Hello all

Been watching this NG for a few days now and it looks like
there is a world of knowledge here. Anyway my situation. Recently
getting back into the Hobby after a 20 plus year absence. Currently
have 2 55 U.S.G. tanks set up and a 29 USG as my hospital tank. All
are up and cycled doing good.

The primary 55 Gal in my living room I have lightly populated
with some plants. 2 Amazon Swords. 3 Cardamine Lyrata's and a few
short grasses. Fish population/loading is close to maximum. I want
to add more plants and I need to upgrade from the standard LFS
supplied lighting system. Right now I have less than 50 watts for the
whole tank. There is substantial non-direct sun light during the day
but wish to do better to have some flexability and ensure I give the
plants a chance to flourish. This will always be primarily a fish
tank not plant dedicated.

I have purchased a split glass cover and am prepared to build
a hood from scratch to meet the needs of the lighting system. What I
am looking for is recommendations for a maintenance free Long term
lighting system that will be both natural in appearance for the fish
veiwing and healthy for the plants. Money while always a concern is
secondary to getting it right the first time. Heat generation for
summer months is a concern. Tank Dimentions are 21"H x 12 wide x 48
long. I am a capable electrician and carpenter so manufacturing /
assembly are a possibility.

No I have not finished reading the info available at the Krib
but will do so this week as part of my decision process.

Thanks a bunch for any info you care to share!

Steve
aka "WhiskerFish"

"WhiskerFish" wrote in message
news
I have purchased a split glass cover and am prepared to build
a hood from scratch to meet the needs of the lighting system. What I
am looking for is recommendations for a maintenance free Long term
lighting system that will be both natural in appearance for the fish
veiwing and healthy for the plants. Money while always a concern is
secondary to getting it right the first time. Heat generation for
summer months is a concern. Tank Dimentions are 21"H x 12 wide x 48
long. I am a capable electrician and carpenter so manufacturing /
assembly are a possibility.

No I have not finished reading the info available at the Krib
but will do so this week as part of my decision process.

Thanks a bunch for any info you care to share!

I wouldn't profess to be an expert on this but, as a general rule you need
roughly 2-3W per gallon if you can manage it. That would mean you are
looking for somewhere around 120W - which would be 3 fluorescent tubes. You
could also look at the "T5" systems which are supposed to be a lot brighter
& give generally more "bang for your buck".

Other options would be Metal Halides but these don't fit in a hood but are
suspended over the tank.

Key thing to remember is that everything must be in balance - you can have
too much light - if you do you'll get Algae. The determining factor here is
the CO2 level in the tank - if you don't have CO2 then you probably don't
want more than 120W - I have a similar size tank with only 80W & no CO2 & a
variety of plants grow very well. Plants need light, CO2 & Nutrients to
grow - skimp on any one of these and things will go awry. Obviously there
are some plants that will grow better in low light than others so you need
to select plants according to your lighting.

There are a vast variety of tubes on the market these days that give
different light spectrums some of which are more suited to plants than
others. There are also tubes which will enhance the colours of your fish.

Also make sure you have your lights on for a constant amount of time every
day - 12 hours is a rough guide. Easy way to manage this is with a timer.
You can vary this depending on how well your plants (or your Algae!) is
doing - you can go down to 10 or up to say 14 hours depending on what works.

Other things to consider when trying to grow plants are the substrate and
the filtration. Under gravel filters are generally not recommended although
some people do seem to manage quite well with these - I never have. You can
spend a fortune on special substrate soils etc and/or things like under
substrate heating. Personally, I just have plain old sand in the bottom of
my tanks & the plants I have grow well in it (with the aid of root tabs &
liquid fertilizer). If you are in the States Fluorite seems to be the
substrate of choice.

I have two tanks, one as described above and another which is deeper - 24"
of glass - over that I've got four x 40W tubes & it has CO2 on it as well -
its positivly overgrown at the moment - lights are on for about 13 hours on
that one.

HTH

I.

"WhiskerFish" wrote in message
news
I have purchased a split glass cover and am prepared to build
a hood from scratch to meet the needs of the lighting system. What I
am looking for is recommendations for a maintenance free Long term
lighting system that will be both natural in appearance for the fish
veiwing and healthy for the plants. Money while always a concern is
secondary to getting it right the first time. Heat generation for
summer months is a concern. Tank Dimentions are 21"H x 12 wide x 48
long. I am a capable electrician and carpenter so manufacturing /
assembly are a possibility.

