|
No PH change with DIY CO2
i use a rena but on a much smaller tank, 3G.
are the bubbles a fine stream coming from the side of the rena or from the top or bottom gaskets as leaks? make sure the rena is at the bottom of the tank for maximum effect. also you could try a 2" since the 4" just puts the point of potential emission higher in the tank with no benefit. i actually cut mine down to under an inch and reassembled it. good luck jtm -- Remove NOSPAM for email replies "Rick" wrote in message ... I set up 2 liter bottle of DIY CO2 about 10 days ago, mixed up 2 cups of sugar, 1/4 tsp of yeast and a pinch of baking soda and filled the bottle about 3/4 full. I initially had this hooked into a powerhead. It was dispensing as I could see the puffs of gas coming out of the output. I recently bought some Rena Micro bubblers to use rather than the power head and now have the bottle with a fresh mix (last night) hooked into a 4" bubbler in a 20g planted tank. My Ph in the tank remains at about 7.6. I can see bubbles coming out of the bubbler but should the PH not change ?. Is the tank not getting enough CO2, one would think in a 20g that one two liter bottle would be enough, yes, no?? Thx. Rick |
No PH change with DIY CO2
i use a rena but on a much smaller tank, 3G.
are the bubbles a fine stream coming from the side of the rena or from the top or bottom gaskets as leaks? make sure the rena is at the bottom of the tank for maximum effect. also you could try a 2" since the 4" just puts the point of potential emission higher in the tank with no benefit. i actually cut mine down to under an inch and reassembled it. good luck jtm -- Remove NOSPAM for email replies "Rick" wrote in message ... I set up 2 liter bottle of DIY CO2 about 10 days ago, mixed up 2 cups of sugar, 1/4 tsp of yeast and a pinch of baking soda and filled the bottle about 3/4 full. I initially had this hooked into a powerhead. It was dispensing as I could see the puffs of gas coming out of the output. I recently bought some Rena Micro bubblers to use rather than the power head and now have the bottle with a fresh mix (last night) hooked into a 4" bubbler in a 20g planted tank. My Ph in the tank remains at about 7.6. I can see bubbles coming out of the bubbler but should the PH not change ?. Is the tank not getting enough CO2, one would think in a 20g that one two liter bottle would be enough, yes, no?? Thx. Rick |
No PH change with DIY CO2
I set up 2 liter bottle of DIY CO2 about 10 days ago, mixed up 2 cups of
sugar, 1/4 tsp of yeast and a pinch of baking soda and filled the bottle about 3/4 full. I initially had this hooked into a powerhead. It was dispensing as I could see the puffs of gas coming out of the output. I recently bought some Rena Micro bubblers to use rather than the power head and now have the bottle with a fresh mix (last night) hooked into a 4" bubbler in a 20g planted tank. My Ph in the tank remains at about 7.6. I can see bubbles coming out of the bubbler but should the PH not change ?. Is the tank not getting enough CO2, one would think in a 20g that one two liter bottle would be enough, yes, no?? Thx. Rick |
No PH change with DIY CO2
Dude, your pH will drop in time, some people say it goes down quite a bit,
or, respectively goes up quite a bit if you remove the co2... I have never experienced this happening quickly... Basically i noticed a total of a .4 ph drop in about 2 months time. (my ph is currently at 6.9-7.0)... Give it time and ph will drop (I also use the powerhead method to ditribute the co2) -Jason "Rick" wrote in message ... I set up 2 liter bottle of DIY CO2 about 10 days ago, mixed up 2 cups of sugar, 1/4 tsp of yeast and a pinch of baking soda and filled the bottle about 3/4 full. I initially had this hooked into a powerhead. It was dispensing as I could see the puffs of gas coming out of the output. I recently bought some Rena Micro bubblers to use rather than the power head and now have the bottle with a fresh mix (last night) hooked into a 4" bubbler in a 20g planted tank. My Ph in the tank remains at about 7.6. I can see bubbles coming out of the bubbler but should the PH not change ?. Is the tank not getting enough CO2, one would think in a 20g that one two liter bottle would be enough, yes, no?? Thx. Rick |
