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Old 11-05-2003, 04:20 PM
S. Oung
 
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Default 10gal. or smaller planted tank?



LeighMo wrote:
Can it be possible to have a planted tank which is 10gals or less(2.5gal)?



Yes, it's possible, but it's difficult. See Amano's second book. It features
small planted aquariums, many under a gallon!

But it's a lot of work. You have to choose plants and fish very carefully.
You may also find that you need a lot more light per gallon than you would in a
larger tank.


[snip]


Leigh


Hang on, I'm interested, tell me more about that point: why do small
tanks need more watt/gallon? Because crowded plants shade each other more?


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Old 11-05-2003, 04:20 PM
S. Oung
 
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Default 10gal. or smaller planted tank?



LeighMo wrote:
Can it be possible to have a planted tank which is 10gals or less(2.5gal)?



Yes, it's possible, but it's difficult. See Amano's second book. It features
small planted aquariums, many under a gallon!

But it's a lot of work. You have to choose plants and fish very carefully.
You may also find that you need a lot more light per gallon than you would in a
larger tank.


[snip]
Leigh


Tell me more, I'm interested: why do smaller tanks need more
light/gallon? Because crowded plants shade each other more?

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  #18   Report Post  
Old 11-05-2003, 06:20 PM
WD
 
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Default 10gal. or smaller planted tank?


"LeighMo" wrote in message
...

I wish you would consider setting up a larger tank now. If she succeeds

in
keeping those goldfish alive in a tank that small for long, she'll be

doing
better than many grown-up goldfish experts.


Sigh, you're right, of course...suggestion noted for careful consideration

billy


  #19   Report Post  
Old 11-05-2003, 09:08 PM
LeighMo
 
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Default 10gal. or smaller planted tank?

Hang on, I'm interested, tell me more about that point: why do small
tanks need more watt/gallon? Because crowded plants shade each other more?


No. I'm not sure exactly why this is the case. It's something that has become
evident empirically: the watts per gallon rule breaks down with very small or
very large tanks.

It probably is partly due to flaws in the rule of the thumb, as well as the
nature of flourescent lights.

The longer a flourescent bulb is, the more efficient it is. So a 4' bulb
throws out more light per watt than a shorter bulb does.

And the rule of thumb -- watts per gallon -- doesn't take into account the fact
that height is the most important dimension. As tanks get bigger, they don't
get much higher. Once you're over 100 gallons, the tanks only get longer, not
higher.

See this article for more info:

http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Tech/Lighting/

Basically, it found that for tanks under five gallons, 8 watts per gallon may
not be enough, while for tanks over 100 gallons, 2 watts per gallon is too
much.


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/
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Old 12-05-2003, 07:46 AM
Vincent
 
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Default 10gal. or smaller planted tank?

Isn't all fish enthusiast bonkers, we can go all out to try EVERYTHING...



tose (LeighMo) wrote in message ...
200 litres! For two goldfish?! Excuse me but are you bonkers?


LOL. Quite possibly, but if I am, so are a lot of goldfish experts.

Check out this article:

http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish/li...ction=&RecordN
o=3769



Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/



  #21   Report Post  
Old 12-05-2003, 06:44 PM
Rich Conley
 
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Default 10gal. or smaller planted tank?



Yes. Aragonite is for sal****er tanks. Washing won't help, because it's the
sand itself that dissolves, making the water alkaline. Use silica sand
instead.


Or us african Cichlid keepers....


I use crushed coral and silica in my planted tank..its great..I think the coral
dissolving helps add trace elements for the plants...

Rich

  #22   Report Post  
Old 12-05-2003, 06:44 PM
Rich Conley
 
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Default 10gal. or smaller planted tank?

10 gallon tanks arent too bad to light though...because theyre so shallow... 11"
deep, minus 2 inches of gravel....30 watts of fluoro does me fine.

"S. Oung" wrote:

LeighMo wrote:
Can it be possible to have a planted tank which is 10gals or less(2.5gal)?



Yes, it's possible, but it's difficult. See Amano's second book. It features
small planted aquariums, many under a gallon!

But it's a lot of work. You have to choose plants and fish very carefully.
You may also find that you need a lot more light per gallon than you would in a
larger tank.


