Hi all,

I posted earlier about trying to clear out a cloudy tank... Anyway, I did
some minor regimen and now the tank is clear.. so it seems like the
cloudiness was more of an algae thing and not a so much of a bacterial
thing. This is what I did:

1. started to add Flourish Excel 2-3x week
2. started to be more routine about adding Flourish 2x week
3. started to add Flourish Iron whenever I add Flourish
4. reduced the amount of natural lighting (not completely out, but closed
some of the shades)

now, the cloudy water is gone, plants look great... but on high-brightness
area, I have what seems to be combination of beard algae (dense short, furry
stuff), thread algae (something green, thin, and long), and tufts of brown
something (looks like a miniature stringy foxtail but it's more brown than
green).

the brown something seems under control (doesn't grow much), but the beard
and the thin long algaes cover the brightly lit leaves rather quickly... so
what does this mean? am I giving too much or too less of something?

brightly lit = leaves that are closest to the lamp.. such as long leaves of
the apongeton boivianus, older sword leaves, etc

also, there were bunch of short (3mm), singlet strands of green filamental
algae growing sparsely on one of the tank walls, so I scraped it out (the
otos didn't seem like they were eating it, and it was getting a bit
unsighly..). I don't know what algae that was.

linda

linda mar wrote:

Hi all,

I posted earlier about trying to clear out a cloudy tank... Anyway, I did
some minor regimen and now the tank is clear.. so it seems like the
cloudiness was more of an algae thing and not a so much of a bacterial
thing. This is what I did:

1. started to add Flourish Excel 2-3x week
2. started to be more routine about adding Flourish 2x week
3. started to add Flourish Iron whenever I add Flourish
4. reduced the amount of natural lighting (not completely out, but closed
some of the shades)

You are making forward progress. Unfortunately, we cannot diagnose without the
full range of tank parameters and measurements:

Tank size, lighting, substrate, weekly water changes & water source
KH, GH, pH
NO3, Fe
Fish load and plant load
Any other chemicals added (make this one easy: just stop adding any buffers, pH
adjusters, etc.)

Hi

1. started to add Flourish Excel 2-3x week
2. started to be more routine about adding Flourish 2x week
3. started to add Flourish Iron whenever I add Flourish
4. reduced the amount of natural lighting (not completely out, but
closed
some of the shades)

You are making forward progress. Unfortunately, we cannot diagnose without
the
full range of tank parameters and measurements:

Tank size, lighting, substrate, weekly water changes & water source
KH, GH, pH
NO3, Fe
Fish load and plant load
Any other chemicals added (make this one easy: just stop adding any
buffers, pH
adjusters, etc.)


let's see..

tank size: 37G (with the thick gravel, it's actually about 30G actual
volume)
Temp: ~78-80F
lighting: 55W CF (ahsupply retrofit)
substrate: 2.5" thick pea-gravel UGF (I know.. very bad for plants)
misc: two bog wood that leeches tannin (water is yellow..)
water change: 20-25% biweekly (sort of averages out to about every 1.5weeks)
water source: tap water conditioned using AP Plus+
KH=GH=3 (using AP test kit)
pH = 7.5-ish (hard to tell since it's smack between the limit of the high
and low range pH indicator)
NO3 = unknown (test kit on the way)
NH3, NO2=0ppm
Fe = don't have test kit
fish load: 2 lace gouramis (juveniles), 7 danios, 7 white cloud, 4 oto (and
bunch of hydras and snails that I'm trying to pick out daily..)
plants: 5 large swords (ozelot, amazon), ~8 crypts, bunch of foxtail, rotala
indica, lysmacia, anacharis, anubias, A. boivianus bulb, 2 small sword
plants (E. parviflorus?), java fern
chemicals added: once in two days or so ~3ml flouish excel, 2x week ~1ml
Fourish, 1-2x week ~1ml Flourish iron, each sword plants and the apongeton
has Flourish Tab near its roots. no buffers or adjusters.. just plain ol
tap...

linda

Hi Dave,

thanks for writing!

I know you didn't plan it this way, but a UGF filter plus big pea gravel
is
probably the worst combination you could have come up with for a planted
tank.

I know.. I really should have surfed the web before I went shopping, but I
didn't :-( as you mentioned, *eventually* I will rip out the UGF and/or
replace the substrate.. Right now I have some flourite around the base of
the plant (I had initially tried to plant the plants in a shallow pot with
holes full of flourite, but that didn't quite work well.. so.. in stead I
just dumped about 1cup of flourite around just the base of the sword
plants...) but don't quite have the means to rip out everything and start
over just yet... (pretty large task as i can barely reach the bottom of the
tank as-is.. 22" deep..). next time (when i do rip out the UGF) I'll go
canister, wth a nice flourite red (will cories be ok with flourite? they're
kind of sharp and not rounded...)