No PH change with DIY CO2
Dude, your pH will drop in time, some people say it goes down quite a bit,
or, respectively goes up quite a bit if you remove the co2... I have never experienced this happening quickly... Basically i noticed a total of a .4 ph drop in about 2 months time. (my ph is currently at 6.9-7.0)... Give it time and ph will drop (I also use the powerhead method to ditribute the co2) -Jason "Rick" wrote in message ... I set up 2 liter bottle of DIY CO2 about 10 days ago, mixed up 2 cups of sugar, 1/4 tsp of yeast and a pinch of baking soda and filled the bottle about 3/4 full. I initially had this hooked into a powerhead. It was dispensing as I could see the puffs of gas coming out of the output. I recently bought some Rena Micro bubblers to use rather than the power head and now have the bottle with a fresh mix (last night) hooked into a 4" bubbler in a 20g planted tank. My Ph in the tank remains at about 7.6. I can see bubbles coming out of the bubbler but should the PH not change ?. Is the tank not getting enough CO2, one would think in a 20g that one two liter bottle would be enough, yes, no?? Thx. Rick |
No PH change with DIY CO2
"Rick" wrote in message ... I set up 2 liter bottle of DIY CO2 about 10 days ago, mixed up 2 cups of sugar, 1/4 tsp of yeast and a pinch of baking soda and filled the bottle about 3/4 full. I initially had this hooked into a powerhead. It was dispensing as I could see the puffs of gas coming out of the output. I recently bought some Rena Micro bubblers to use rather than the power head and now have the bottle with a fresh mix (last night) hooked into a 4" bubbler in a 20g planted tank. My Ph in the tank remains at about 7.6. I can see bubbles coming out of the bubbler but should the PH not change ?. Is the tank not getting enough CO2, one would think in a 20g that one two liter bottle would be enough, yes, no?? Thx. Rick The amount the pH will change depends on the kH of the water in the tank. The more dissolved carbonates, the less the pH will change. What is your kH? Jamie ~ |
No PH change with DIY CO2
"Rick" wrote in message ... I set up 2 liter bottle of DIY CO2 about 10 days ago, mixed up 2 cups of sugar, 1/4 tsp of yeast and a pinch of baking soda and filled the bottle about 3/4 full. I initially had this hooked into a powerhead. It was dispensing as I could see the puffs of gas coming out of the output. I recently bought some Rena Micro bubblers to use rather than the power head and now have the bottle with a fresh mix (last night) hooked into a 4" bubbler in a 20g planted tank. My Ph in the tank remains at about 7.6. I can see bubbles coming out of the bubbler but should the PH not change ?. Is the tank not getting enough CO2, one would think in a 20g that one two liter bottle would be enough, yes, no?? Thx. Rick The amount the pH will change depends on the kH of the water in the tank. The more dissolved carbonates, the less the pH will change. What is your kH? Jamie ~ |
No PH change with DIY CO2
"Jamie D" wrote in message news:VX91a.30988$2H6.684@sccrnsc04... "Rick" wrote in message ... I set up 2 liter bottle of DIY CO2 about 10 days ago, mixed up 2 cups of sugar, 1/4 tsp of yeast and a pinch of baking soda and filled the bottle about 3/4 full. I initially had this hooked into a powerhead. It was dispensing as I could see the puffs of gas coming out of the output. I recently bought some Rena Micro bubblers to use rather than the power head and now have the bottle with a fresh mix (last night) hooked into a 4" bubbler in a 20g planted tank. My Ph in the tank remains at about 7.6. I can see bubbles coming out of the bubbler but should the PH not change ?. Is the tank not getting enough CO2, one would think in a 20g that one two liter bottle would be enough, yes, no?? Thx. Rick The amount the pH will change depends on the kH of the water in the tank. The more dissolved carbonates, the less the pH will change. What is your kH? Jamie ~ 50 PPM Rick |
No PH change with DIY CO2
