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Old 08-05-2003, 10:32 PM
Martin
 
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Default Adding Potassium - any thoughts

Right got my chemicals...

KNO3 and K2SO4 to start with - am going to dose with KNO3 first to see what
the effects are...This will put more K in the tank than I guess I have at
the moment. If successful then in goes the K2SO4 to make up the difference
in K.

I will be aiming for about 12ppm Nitrate. The nitrate level I want will give
me 8 ppm of K in the tank.

I will also be aiming for about 20ppm K. So when I dose with K2SO4 I will be
adding a further 12ppm of K which leaves me with 15ppm of introduced SO4.

So, what's the effect that SO4 has on the plants or fish?

This is as much fun as I had last night at the local Curry house.
Martin


"Martin" wrote in message
...
Paul,
I was under the impression that, as I have 100% flourite as the substrate,
then this already has all the iron and trace elements that I may need - it
is fractured clay. I believe the chemistry is OK for trace elements.

Martin

PS. I am actually getting laboratory grade KNO3 and K2SO4 now as I don't
(100%) trust the gardening stuff not to have some nasty trace elements in

it
(like pesticides) (it won't go to waste though).





  #17   Report Post  
Old 08-05-2003, 10:56 PM
Kelvyn Shaw
 
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Default Adding Potassium - any thoughts

Sulphur is a macro nutrient and will be provided by SO4.
I found a table the relative nutient usage but i dont know how correct it
is.


appox G/Ltr % of total Ratio to Fe
N 1.41 6.41% 3.06
K 13.80 62.53% 29.84
S 5.19 23.50% 11.21
Mg 0.95 4.32% 2.06
Fe 0.46 2.10% 1.00
Mn 0.13 0.60% 0.29
Zn 0.03 0.12% 0.06
Cu 0.01 0.03% 0.01
Mo 0.00 0.01% 0.01
B 0.08 0.38% 0.18
Co 0.00 0.00% 0.00
And two important quanities
NO3 6.26 -- 13.54
SO4 15.56 -- 33.63


  #18   Report Post  
Old 09-05-2003, 08:32 PM
Martin
 
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Default Adding Potassium - any thoughts

Kelvyn - Thanks for that, did you get my email regarding that chemical
company? I thought it was better to send it via email instead of posting it
up here!

Have you contacted them?

"Kelvyn Shaw" wrote in message
...
Sulphur is a macro nutrient and will be provided by SO4.
I found a table the relative nutient usage but i dont know how correct it
is.


appox G/Ltr % of total Ratio to Fe
N 1.41 6.41% 3.06
K 13.80 62.53% 29.84
S 5.19 23.50% 11.21
Mg 0.95 4.32% 2.06
Fe 0.46 2.10% 1.00
Mn 0.13 0.60% 0.29
Zn 0.03 0.12% 0.06
Cu 0.01 0.03% 0.01
Mo 0.00 0.01% 0.01
B 0.08 0.38% 0.18
Co 0.00 0.00% 0.00
And two important quanities
NO3 6.26 -- 13.54
SO4 15.56 -- 33.63




  #19   Report Post  
Old 10-05-2003, 11:56 PM
Kelvyn Shaw
 
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Default Adding Potassium - any thoughts

I got the email, thanks for that, but have not contacted them yet.


  #20   Report Post  
Old 11-05-2003, 12:44 AM
Kelvyn Shaw
 
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Default Adding Potassium - any thoughts

The reason i want trace elements without Iron in them is because i have 100%
flourite gravel. So i dont need to add as much iron if any, but cutting down
on iron would also mean limiting trace elements unless i can get trace
element without iron.
I have found out that www.animal-house.co.uk/ has started selling Kent
marines aquabotanic range of pmdd www.kentmarine.com/html/botanica.html
which has trace element-iron mixture.




  #21   Report Post  
Old 17-07-2003, 09:43 PM
Kelvyn Shaw
 
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Default Adding Potassium - any thoughts

I use the four fertilisers from gemgardening

1. sulphate of potash (K2O)
2. Nitrate of soda (NaNO3, sodium nitrate)
3. Superphosphate (P2O5, phosphorus pentoxide)
4. Garden Lime (CaO, Calcium Oxide). This when mixed with water becomes
Ca(HO)2 calcium hydroxide, which then combines with CO2 in the water to form
CaCO3 Calcium carbonate which increase my KH and GH.