[snip]
Leigh


Tell me more, I'm interested: why do smaller tanks need more
light/gallon? Because crowded plants shade each other more?

remove "deathtospam." to deactivate spam trap


  #23   Report Post  
Old 12-05-2003, 11:32 PM
LeighMo
 
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Default 10gal. or smaller planted tank?

I use crushed coral and silica in my planted tank..its great..I think the
coral
dissolving helps add trace elements for the plants...


Using some aragonite can be helpful if you have very soft water, or want to
keep Rift Lake cichlids. But most people find using 100% coral sand or
aragonite in a freshwater tank does crazy things to the pH. Especially in a
small tank. I really don't recommend it for beginners.



Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/
  #24   Report Post  
Old 13-05-2003, 04:20 AM
Duncan A. McRae
 
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Default 10gal. or smaller planted tank?

"WD" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
I have a couple larger tanks in the garage that could be set up in a

matter
of hours. If she keeps them alive long enough for them to outgrow the

five,
I'll get her a big'un


I feel just awful for your car, forced to live out in the driveway while
your unused tanks take up space in your garage. If you're in the Toronto
area, let me do your car a favour, and take those tanks for you, so they're
out of the garage. You don't even have to say "thank you" when I'm done...


Cheers;
Duncan


  #25   Report Post  
Old 13-05-2003, 03:56 PM
Ed
 
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Default 10gal. or smaller planted tank?

It sure is possible. Easier than larger tanks too! IMO. You can see
on my web site i-aquaria.com I have two small tanks setup as planted
aquaria. One is an Eclipse 3 and the other is a 10 gallon. Both grow
plants very well and both are low light tanks. But I also maintain
numerous old glodfish bowls with tons of plants in them and they get
nothing but sunlight....

The trick is patience.... You have to experiment and be patient. You
will not have an Amano looking tank first time out (If you do you're
very lucky).

I used sand in my Eclipse and a Flourite/gravel mix in my ten.... So
experiment and see what works best for you.

Regards,

Ed @
i-aquaria dot com



On Sat, 10 May 2003 03:42:38 GMT, JuanMa wrote:

Greetings.

Can it be possible to have a planted tank which is 10gals or less(2.5gal)?

What kind of lighting and chemicals should I use to keep the plants healthy
and thriving?

Can aragonite sand be used in such a tank(how much)? What can I use to keep
the plants in their place? What about compatible fish for the planted tank?

The 2.5gal tank I haven't bought it yet. I have a 10gal, but no lighting yet.
What kind of light should I use if I go with the 2.5gal? Can one of those
daylight fluorescent bulbs fit in the 2.5gal hood? Would it produce enough
light for the plants, or should I go DIY PC?

If I don't find any ideal type of sand, what could be the alternatives?

What plants do you recommend that I should start with?

I was thinking for livestock if I go with the 2.5gal. some fancy guppies or
neon tetras or two angels. If I go with the 10gal. the livestock will be a
little more varied, but not too much.

I was told that aragonite sand can make the water too alkaline? will it make
it so, even if I wash the sand?

TIA




  #26   Report Post  
Old 13-05-2003, 04:08 PM
Ed
 
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Default 10gal. or smaller planted tank?

Leigh wrote:

"No. I'm not sure exactly why this is the case. It's something that
has become evident empirically: the watts per gallon rule breaks down
with very small or very large tanks. "

While I don't have sound scientific proof.... I don't think that is
not necessarily true. I have maintained many high light tanks in the
past and have switched over to lower light tanks. I pretty much
lowered my wattage by a 1/3 to 1/2 on all my tanks. I was at almost 4
watts per on all of my tanks.... then my bulbs started going out one
at a time and I just let them be. I found that once the plants
reacclimated to to lower light situation that they grew just fine....
and I had much less maintenance, had to add fewer nutrients and my
electric bill dropped dramatically!

Regards,

Ed @
i-aquaria dot com



On 11 May 2003 19:07:49 GMT, tose (LeighMo) wrote:

No. I'm not sure exactly why this is the case. It's something that has become
evident empirically: the watts per gallon rule breaks down with very small or
very large tanks.