"Jamie D" wrote in message news:VX91a.30988$2H6.684@sccrnsc04... "Rick" wrote in message ... I set up 2 liter bottle of DIY CO2 about 10 days ago, mixed up 2 cups of sugar, 1/4 tsp of yeast and a pinch of baking soda and filled the bottle about 3/4 full. I initially had this hooked into a powerhead. It was dispensing as I could see the puffs of gas coming out of the output. I recently bought some Rena Micro bubblers to use rather than the power head and now have the bottle with a fresh mix (last night) hooked into a 4" bubbler in a 20g planted tank. My Ph in the tank remains at about 7.6. I can see bubbles coming out of the bubbler but should the PH not change ?. Is the tank not getting enough CO2, one would think in a 20g that one two liter bottle would be enough, yes, no?? Thx. Rick The amount the pH will change depends on the kH of the water in the tank. The more dissolved carbonates, the less the pH will change. What is your kH? Jamie ~ 50 PPM Rick |
No PH change with DIY CO2
"Rick" wrote in message ... "Jamie D" wrote in message news:VX91a.30988$2H6.684@sccrnsc04... "Rick" wrote in message ... I set up 2 liter bottle of DIY CO2 about 10 days ago, mixed up 2 cups of sugar, 1/4 tsp of yeast and a pinch of baking soda and filled the bottle about 3/4 full. I initially had this hooked into a powerhead. It was dispensing as I could see the puffs of gas coming out of the output. I recently bought some Rena Micro bubblers to use rather than the power head and now have the bottle with a fresh mix (last night) hooked into a 4" bubbler in a 20g planted tank. My Ph in the tank remains at about 7.6. I can see bubbles coming out of the bubbler but should the PH not change ?. Is the tank not getting enough CO2, one would think in a 20g that one two liter bottle would be enough, yes, no?? Thx. Rick The amount the pH will change depends on the kH of the water in the tank. The more dissolved carbonates, the less the pH will change. What is your kH? Jamie ~ 50 PPM Rick 50 ppm is around 2.8dKh. At a pH of 7.6 that's around 2 ppm of CO2, which is low even for a non-CO2 injected tank. With DIY I would expect at least 18 ppm of CO2, which would give you a pH of around 6.6. Either the CO2 isn't getting into the tank for some reason, or there is something wrong with your test kits. I personally think 1/4tsp yeast is not enough, I would go with half to 1 tsp - but even so, you should see at least some drop in pH with your set-up as described. My vote is for inaccurate test kits. Jamie ~ |
No PH change with DIY CO2
"Rick" wrote in message ... "Jamie D" wrote in message news:VX91a.30988$2H6.684@sccrnsc04... "Rick" wrote in message ... I set up 2 liter bottle of DIY CO2 about 10 days ago, mixed up 2 cups of sugar, 1/4 tsp of yeast and a pinch of baking soda and filled the bottle about 3/4 full. I initially had this hooked into a powerhead. It was dispensing as I could see the puffs of gas coming out of the output. I recently bought some Rena Micro bubblers to use rather than the power head and now have the bottle with a fresh mix (last night) hooked into a 4" bubbler in a 20g planted tank. My Ph in the tank remains at about 7.6. I can see bubbles coming out of the bubbler but should the PH not change ?. Is the tank not getting enough CO2, one would think in a 20g that one two liter bottle would be enough, yes, no?? Thx. Rick The amount the pH will change depends on the kH of the water in the tank. The more dissolved carbonates, the less the pH will change. What is your kH? Jamie ~ 50 PPM Rick 50 ppm is around 2.8dKh. At a pH of 7.6 that's around 2 ppm of CO2, which is low even for a non-CO2 injected tank. With DIY I would expect at least 18 ppm of CO2, which would give you a pH of around 6.6. Either the CO2 isn't getting into the tank for some reason, or there is something wrong with your test kits. I personally think 1/4tsp yeast is not enough, I would go with half to 1 tsp - but even so, you should see at least some drop in pH with your set-up as described. My vote is for inaccurate test kits. Jamie ~ |
No PH change with DIY CO2