No I have not finished reading the info available at the Krib
but will do so this week as part of my decision process.

Thanks a bunch for any info you care to share!

I wouldn't profess to be an expert on this but, as a general rule you need
roughly 2-3W per gallon if you can manage it. That would mean you are
looking for somewhere around 120W - which would be 3 fluorescent tubes. You
could also look at the "T5" systems which are supposed to be a lot brighter
& give generally more "bang for your buck".

Other options would be Metal Halides but these don't fit in a hood but are
suspended over the tank.

Key thing to remember is that everything must be in balance - you can have
too much light - if you do you'll get Algae. The determining factor here is
the CO2 level in the tank - if you don't have CO2 then you probably don't
want more than 120W - I have a similar size tank with only 80W & no CO2 & a
variety of plants grow very well. Plants need light, CO2 & Nutrients to
grow - skimp on any one of these and things will go awry. Obviously there
are some plants that will grow better in low light than others so you need
to select plants according to your lighting.

There are a vast variety of tubes on the market these days that give
different light spectrums some of which are more suited to plants than
others. There are also tubes which will enhance the colours of your fish.

Also make sure you have your lights on for a constant amount of time every
day - 12 hours is a rough guide. Easy way to manage this is with a timer.
You can vary this depending on how well your plants (or your Algae!) is
doing - you can go down to 10 or up to say 14 hours depending on what works.

Other things to consider when trying to grow plants are the substrate and
the filtration. Under gravel filters are generally not recommended although
some people do seem to manage quite well with these - I never have. You can
spend a fortune on special substrate soils etc and/or things like under
substrate heating. Personally, I just have plain old sand in the bottom of
my tanks & the plants I have grow well in it (with the aid of root tabs &
liquid fertilizer). If you are in the States Fluorite seems to be the
substrate of choice.

I have two tanks, one as described above and another which is deeper - 24"
of glass - over that I've got four x 40W tubes & it has CO2 on it as well -
its positivly overgrown at the moment - lights are on for about 13 hours on
that one.

HTH

I.

On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 01:11:17 -0000, "Iain Miller"
wrote:

"WhiskerFish" wrote in message
news
I have purchased a split glass cover and am prepared to build
a hood from scratch to meet the needs of the lighting system. What I
am looking for is recommendations for a maintenance free Long term
lighting system that will be both natural in appearance for the fish
veiwing and healthy for the plants. Money while always a concern is
secondary to getting it right the first time. Heat generation for
summer months is a concern. Tank Dimentions are 21"H x 12 wide x 48
long. I am a capable electrician and carpenter so manufacturing /
assembly are a possibility.

No I have not finished reading the info available at the Krib
but will do so this week as part of my decision process.

Thanks a bunch for any info you care to share!

I wouldn't profess to be an expert on this but, as a general rule you need
roughly 2-3W per gallon if you can manage it. That would mean you are
looking for somewhere around 120W - which would be 3 fluorescent tubes. You
could also look at the "T5" systems which are supposed to be a lot brighter
& give generally more "bang for your buck".

Other options would be Metal Halides but these don't fit in a hood but are
suspended over the tank.

Key thing to remember is that everything must be in balance - you can have
too much light - if you do you'll get Algae. The determining factor here is
the CO2 level in the tank - if you don't have CO2 then you probably don't
want more than 120W - I have a similar size tank with only 80W & no CO2 & a
variety of plants grow very well. Plants need light, CO2 & Nutrients to
grow - skimp on any one of these and things will go awry. Obviously there
are some plants that will grow better in low light than others so you need
to select plants according to your lighting.

There are a vast variety of tubes on the market these days that give
different light spectrums some of which are more suited to plants than
others. There are also tubes which will enhance the colours of your fish.

Also make sure you have your lights on for a constant amount of time every
day - 12 hours is a rough guide. Easy way to manage this is with a timer.
You can vary this depending on how well your plants (or your Algae!) is
doing - you can go down to 10 or up to say 14 hours depending on what works.

