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Old 28-04-2003, 05:08 PM
Alan Silver
 
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Default It's bubble city in there, but no real plant growth !!

Hello,

I have a 150 litre tank, with 3x40W tubes, DIY CO2 and PMDD, soft
slightly acidic water. Fish load is moderate and the plant list is :-

two small echinodorus (standard issue ones)
one very large amazon sword
one medium sized echinodorus rubin
quite a lot of twisted vallis
some java moss growing on wood

I used to use Tetra plant food and was constantly pulling out twisted
vallis as they were spreading everywhere and taking over the tank. Since
I switched to PMDD, they appear to have stopped growing. The amazon
sword has gone wild (even more than it was before) and the other plants
have shown little change. They grow slowly, but noting special.

I often see masses of bubbles, so I know there's photosynthesis going
on.

I started dosing with a few drops of PMDD every other day, but increased
this when nothing was happening. I now pour the stuff in, far more than
everyone seems to recommend. Algae is almost zero, unless I don't do
anything to the tank for two weeks, in which case there's a light coat
of it on the glass which cleans off easily.

Any ideas ? TIA

--
Alan Silver
Please remove the "furryferret" if replying by e-mail

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Old 29-04-2003, 12:56 AM
Dave Millman
 
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Default It's bubble city in there, but no real plant growth !!

Alan Silver wrote:

I have a 150 litre tank, with 3x40W tubes, DIY CO2 and PMDD, soft
slightly acidic water. Fish load is moderate and the plant list is :-

two small echinodorus (standard issue ones)
one very large amazon sword
one medium sized echinodorus rubin
quite a lot of twisted vallis
some java moss growing on wood

I used to use Tetra plant food and was constantly pulling out twisted
vallis as they were spreading everywhere and taking over the tank. Since
I switched to PMDD, they appear to have stopped growing. The amazon
sword has gone wild (even more than it was before) and the other plants
have shown little change. They grow slowly, but noting special.

I often see masses of bubbles, so I know there's photosynthesis going
on.

I started dosing with a few drops of PMDD every other day, but increased
this when nothing was happening. I now pour the stuff in, far more than
everyone seems to recommend. Algae is almost zero, unless I don't do
anything to the tank for two weeks, in which case there's a light coat
of it on the glass which cleans off easily.


What is in your PMDD mix? The "standard" components include:

* Trace mix (Plantex is common)
* K2SO4
* MgSO4
* KNO3 (amount varies)
* KH2PO4 (optional)

The source of all information regarding PMDD is he
http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Fertilizer/

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Old 29-04-2003, 09:56 AM
Alex R
 
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Default It's bubble city in there, but no real plant growth !!

"Alan Silver"
wrote in
message
...
Hello,

I have a 150 litre tank, with 3x40W tubes, DIY CO2 and PMDD, soft
slightly acidic water. Fish load is moderate and the plant list is :-


I often see masses of bubbles, so I know there's photosynthesis going
on.

I started dosing with a few drops of PMDD every other day, but increased
this when nothing was happening. I now pour the stuff in, far more than
everyone seems to recommend. Algae is almost zero, unless I don't do
anything to the tank for two weeks, in which case there's a light coat
of it on the glass which cleans off easily.

Any ideas ? TIA


In your other post, you mentioned that your nitrate is almost 0. With over 3
Watts per gallon, that's a dangerously low level to have. I'm surprised you
don't have much algae. If you're using the standard PMDD mixture, you should
add enough to maintain an NO3 level of around 10 ppm. The lack of
macronutrients N, K, and P would explain the slow growth. Make sure your NO3
test kit is accurate and keep adding until you get 10 ppm or more NO3. Don't
let it fall below 5 ppm.
__
Alex


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Old 29-04-2003, 03:20 PM
Alan Silver
 
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Default It's bubble city in there, but no real plant growth !!

In article , Dave Millman
writes
What is in your PMDD mix?


Must be honest, I don't know. I bought it from someone called Nicholas
Cardwell, whose name I found in a plant forum. He had bought the
ingredients for himself and was happy to sell off some of the excess (he
had about 5Kg of the stuff). He was using it himself and seemed to be
happy with it.

After my initial lack of reaction to it, I also wondered if it was the
real stuff, but have no way of checking.

As I said, I *am* getting loads of bubbles on regular occasions,
something that I never saw with the Tetra fertiliser.

Thanx for the reply, any further comments are very welcome.

--
Alan Silver
Please remove the "furryferret" if replying by e-mail
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Old 29-04-2003, 03:20 PM
Alan Silver
 
Posts: n/a
Default It's bubble city in there, but no real plant growth !!