"Jamie D" wrote in message news:RKd1a.37308$be.24572@rwcrnsc53... "Rick" wrote in message ... 50 PPM Rick 50 ppm is around 2.8dKh. At a pH of 7.6 that's around 2 ppm of CO2, which is low even for a non-CO2 injected tank. With DIY I would expect at least 18 ppm of CO2, which would give you a pH of around 6.6. Either the CO2 isn't getting into the tank for some reason, or there is something wrong with your test kits. I personally think 1/4tsp yeast is not enough, I would go with half to 1 tsp - but even so, you should see at least some drop in pH with your set-up as described. My vote is for inaccurate test kits. Jamie ~ I use the same test kit on my Mbuna tank where I buffer the water with baking soda and a bit of salt and it tests normally between 140 to 170 . I'm getting a steady stream of fine bubbles from the micro bubbler so it appears that co2 is definitely being dispensed, so I;m not sure what is going on. Rick |
No PH change with DIY CO2
"Jamie D" wrote in message news:RKd1a.37308$be.24572@rwcrnsc53... "Rick" wrote in message ... 50 PPM Rick 50 ppm is around 2.8dKh. At a pH of 7.6 that's around 2 ppm of CO2, which is low even for a non-CO2 injected tank. With DIY I would expect at least 18 ppm of CO2, which would give you a pH of around 6.6. Either the CO2 isn't getting into the tank for some reason, or there is something wrong with your test kits. I personally think 1/4tsp yeast is not enough, I would go with half to 1 tsp - but even so, you should see at least some drop in pH with your set-up as described. My vote is for inaccurate test kits. Jamie ~ I use the same test kit on my Mbuna tank where I buffer the water with baking soda and a bit of salt and it tests normally between 140 to 170 . I'm getting a steady stream of fine bubbles from the micro bubbler so it appears that co2 is definitely being dispensed, so I;m not sure what is going on. Rick |
No PH change with DIY CO2
"Rick" wrote in message ... "Jamie D" wrote in message news:RKd1a.37308$be.24572@rwcrnsc53... "Rick" wrote in message ... 50 PPM Rick 50 ppm is around 2.8dKh. At a pH of 7.6 that's around 2 ppm of CO2, which is low even for a non-CO2 injected tank. With DIY I would expect at least 18 ppm of CO2, which would give you a pH of around 6.6. Either the CO2 isn't getting into the tank for some reason, or there is something wrong with your test kits. I personally think 1/4tsp yeast is not enough, I would go with half to 1 tsp - but even so, you should see at least some drop in pH with your set-up as described. My vote is for inaccurate test kits. Jamie ~ I use the same test kit on my Mbuna tank where I buffer the water with baking soda and a bit of salt and it tests normally between 140 to 170 . I'm getting a steady stream of fine bubbles from the micro bubbler so it appears that co2 is definitely being dispensed, so I;m not sure what is going on. Rick Wish I could be more help. I use DIY CO2 in a 20 gallon and everything works just fine - only difference for me is I have the bubbles feed straight into the intake of my HOB filter. My CO2 level ranges between 18 - 28 ppm. Jamie ~ |
No PH change with DIY CO2
"Rick" wrote in message ... "Jamie D" wrote in message news:RKd1a.37308$be.24572@rwcrnsc53... "Rick" wrote in message ... 50 PPM Rick 50 ppm is around 2.8dKh. At a pH of 7.6 that's around 2 ppm of CO2, which is low even for a non-CO2 injected tank. With DIY I would expect at least 18 ppm of CO2, which would give you a pH of around 6.6. Either the CO2 isn't getting into the tank for some reason, or there is something wrong with your test kits. I personally think 1/4tsp yeast is not enough, I would go with half to 1 tsp - but even so, you should see at least some drop in pH with your set-up as described. My vote is for inaccurate test kits. Jamie ~ I use the same test kit on my Mbuna tank where I buffer the water with baking soda and a bit of salt and it tests normally between 140 to 170 . I'm getting a steady stream of fine bubbles from the micro bubbler so it appears that co2 is definitely being dispensed, so I;m not sure what is going on. Rick Wish I could be more help. I use DIY CO2 in a 20 gallon and everything works just fine - only difference for me is I have the bubbles feed straight into the intake of my HOB filter. My CO2 level ranges between 18 - 28 ppm. Jamie ~ |
No PH change with DIY CO2
"Rick" wrote in message