  #27   Report Post  
Old 13-05-2003, 06:56 PM
Rich Conley
 
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Default 10gal. or smaller planted tank?

I tend to find that it balaces my tank out at about 8 pH...theres no maintenance
of it..its rock solid...you dont have to worry about it fluctuating.

LeighMo wrote:

I use crushed coral and silica in my planted tank..its great..I think the
coral
dissolving helps add trace elements for the plants...


Using some aragonite can be helpful if you have very soft water, or want to
keep Rift Lake cichlids. But most people find using 100% coral sand or
aragonite in a freshwater tank does crazy things to the pH. Especially in a
small tank. I really don't recommend it for beginners.

Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/


  #28   Report Post  
Old 13-05-2003, 09:20 PM
Sherry Michael Weller
 
Posts: n/a
Default 10gal. or smaller planted tank?


Hello!

I've found a lot of things people say about smaller tanks being
'difficult' a myth. I have two six gallon planted tanks. Nano and
microtanks are fun. www.aquabotanic.com has a Wet Thumbs micro tank
planted bulletin board you may be interested in. There are several 2.5
planted tanks.


Can it be possible to have a planted tank which is 10gals or less(2.5gal)?


Of course! IMO, I have found them to be rewarding and not all that hard.
I've traded my large tanks for small ones over the years.
Here is one of mine: http://www.psych.upenn.edu/~sherrym/fish.html

What kind of lighting and chemicals should I use to keep the plants healthy
and thriving?


It all depends on the kind of plants and your water conditions. Do you
want high light or a low light tank? Study up and see what plants
interest you. Smaller tanks usually need less light per gallon usually
because they are more shallow.

What about compatible fish for the planted tank?


Most killifish are excellent. I would avoid livebearers due to sudden
population increases. I've used lemon tetras, mini cories and cherry
barbs with great success. Angels would not work. You can also just have
some amano or glass shrimp.

If I don't find any ideal type of sand, what could be the alternatives?


I use pure Flourite.

What plants do you recommend that I should start with?


Depends on how much light you can get. Hard to kills like crypts,
anubias, java ferns and
inexpensive stem plants like hygro and coonstail. Start with a LOT of
plants to out compete algae. The only problem will be selecting small
plants, but it can be done!
  #29   Report Post  
Old 13-05-2003, 09:32 PM
Sherry Michael Weller
 
Posts: n/a
Default 10gal. or smaller planted tank?


Yes, it's possible, but it's difficult. See Amano's second book. It features
small planted aquariums, many under a gallon!


Why is it difficult? Mine are easy.

But it's a lot of work. You have to choose plants and fish very carefully.


You also need to do so in a large tank.

You may also find that you need a lot more light per gallon than you would in a
larger tank.


I'm sorry, I don't agree. Unless you have a very tall 2.5 gallon tank,
you need less light in shallow aquaria. I grow low light plants and
medium light stem plants with 8 watts to 6 gallons.

Your choices will be very limited with such a small tank. Amano uses rasboras
and neon tetras in his smallest tanks. Amano shrimp and otocinclus for algae
control. But I'd be really hesitant to keep fish in such a small tank.


A pair of killies would be great in a 2.5 gallon as well as a few of the
above fish mentioned.

And if you are new, I really, really recommend you go with the 10 gallon tank.
The larger the tank, the easier it is to maintain. A small tank is very
unforgiving of mistakes.


I have found that mini tanks are just as 'forgiving' as my old 75 and 45
gallon tanks. I also do fun things to mess with my water chemistry with
peated DI water, etc. Many people inject c02 in 2.5 gallons! I simply
have not seen any proof that smaller tanks that are maintained well and
with intelligence are any harder then a big tank. Frankly I find them
less demanding.
  #30   Report Post  
Old 13-05-2003, 11:44 PM
LeighMo
 
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Default 10gal. or smaller planted tank?

was at almost 4
watts per on all of my tanks.... then my bulbs started going out one
at a time and I just let them be. I found that once the plants
reacclimated to to lower light situation that they grew just fine....


I'm not saying that you can't have low-light planted tanks. I'm just saying
that if you do want a high-light, high-tech tank, you'll need more watts per
gallon in a small tank (under 5 gallons) than in a large one.


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/


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