Ideally I would like some K2SO4 and KNO3 and also micro nutrients without
any iron. But in the UK its impossable.


  #22   Report Post  
Old 17-07-2003, 09:43 PM
Martin
 
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Default Adding Potassium - any thoughts

Kelvyn,

Unless I am totally wrong - Sulphate of Potash is K20 + S, however, the S is
in the form of Sulphate so what you have is actually K2SO4....

Anyway - I have just found a lab chemical outlet in UK called AvonChem
(based in Macclesfield) - if its any good (and I will check tomorrow) then I
am buying the chemicals direct - it works out at about 5.85 per kg for each
one that I want (KNO3 and K2SO4) - that should be ample for 4 years of
dosing - lol.

I have now got all the maths that I need if anyone else wants it in digest
form let me know and I will post it. Have obtained it from other sites -
hope its all OK.

Martin

"Kelvyn Shaw" wrote in message
...
I use the four fertilisers from gemgardening

1. sulphate of potash (K2O)
2. Nitrate of soda (NaNO3, sodium nitrate)
3. Superphosphate (P2O5, phosphorus pentoxide)
4. Garden Lime (CaO, Calcium Oxide). This when mixed with water becomes
Ca(HO)2 calcium hydroxide, which then combines with CO2 in the water to

form
CaCO3 Calcium carbonate which increase my KH and GH.

Ideally I would like some K2SO4 and KNO3 and also micro nutrients without
any iron. But in the UK its impossable.




  #23   Report Post  
Old 17-07-2003, 09:44 PM
Kelvyn Shaw
 
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Default Adding Potassium - any thoughts

I called Avonchem today to check if they would sell to private individuals
but they wouldnt. I am thinking about ordering from the USA.


  #24   Report Post  
Old 17-07-2003, 09:44 PM
Martin
 
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Default Adding Potassium - any thoughts

Kelvyn

Avonchem will not sell to individuals as I found out today, well they will
sell to anyone as long as they are VAT registered - which seems stupid to
me! and they have a 100 minimum order.

There is also a company called Scientific and Chemical Supplies Limited -
again no sale to those not VAT registered however, if you have a local
aquarist (like I do) they are VAT registered and they should get it for you
if you give them the details. The costs of KNO3 is 31 approx for 1 Kg which
will last 4 years in a 250L tank. K2SO4 is 26 for 1 Kg.

They are pricey but I later found a company that sold me the chemicals over
the phone using a credit card - just try one or two from a search engine and
Im sure one of them will. The main problem is getting them to deal in small
amounts - S&C Supplies Ltd will do that but only to companies that have a
proper turnover.

They are obviously trying to prevent selling to stupid people that want to
make the odd bomb or two. I mean that literally. I would be cautious about
the USA - I would assume that's the sort of traffic customs are looking for
even though it is legitimate.

Martin

"Kelvyn Shaw" wrote in message
...
I called Avonchem today to check if they would sell to private individuals
but they wouldnt. I am thinking about ordering from the USA.




  #25   Report Post  
Old 17-07-2003, 09:44 PM
Paul Davies
 
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Default Adding Potassium - any thoughts

The sulphate of potash you already have is OK. It is potassium sulphate (K2SO4). The reference to K2O is only the way it's analysed.
I've previously posted convenient sources for KNO3, but you'll also need the K2SO4, as the nitrate doesn't give you enough potassium. http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/75g.htm is a good link for the calculations.
You'll probably also need Epsom Salts (MgSO4.7H2O)for the magnesium.
All trace element mixes I'm aware of in the UK contain chelated iron. Not quite sure why you wouldn't want iron.

Paul



"Martin" wrote in message ...
Kelvyn

Avonchem will not sell to individuals as I found out today, well they will
sell to anyone as long as they are VAT registered - which seems stupid to
me! and they have a 100 minimum order.

There is also a company called Scientific and Chemical Supplies Limited -
again no sale to those not VAT registered however, if you have a local
aquarist (like I do) they are VAT registered and they should get it for you
if you give them the details. The costs of KNO3 is 31 approx for 1 Kg which
will last 4 years in a 250L tank. K2SO4 is 26 for 1 Kg.