In article [email protected], Alex R
writes
In your other post, you mentioned that your nitrate is almost 0. With
over 3 Watts per gallon, that's a dangerously low level to have. I'm
surprised you don't have much algae. If you're using the standard PMDD
mixture, you should add enough to maintain an NO3 level of around 10
ppm. The lack of macronutrients N, K, and P would explain the slow
growth. Make sure your NO3 test kit is accurate and keep adding until
you get 10 ppm or more NO3. Don't
let it fall below 5 ppm.


confession
The nitrate/nitrite/ammonia levels quoted were not accurate, nor
guaranteed. I gave up checking them some time ago when the tank had been
stable for ages. With a low fish load and lots of plants, I never needed
to worry about them. I quoted from memory what they were last time I
checked. Nitrates were never zero, but always low enough to be within
happy limits
/confession

OK, I better go and check them. I will probably need a new nitrate test
kit as the one I have is a bit old. I'll monitor it and see what
happens.

Thanx for the reply.

--
Alan Silver
Please remove the "furryferret" if replying by e-mail


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Old 30-04-2003, 03:32 AM
James Ervin
 
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Default It's bubble city in there, but no real plant growth !!

Must be honest, I don't know. I bought it from someone called Nicholas
Cardwell, whose name I found in a plant forum. He had bought the
ingredients for himself and was happy to sell off some of the excess (he
had about 5Kg of the stuff). He was using it himself and seemed to be
happy with it.


You can take a gallon of distilled water, add 1 ml of your pmdd and
then test for P, N and K and get a good idea of what your are putting
in the tank.





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Old 30-04-2003, 08:20 AM
Alex R
 
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Default It's bubble city in there, but no real plant growth !!

"Alan Silver"
wrote in
message
...

confession
The nitrate/nitrite/ammonia levels quoted were not accurate, nor
guaranteed. I gave up checking them some time ago when the tank had been
stable for ages. With a low fish load and lots of plants, I never needed
to worry about them. I quoted from memory what they were last time I
checked. Nitrates were never zero, but always low enough to be within
happy limits
/confession

OK, I better go and check them. I will probably need a new nitrate test
kit as the one I have is a bit old. I'll monitor it and see what
happens.



As long as you're buying new test kits, get a phosphate kit as well. With
your lighting, it's likely that there is not enough PO4 in your tank. And I
doubt your PMDD mixture has any potassium phosphate. Plants need PO4 as much
as other macronutrients. It might be a little difficult to find KH2PO4,
though.
__
Alex


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Old 30-04-2003, 05:56 PM
Alan Silver
 
Posts: n/a
Default It's bubble city in there, but no real plant growth !!

In article [email protected], Alex R
writes
As long as you're buying new test kits, get a phosphate kit as well.
With your lighting, it's likely that there is not enough PO4 in your
tank. And I doubt your PMDD mixture has any potassium phosphate. Plants
need PO4 as much as other macronutrients. It might be a little
difficult to find KH2PO4,
though.


OK thanx for the idea. Any idea what contains PO4 ?

--
Alan Silver
Please remove the "furryferret" if replying by e-mail
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Old 02-05-2003, 03:56 PM
Tasslehoff
 
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Default It's bubble city in there, but no real plant growth !!

*snip*
"Alan Silver"
wrote in
OK thanx for the idea. Any idea what contains PO4 ?


Fleet enema from your pharmacy(drugstore). 1-2 drops/day for your size tank
I think. Best to get a phosphate test kit as well just in case.



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Old 05-05-2003, 05:20 PM
Alan Silver
 
Posts: n/a
Default It's bubble city in there, but no real plant growth !!

In article , Tasslehoff
writes
OK thanx for the idea. Any idea what contains PO4 ?


Fleet enema from your pharmacy(drugstore).


!!!!!!!!!

Well cut off both my legs and call me shorty !! Who would have thought
of putting an enema in your fish tank ? Hope it doesn't make the fish,
well, you know what blush

1-2 drops/day for your size tank I think. Best to get a phosphate
test kit as well just in case.


Thanx for the tip

--
Alan Silver
Please remove the "furryferret" if replying by e-mail


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Old 17-07-2003, 09:43 PM
Alan Silver
 
Posts: n/a
Default It's bubble city in there, but no real plant growth !!

In article , Tasslehoff
writes
OK thanx for the idea. Any idea what contains PO4 ?


Fleet enema from your pharmacy(drugstore).


!!!!!!!!!

Well cut off both my legs and call me shorty !! Who would have thought
of putting an enema in your fish tank ? Hope it doesn't make the fish,
well, you know what blush

1-2 drops/day for your size tank I think. Best to get a phosphate
test kit as well just in case.


Thanx for the tip

--
Alan Silver
Please remove the "furryferret" if replying by e-mail


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