
KH 2 dKH
GH 7 dKH



Sounds normal, if you are injecting CO2. The KH probably dropped a little due
to the nitrogen cycle in the tank. It gradually eats up the KH in the tank.
(One reason why regular water changes are important.)


Problem is that
i have more than enough general hardness for plants as it is, and
don't want to take the typical approach to raising alkalinity by
throwing in some shells and such (Calcium Carbonate - CaCO3), because
that will also raise the GH.



Don't worry about it. Plants like hard water. I add calcium carbonate
regularly to one of my planted tanks. (It's heavily stocked, so it's hard to
keep the pH up, even with large weekly water changes.) The fish don't mind the
low pH, but the snails do.


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/



--
--
pete

"It is unwise to insult a doughnut be refusing to eat it."



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Old 20-04-2003, 07:22 AM
 
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Default Remedies for low KH

"Aqua" wrote in message ...
I don't like baking soda, either. I know, theoretically, carbonate is
carbonate...but baking soda seems to stress my fish, while calcium

carbonate
does not.


Where did you get CaCO3? Any online suppliers?


Buy finely ground aragonite, reef stores sell it. Get the finest grade
they have. Should be pretty cheap. The finer the better since it will
dissolve better this way.
You can get a chuck of limestone etc also but it'll take a few years
to dissolve that.
Aragonite has the same composition but a different structure that
dissolves a little bit easier than plain old calcite.

Often if the KH is low, so is the Ca.

Not sure about your black fern. I used baking soda and so have many
other folks with Java ferns, I have not seen what you speak of. Might
be something else in your tap water. Baking soda does have HCO3 and
Na, neither of which should cause a problem with Java fern which is
rather salt tolerant. CO3 is the same CO3 is the same CO3, doesn't
matter how you get it there. CO3 will simply shift to HCO3 at the
pH's/KH's we deal with.

Regards,
Tom Barr
Regards,
Tom Barr
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