Your fish load appears light, which means you probably have low nitrates
with
that many plants if they are healthy and growing. But that's just a guess,
assuming zero nitrates in your tap water (around here, nitrates are 30ppm
out of
the tap!) You need the test kit to find out.

yup. it should arrive tomorrow.. fish load won't be light after tomorrow..
i'm getting some cories tonight.. then it will be pretty full, I think.
nitrate is zero in the tap..

I see no Potassium in your ferts. Around here, Potassium is the first
nutrient
to run out in a new planted tank since there's very little in the tap
water.

oh. I guess Flourish doesn't add potassium? grrrr...

To wrap all this up together:

SHORT TERM RECOMMENDATIONS:
* Dose Flourish Potassium or K2SO4 for Potassium.
* Measure Nitrates. Dose KNO3 or Flourish Nitrogen as required.
* Consider adding CO2. The Hagen Nutrifin system costs less than
$30, and DIY CO2 costs less than $10 to start. Both work well.

I have Nutrifin on order (same order as the nitrate kit).. for now excel
will have to do :-P

is TMG same as having Flourish and all the other trace things? I'm starting
to juggle so many bottles i'm running out of cabinet space, and on one of
the posts said that TMG has everything needed... if so, I'll plan on just
figuring out how to tie me over until I finish with all the Seachem stuff
and then switch over to TMG..

THINGS TO CONSIDER:
* Consider a different substrate. Smaller gravel or large sand would
work better, Flourite and similar are the ultimate.

yup. this is in the longterm plan. just not now..

* Consider a different filter. Cannisters work best. The HOT
Magnum Pro is inexpensive for your size tank, and has a
vacuum attachment which can be adapted as a CO2 reactor.

this also is in the longterm plan. just not now :-) i'm oogling the Eheim
wet/dry filter :-) don't konw when that will be...

thanks!
linda

Further reading:

http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Fertilizer/
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_nitrate.htm

hi,

next time (when i do rip out the UGF) I'll go
canister, wth a nice flourite red (will cories be ok with flourite?
they're
kind of sharp and not rounded...)

It's not as big a job as you think. Some people have even done it with the
fish
still in the tank.

given the tank depth, it will be a pretty large job for me... (22" deep..
I'm rather vertically challenged, so...) sigh. next time :-)

Flourite Red. It's *too* red. Looks unnatural, IMHO. The regular
Flourite is
plenty red enough for me!

:-) they just remind me of the terra cotta pots... so they don't bother me
too much... I guess i'll probably mix the regular and red for some
variation...

oh. I guess Flourish doesn't add potassium? grrrr...

It does, but often it's not enough for a high-tech tank. Many of us
Flourish
users add Flourish Iron and Flourish Potassium as well as regular
Flourish.
IME, Flourish + Flourish Iron + Flourish Potassium = Tropica Mastergrow.

A cheaper and widely available alternative is Tetra Florapride, which is
mostly
iron and potassium. Flourish plus Tetra Florapride is a pretty complete
fert.

I guess I'll just finish the current flourite bottles, and then move on to
TMG... one bottle is much easier than juggling three.. (I'll probably
eventually do what you seem to do, what you posted earlier.. pre-mix
everything and just deal with one consolidated bottle to dose..)

linda



Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

I guess I should add "short arms" in addition to vertically challenged.
[grin] even when on step stool, i can *barely* reach the gravel surface,
and the surface is about 2" thick from the bottom of the tank. lowering
water level helps in that I don't have to be wearing tanktops to avoid
getting wet clothes (huh.. I wonder if term "tank top" has any
correlation!).

Most of time time I am trimming plants by feel, and "blind" since I can't
watch and reach into the tank at the same time. looking through the water
from above gives too much distortion, and I've smacked my nose/face onto the
tank rim when I try to look while reaching the bottom. I can't reach down
while looking from the side (thank goodness for those landscaping kit
scissors!)..

:-P

linda

"LeighMo" wrote in message
...
given the tank depth, it will be a pretty large job for me... (22" deep..
I'm rather vertically challenged, so...) sigh. next time :-)

Lower the water level and stand on a stool or stepladder. I'm vertically
challenged, too, and there are some plants I can only reach during my
weekly
water changes, when I remove 30% of the water from the tank.



Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/