... I set up 2 liter bottle of DIY CO2 about 10 days ago, mixed up 2 cups of sugar, 1/4 tsp of yeast and a pinch of baking soda and filled the bottle about 3/4 full. I initially had this hooked into a powerhead. It was dispensing as I could see the puffs of gas coming out of the output. I recently bought some Rena Micro bubblers to use rather than the power head and now have the bottle with a fresh mix (last night) hooked into a 4" bubbler in a 20g planted tank. My Ph in the tank remains at about 7.6. I can see bubbles coming out of the bubbler but should the PH not change ?. Is the tank not getting enough CO2, one would think in a 20g that one two liter bottle would be enough, yes, no?? If the pH is not changing, that means there's no extra CO2 being dissolved from your generator. And it's obvious why. You're using an airstone to diffuse your CO2 gas. DIY CO2 cannot be diffused successfully because the pressure needed to run an adequate diffuser must be much higher than the yeast generator can produce. A powerhead would work much better in your case because it would act as a reactor. Or you can inject it directly into your power or canister filter. That's what most people do, I believe. Your CO2 level should increase overnight as much as it will ever increase. __ Alex |
No PH change with DIY CO2
"Rick" wrote in message
... I set up 2 liter bottle of DIY CO2 about 10 days ago, mixed up 2 cups of sugar, 1/4 tsp of yeast and a pinch of baking soda and filled the bottle about 3/4 full. I initially had this hooked into a powerhead. It was dispensing as I could see the puffs of gas coming out of the output. I recently bought some Rena Micro bubblers to use rather than the power head and now have the bottle with a fresh mix (last night) hooked into a 4" bubbler in a 20g planted tank. My Ph in the tank remains at about 7.6. I can see bubbles coming out of the bubbler but should the PH not change ?. Is the tank not getting enough CO2, one would think in a 20g that one two liter bottle would be enough, yes, no?? If the pH is not changing, that means there's no extra CO2 being dissolved from your generator. And it's obvious why. You're using an airstone to diffuse your CO2 gas. DIY CO2 cannot be diffused successfully because the pressure needed to run an adequate diffuser must be much higher than the yeast generator can produce. A powerhead would work much better in your case because it would act as a reactor. Or you can inject it directly into your power or canister filter. That's what most people do, I believe. Your CO2 level should increase overnight as much as it will ever increase. __ Alex |
No PH change with DIY CO2
"Alex R" wrote in message news:BKz1a.47589$iG3.6416@sccrnsc02... "Jamie D" wrote in message news:VX91a.30988$2H6.684@sccrnsc04... The amount the pH will change depends on the kH of the water in the tank. The more dissolved carbonates, the less the pH will change. What is your kH? Jamie That's absolutely NOT true. The amount the pH will drop is independent of the KH. The KH only determines the starting and ending values of the pH. But the difference will be the same, regardless of the KH. If you're starting with a pH of 7.6, then you should aim for a pH of 6.8-6.9. __ Alex pcalex (at) hotpop.com Oops .. sorry, you're absolutely right. I stand corrected. Brain freeze perhaps. Jamie ~ |
No PH change with DIY CO2
"Alex R" wrote in message news:BKz1a.47589$iG3.6416@sccrnsc02... "Jamie D" wrote in message news:VX91a.30988$2H6.684@sccrnsc04... The amount the pH will change depends on the kH of the water in the tank. The more dissolved carbonates, the less the pH will change. What is your kH? Jamie That's absolutely NOT true. The amount the pH will drop is independent of the KH. The KH only determines the starting and ending values of the pH. But the difference will be the same, regardless of the KH. If you're starting with a pH of 7.6, then you should aim for a pH of 6.8-6.9. __ Alex pcalex (at) hotpop.com Oops .. sorry, you're absolutely right. I stand corrected. Brain freeze perhaps. Jamie ~ |
No PH change with DIY CO2
I know I'm getting into this late. But, this thread has caught my attention.
