I have tap water that is very soft 1° dH for GH and KH (my water
treatment department reports it is around 30ppm or 1.6 dH, but I can
not get a reading equal or above 1°dH with my tetra kit).

As such, I generally add products such as Dupla KH+GH and baking soda
to help raise my GH and KH and to stabilize my pH.

I would like to start making my own mixture for KH/GH elevation and
plan to include the following:

CaCO3 (Calcium Carbonate or calcite - powdered lime stone)
NaHCO3 (sodium bicarbonate - baking soda)
MgSO4 (Magnesium Sulfate - epsom salt)

Has anyone done something similar? I am curious about the ratio to
use or if other chemicals should be used. I plan to use 1/3 of each
and then apply a measured amount of the end result to a gallon of
water and measure the rise in GH/KH and use that to develop a dosing
plan to apply when I change water.

If you have done something similar or have some input from experience,
I would love to hear the process and results.

Has anyone done something similar? I am curious about the ratio to
use or if other chemicals should be used. I plan to use 1/3 of each
and then apply a measured amount of the end result to a gallon of
water and measure the rise in GH/KH and use that to develop a dosing
plan to apply when I change water.


GH-
MgSO4 and CaCl2 work very good and dissolve fast and have no effect on
the KH.
KH-
Baking soda for the KH.

CaCO3 is rather slow to dissolve, powdered aragonite is a bit better
but you are adding both KH(CO3 part) and Ca there.

CaCl2 is sold as pool hardness increaser. I got a 7 kg tub for 6$.

Regards,
Tom Barr

On 20 Apr 2003 13:35:27 -0700,

CaCl2 is sold as pool hardness increaser. I got a 7 kg tub for 6$.

Thanks for the info. Is this the same stuff sold as snow melt?

"James Ervin" wrote in message
...
On 20 Apr 2003 13:35:27 -0700,

CaCl2 is sold as pool hardness increaser. I got a 7 kg tub for 6$.

Thanks for the info. Is this the same stuff sold as snow melt?

I'd recommend dolomite, which can be bought at any garden shop. MgCa(CO3)2
it doesn't add a lot of sulfate or Cl to the system, targets just what you
need. Unless finely powdered it won't bring up the gH really fast, but it
will work.

Long term it should also help the kH too. Baking soda is the best bet for a
quick fix for KH

Bob

I'd recommend dolomite, which can be bought at any garden shop. MgCa(CO3)2
it doesn't add a lot of sulfate or Cl to the system, targets just what you
need. Unless finely powdered it won't bring up the gH really fast, but it
will work.

This is good too.

Why is SO4 bad though? Cl is a given to a certain degree but SO4?
I've had very high levels and never saw anything over a number of years.
Regards,
Tom Barr

" wrote in message
m...
I'd recommend dolomite, which can be bought at any garden shop.
MgCa(CO3)2
it doesn't add a lot of sulfate or Cl to the system, targets just what
you
need. Unless finely powdered it won't bring up the gH really fast, but
it
will work.

This is good too.

Why is SO4 bad though? Cl is a given to a certain degree but SO4?
I've had very high levels and never saw anything over a number of years.
Regards,
Tom Barr

I'm sure there are some fish that prefer high sulfate water. I was just
assuming most tropical fish do better in reasonably low sulfate water. No
real data, but in the back of my head, I think sulfates tend to be higher in
arid regions.. could be wrong.

High sulfate water is related to all sorts of increased diseases in
humans..(so is super soft water or super hard water). The geographic
correlation between groundwater and disease is an interesting subject. Too
little or too much dissolved solids in water isn't good... over a life time.
Unless you are in parts of NE Wyoming where MgSO4 is common in the water,
then it is rough in the short run. Fortunately, the Gillette has had the
pipe line bringing in Madison Formation water for years. What this has to
do with fish I don't know ;-)

My thought was basically why add something to a tank that you really don't
need and isn't going to be utilized by the plants to any high degree. Also
sulfates are involved in certain types of biodegradation....sulfate reducing
bugs, methane is a common by product.. Not a bad thing when dealing with
gasoline of other hydrocarbon contamination... I don't know what they'd
produce in an aquarium.... I'm a geologist not a bio-chemist.

Bob

I'm sure there are some fish that prefer high sulfate water. I was just
assuming most tropical fish do better in reasonably low sulfate water. No
real data, but in the back of my head, I think sulfates tend to be higher in
arid regions.. could be wrong.

High sulfate water is related to all sorts of increased diseases in
humans..(so is super soft water or super hard water). The geographic
correlation between groundwater and disease is an interesting subject. Too
little or too much dissolved solids in water isn't good... over a life time.
Unless you are in parts of NE Wyoming where MgSO4 is common in the water,
then it is rough in the short run.

Very:-) Makes you wonder how the first folks that lived there found
out the hard way.

I know a number of rift cichlids that do well in high SO4, K+, Ca,
Mg, CO3, levels even if you depress the pH with CO2.
Folks worry too much about pH IMO.