They are pricey but I later found a company that sold me the chemicals over
the phone using a credit card - just try one or two from a search engine and
Im sure one of them will. The main problem is getting them to deal in small
amounts - S&C Supplies Ltd will do that but only to companies that have a
proper turnover.

They are obviously trying to prevent selling to stupid people that want to
make the odd bomb or two. I mean that literally. I would be cautious about
the USA - I would assume that's the sort of traffic customs are looking for
even though it is legitimate.

Martin

"Kelvyn Shaw" wrote in message
...
I called Avonchem today to check if they would sell to private individuals
but they wouldnt. I am thinking about ordering from the USA.







  #26   Report Post  
Old 17-07-2003, 09:44 PM
Martin
 
Posts: n/a
Default Adding Potassium - any thoughts

Paul,
I was under the impression that, as I have 100% flourite as the substrate,
then this already has all the iron and trace elements that I may need - it
is fractured clay. I believe the chemistry is OK for trace elements.

Martin

PS. I am actually getting laboratory grade KNO3 and K2SO4 now as I don't
(100%) trust the gardening stuff not to have some nasty trace elements in it
(like pesticides) (it won't go to waste though).


  #27   Report Post  
Old 17-07-2003, 09:44 PM
LeighMo
 
Posts: n/a
Default Adding Potassium - any thoughts

I was under the impression that, as I have 100% flourite as the substrate,
then this already has all the iron and trace elements that I may need


Flourite only provides iron. Which is what laterite provides. The other
traces must be added, whether you use Flourite or laterite. Plus, some plants
don't have much in the way of roots, and draw nutrients through their leaves.
Flourite only feeds the roots.


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/
  #28   Report Post  
Old 17-07-2003, 09:44 PM
LeighMo
 
Posts: n/a
Default Adding Potassium - any thoughts

The reason i want trace elements without Iron in them is because i have 100%
flourite gravel.


You still need to add iron.

Flourite only provides iron to plants that are root-feeders. Many aquarium
plants don't have strong root systems and absorb most of their nutrients
throught their leaves.

In addition, some plants need more iron than just Flourite can provide. I
routinely give my swords, crypts, and lotuses root tabs containing iron and
other traces. Even in my 100% Flourite tank.





Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/
  #29   Report Post  
Old 17-07-2003, 09:45 PM
Rich Conley
 
Posts: n/a
Default Adding Potassium - any thoughts

I think he still wants to dose iron, but wants to dose it less than the trace
would do.

LeighMo wrote:

The reason i want trace elements without Iron in them is because i have 100%
flourite gravel.


You still need to add iron.

Flourite only provides iron to plants that are root-feeders. Many aquarium
plants don't have strong root systems and absorb most of their nutrients
throught their leaves.

In addition, some plants need more iron than just Flourite can provide. I
routinely give my swords, crypts, and lotuses root tabs containing iron and
other traces. Even in my 100% Flourite tank.

Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/


  #30   Report Post  
Old 17-07-2003, 09:45 PM
Martin
 
Posts: n/a
Default Adding Potassium - any thoughts

Right got my chemicals...

KNO3 and K2SO4 to start with - am going to dose with KNO3 first to see what
the effects are...This will put more K in the tank than I guess I have at
the moment. If successful then in goes the K2SO4 to make up the difference
in K.

I will be aiming for about 12ppm Nitrate. The nitrate level I want will give
me 8 ppm of K in the tank.

I will also be aiming for about 20ppm K. So when I dose with K2SO4 I will be
adding a further 12ppm of K which leaves me with 15ppm of introduced SO4.

So, what's the effect that SO4 has on the plants or fish?

This is as much fun as I had last night at the local Curry house.
Martin


"Martin" wrote in message
...
Paul,
I was under the impression that, as I have 100% flourite as the substrate,
then this already has all the iron and trace elements that I may need - it
is fractured clay. I believe the chemistry is OK for trace elements.

Martin

PS. I am actually getting laboratory grade KNO3 and K2SO4 now as I don't
(100%) trust the gardening stuff not to have some nasty trace elements in

it
(like pesticides) (it won't go to waste though).






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