Other things to consider when trying to grow plants are the substrate and
the filtration. Under gravel filters are generally not recommended although
some people do seem to manage quite well with these - I never have. You can
spend a fortune on special substrate soils etc and/or things like under
substrate heating. Personally, I just have plain old sand in the bottom of
my tanks & the plants I have grow well in it (with the aid of root tabs &
liquid fertilizer). If you are in the States Fluorite seems to be the
substrate of choice.

I have two tanks, one as described above and another which is deeper - 24"
of glass - over that I've got four x 40W tubes & it has CO2 on it as well -
its positivly overgrown at the moment - lights are on for about 13 hours on
that one.

HTH

I.

Thank you very much for the information. At this time I prefer not to
go into the buisness of CO2 and lots of fertilizers. I think a "Slow
growth" tank is more my plan if such a thing exists. Lots of things
yet to figure out. Like working with a width of only 12 inches how
can you put up a double tube light fixture and still have room for
filter hang-over and a maintenance/ feeding opening? Going to look at
the hardware store tomorrow for assemblies so I have something in my
head to work with. Again thank you for the info and Ideas!

WF

On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 01:11:17 -0000, "Iain Miller"
wrote:

"WhiskerFish" wrote in message
news
I have purchased a split glass cover and am prepared to build
a hood from scratch to meet the needs of the lighting system. What I
am looking for is recommendations for a maintenance free Long term
lighting system that will be both natural in appearance for the fish
veiwing and healthy for the plants. Money while always a concern is
secondary to getting it right the first time. Heat generation for
summer months is a concern. Tank Dimentions are 21"H x 12 wide x 48
long. I am a capable electrician and carpenter so manufacturing /
assembly are a possibility.

No I have not finished reading the info available at the Krib
but will do so this week as part of my decision process.

Thanks a bunch for any info you care to share!

I wouldn't profess to be an expert on this but, as a general rule you need
roughly 2-3W per gallon if you can manage it. That would mean you are
looking for somewhere around 120W - which would be 3 fluorescent tubes. You
could also look at the "T5" systems which are supposed to be a lot brighter
& give generally more "bang for your buck".

Other options would be Metal Halides but these don't fit in a hood but are
suspended over the tank.

Key thing to remember is that everything must be in balance - you can have
too much light - if you do you'll get Algae. The determining factor here is
the CO2 level in the tank - if you don't have CO2 then you probably don't
want more than 120W - I have a similar size tank with only 80W & no CO2 & a
variety of plants grow very well. Plants need light, CO2 & Nutrients to
grow - skimp on any one of these and things will go awry. Obviously there
are some plants that will grow better in low light than others so you need
to select plants according to your lighting.

There are a vast variety of tubes on the market these days that give
different light spectrums some of which are more suited to plants than
others. There are also tubes which will enhance the colours of your fish.

Also make sure you have your lights on for a constant amount of time every
day - 12 hours is a rough guide. Easy way to manage this is with a timer.
You can vary this depending on how well your plants (or your Algae!) is
doing - you can go down to 10 or up to say 14 hours depending on what works.

Other things to consider when trying to grow plants are the substrate and
the filtration. Under gravel filters are generally not recommended although
some people do seem to manage quite well with these - I never have. You can
spend a fortune on special substrate soils etc and/or things like under
substrate heating. Personally, I just have plain old sand in the bottom of
my tanks & the plants I have grow well in it (with the aid of root tabs &
liquid fertilizer). If you are in the States Fluorite seems to be the
substrate of choice.

I have two tanks, one as described above and another which is deeper - 24"
of glass - over that I've got four x 40W tubes & it has CO2 on it as well -
its positivly overgrown at the moment - lights are on for about 13 hours on
that one.

HTH

I.

Thank you very much for the information. At this time I prefer not to
go into the buisness of CO2 and lots of fertilizers. I think a "Slow
growth" tank is more my plan if such a thing exists. Lots of things
yet to figure out. Like working with a width of only 12 inches how
can you put up a double tube light fixture and still have room for
filter hang-over and a maintenance/ feeding opening? Going to look at
the hardware store tomorrow for assemblies so I have something in my
head to work with. Again thank you for the info and Ideas!

WF

WhiskerFish wrote:

At this time I prefer not to
go into the buisness of CO2 and lots of fertilizers. I think a "Slow
growth" tank is more my plan if such a thing exists.