Fortunately, Gillette has had the
pipe line bringing in Madison Formation water for years. What this has to
do with fish I don't know ;-)

I've been through Gillette,(few folks stop there except to see Devil's
Tower) and most of WY. Mg SO4 content can have plenty to do with
fish/plants.

My thought was basically why add something to a tank that you really don't
need and isn't going to be utilized by the plants to any high degree. Also
sulfates are involved in certain types of biodegradation....sulfate reducing
bugs, methane is a common by product.. Not a bad thing when dealing with
gasoline of other hydrocarbon contamination... I don't know what they'd
produce in an aquarium.... I'm a geologist not a bio-chemist.

Bob

I forgot to mention the Cl2 from the CaCl2 might be worse actually
than the Dolomite.

Powdered dolomite would be perfect I think and it's cheap(not sure
about powdered form).

Better than the CaCl2 and MgSO4 mix if they want KH as well.

Regards,
Tom Barr

Mid posted....
" wrote in message
om...

Unless you are in parts of NE Wyoming where MgSO4 is common in the
water,
then it is rough in the short run.

Very:-) Makes you wonder how the first folks that lived there found
out the hard way.

Frequent trips to the outhouse for the first two weeks. Them most get used
to it. Interestingly...coffee made with the water is has twice the effect
of
plain water.
I know a number of rift cichlids that do well in high SO4, K+, Ca,
Mg, CO3, levels even if you depress the pH with CO2.
Folks worry too much about pH IMO.
So the Angel breeder down the street tells me, his breed in 7.4 to 7.8
water, right from the tap.


I've been through Gillette,(few folks stop there except to see Devil's
Tower) and most of WY. Mg SO4 content can have plenty to do with
fish/plants.
Wonderful place, in my previous life I made obscene amounts of money
supervising oil drilling in the area while playing most of the time in the
nearest creek with my boys. My boys and I knew ever snake, lizard and
turtle in the area. They have some huge turtles in really tiny creeks in
that area.

I forgot to mention the Cl2 from the CaCl2 might be worse actually
than the Dolomite.

Powdered dolomite would be perfect I think and it's cheap(not sure
about powdered form).

Better than the CaCl2 and MgSO4 mix if they want KH as well.

Regards,
Tom Barr

Maybe I missed it here or on aquatic plants... What is you thesis on? As
my boys and I learned, falling off logs is half the fun ;-) Sometimes, I
think when I retire, I'll go back to school ;-)

Bob

Maybe I missed it here or on aquatic plants... What is you thesis on?

1)Algae in Floridian springs.
2)Photorespiration in freshwater ecosystems
and 3)Themal cycling flux of substrates in aquatic ecosystems.

That should keep me out of trouble for a while.

As
my boys and I learned, falling off logs is half the fun ;-) Sometimes, I
think when I retire, I'll go back to school ;-)
Bob

There's worse things you can do.

Regards,
TomBarr

" wrote in message
om...
Maybe I missed it here or on aquatic plants... What is you thesis on?

1)Algae in Floridian springs.
2)Photorespiration in freshwater ecosystems
and 3)Themal cycling flux of substrates in aquatic ecosystems.

That should keep me out of trouble for a while.

As
my boys and I learned, falling off logs is half the fun ;-) Sometimes,
I
think when I retire, I'll go back to school ;-)
Bob

There's worse things you can do.

Regards,
TomBarr

Phd or post-doc? Watch the slippery logs.

Are there unique types of algae in different springs. In a previous life,
as a student teacher, in Twin Falls Idaho, I found quite different micro
fauna in different springs and seeps in the Thousand Springs Area. Didn't
spend much time on the algae. Found myself with a federally protected darter
one, by accident. I took him home;-)

Had a friend who did some work on algae distribution in ponds in the Dry
Valley region of Antarctica. There was a normal sequence as one moved away
from the coast, except where people had worked. It seems that frozen lakes
make good helicopter pads. It appeared that algae was being moved around
stuck to helicopter wheels. I've heard that ducks do the same in temperate
regions.

Enjoy, my life hasn't been half as much fun since it was decided I was too
senior to do field work anymore ;-)

Bob
Gray Beard Geologist
Amateur pond, creek and puddle explorer

On Wed, 23 Apr 2003 21:30:36 GMT, "Robert Flory"
wrote:

make good helicopter pads. It appeared that algae was being moved around
stuck to helicopter wheels. I've heard that ducks do the same in temperate
regions.

Ducks stick to helicopter wheels? Bummer for the ducks...


Chuck Gadd
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua

"Chuck Gadd" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Apr 2003 21:30:36 GMT, "Robert Flory"
wrote:

make good helicopter pads. It appeared that algae was being moved around
stuck to helicopter wheels. I've heard that ducks do the same in
temperate
regions.

Ducks stick to helicopter wheels? Bummer for the ducks...


Chuck Gadd
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua
LOL, should have been clearer, as I'm sure you understood....duckweed and
algae sticking to the feet of ducks. ;-0

Bob