Alex R wrote: If the pH is not changing, that means there's no extra CO2 being dissolved from your generator. Not necessarily true. My first tank that I injected DIY CO2 was a little 10 gallon moderately planted tank. This tank never did register any pH drop for the first few weeks I was adding CO2. BUT.....from the next day and ever afterwards my plants were pearling like mad as they had never done before. That would seem to mean that the plants were taking in all of the added CO2 that was being injected. Enough such that there was never any excess CO2 to cause the pH to drop. Judge by the plants response as well as the pH to determine if the CO2 is getting into the water. And it's obvious why. You're using an airstone to diffuse your CO2 gas. DIY CO2 cannot be diffused successfully because the pressure needed to run an adequate diffuser must be much higher than the yeast generator can produce. Different stones perform differently. I've run DIY CO2 into several different stones and have others on hand that I haven't tried yet. I have yet to find a stone that has so much resistance that the CO2 couldn't make its way out. Some stones will put your CO2 hardware to the test as far as being leak-proof, though. Seems the better stones, read that stones that make very fine bubbles, need more pressure and a solid leak-proof setup. The wood 'air-stone' is my favorite at the moment. A powerhead would work much better in your case because it would act as a reactor. Or you can inject it directly into your power or canister filter. That's what most people do, I believe. Your CO2 level should increase overnight as much as it will ever increase. Personally, I'm going into the canister intake. As you say, it doesn't take long at all to see what the CO2 level is going to be. One thing I see all the time about adding CO2 and extra lighting that just makes me nuts. ......or would that be more nuts? It seems most people do this bass akwards. Everyone wants to add extra lights and then get around to adding the CO2 'if I need it'. Seems to me, there would be way less grief if the CO2 were added first, THEN add the extra lighting. There would probably be way less complaining about algae. My first tank with 1 wpg and too much direct sunlight contained tons of algae when I started adding the CO2. The algae just went away of its own accord. I've never had much algae (just a couple of spots on the glass at the filter outlet) in my second tank with the CO2 and about 1.5 wpg and the plants grow very well. -- Scott Lewis |
No PH change with DIY CO2
I know I'm getting into this late. But, this thread has caught my attention.
Alex R wrote: If the pH is not changing, that means there's no extra CO2 being dissolved from your generator. Not necessarily true. My first tank that I injected DIY CO2 was a little 10 gallon moderately planted tank. This tank never did register any pH drop for the first few weeks I was adding CO2. BUT.....from the next day and ever afterwards my plants were pearling like mad as they had never done before. That would seem to mean that the plants were taking in all of the added CO2 that was being injected. Enough such that there was never any excess CO2 to cause the pH to drop. Judge by the plants response as well as the pH to determine if the CO2 is getting into the water. And it's obvious why. You're using an airstone to diffuse your CO2 gas. DIY CO2 cannot be diffused successfully because the pressure needed to run an adequate diffuser must be much higher than the yeast generator can produce. Different stones perform differently. I've run DIY CO2 into several different stones and have others on hand that I haven't tried yet. I have yet to find a stone that has so much resistance that the CO2 couldn't make its way out. Some stones will put your CO2 hardware to the test as far as being leak-proof, though. Seems the better stones, read that stones that make very fine bubbles, need more pressure and a solid leak-proof setup. The wood 'air-stone' is my favorite at the moment. A powerhead would work much better in your case because it would act as a reactor. Or you can inject it directly into your power or canister filter. That's what most people do, I believe. Your CO2 level should increase overnight as much as it will ever increase. Personally, I'm going into the canister intake. As you say, it doesn't take long at all to see what the CO2 level is going to be. One thing I see all the time about adding CO2 and extra lighting that just makes me nuts. ......or would that be more nuts? It seems most people do this bass akwards. Everyone wants to add extra lights and then get around to adding the CO2 'if I need it'. Seems to me, there would be way less grief if the CO2 were added first, THEN add the extra lighting. There would probably be way less complaining about algae. My first tank with 1 wpg and too much direct sunlight contained tons of algae when I started adding the CO2. The algae just went away of its own accord. I've never had much algae (just a couple of spots on the glass at the filter outlet) in my second tank with the CO2 and about 1.5 wpg and the plants grow very well. -- Scott Lewis |
No PH change with DIY CO2
The Ph will not drop if your kh is high (or less).
Also, don't put too much light with diy co2 because you will probably become co2 limited. It happened to me and the plants suffered from it until i added a co2 bottle. |
No PH change with DIY CO2
The Ph will not drop if your kh is high (or less).
Also, don't put too much light with diy co2 because you will probably become co2 limited. It happened to me and the plants suffered from it until i added a co2 bottle. |
No PH change with DIY CO2
Andre Malenfant wrote:
The Ph will not drop if your kh is high (or less). Andre, Perhaps we have a misunderstanding (or a missing word?), but the point above appears to be wrong. Injecting CO2 will drop the pH no matter what the KH. You can read all about it he http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm |
No PH change with DIY CO2
Andre Malenfant wrote:
The Ph will not drop if your kh is high (or less). Andre, Perhaps we have a misunderstanding (or a missing word?), but the point above appears to be wrong. Injecting CO2 will drop the pH no matter what the KH. You can read all about it he http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm |
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