Yes, such a thing exists, and you can enjoy it immensly. Target 1-1.5 watts per
gallon. But do read up on the Krib and elsewhere, because it is at this time that
you can most easily make good decisions about lighting and substrate.

WhiskerFish wrote:

At this time I prefer not to
go into the buisness of CO2 and lots of fertilizers. I think a "Slow
growth" tank is more my plan if such a thing exists.

Yes, such a thing exists, and you can enjoy it immensly. Target 1-1.5 watts per
gallon. But do read up on the Krib and elsewhere, because it is at this time that
you can most easily make good decisions about lighting and substrate.

On Sun, 16 Feb 2003 19:52:38 -0800, Dave Millman
wrote:

WhiskerFish wrote:

At this time I prefer not to
go into the buisness of CO2 and lots of fertilizers. I think a "Slow
growth" tank is more my plan if such a thing exists.

Yes, such a thing exists, and you can enjoy it immensly. Target 1-1.5 watts per
gallon. But do read up on the Krib and elsewhere, because it is at this time that
you can most easily make good decisions about lighting and substrate.


That is exactly the range I am thinking about. 50 to 100 watts. I
think I am set on a 48" double tube design, now I have to figure out
the mix of bulbs. I currently have only a gravel substrate and am
thinking/ researching on how to upgrade that as well.
Thanks

WF

On Sun, 16 Feb 2003 19:52:38 -0800, Dave Millman
wrote:

WhiskerFish wrote:

At this time I prefer not to
go into the buisness of CO2 and lots of fertilizers. I think a "Slow
growth" tank is more my plan if such a thing exists.

Yes, such a thing exists, and you can enjoy it immensly. Target 1-1.5 watts per
gallon. But do read up on the Krib and elsewhere, because it is at this time that
you can most easily make good decisions about lighting and substrate.


That is exactly the range I am thinking about. 50 to 100 watts. I
think I am set on a 48" double tube design, now I have to figure out
the mix of bulbs. I currently have only a gravel substrate and am
thinking/ researching on how to upgrade that as well.
Thanks

WF

On Sun, 16 Feb 2003 15:45:10 GMT, WhiskerFish
wrote:

Check out www.ahsupply.com and look at a 2 x 55 watt CF kit. It will
give you 110 watts of light with great reflectors and not take up a
lot of room.

Hello all

Been watching this NG for a few days now and it looks like
there is a world of knowledge here. Anyway my situation. Recently
getting back into the Hobby after a 20 plus year absence. Currently
have 2 55 U.S.G. tanks set up and a 29 USG as my hospital tank. All
are up and cycled doing good.

The primary 55 Gal in my living room I have lightly populated
with some plants. 2 Amazon Swords. 3 Cardamine Lyrata's and a few
short grasses. Fish population/loading is close to maximum. I want
to add more plants and I need to upgrade from the standard LFS
supplied lighting system. Right now I have less than 50 watts for the
whole tank. There is substantial non-direct sun light during the day
but wish to do better to have some flexability and ensure I give the
plants a chance to flourish. This will always be primarily a fish
tank not plant dedicated.

I have purchased a split glass cover and am prepared to build
a hood from scratch to meet the needs of the lighting system. What I
am looking for is recommendations for a maintenance free Long term
lighting system that will be both natural in appearance for the fish
veiwing and healthy for the plants. Money while always a concern is
secondary to getting it right the first time. Heat generation for
summer months is a concern. Tank Dimentions are 21"H x 12 wide x 48
long. I am a capable electrician and carpenter so manufacturing /
assembly are a possibility.

No I have not finished reading the info available at the Krib
but will do so this week as part of my decision process.

Thanks a bunch for any info you care to share!

Steve
aka "WhiskerFish"

On Sun, 16 Feb 2003 15:45:10 GMT, WhiskerFish
wrote:

Check out www.ahsupply.com and look at a 2 x 55 watt CF kit. It will
give you 110 watts of light with great reflectors and not take up a
lot of room.

Hello all

Been watching this NG for a few days now and it looks like
there is a world of knowledge here. Anyway my situation. Recently
getting back into the Hobby after a 20 plus year absence. Currently
have 2 55 U.S.G. tanks set up and a 29 USG as my hospital tank. All
are up and cycled doing good.

The primary 55 Gal in my living room I have lightly populated
with some plants. 2 Amazon Swords. 3 Cardamine Lyrata's and a few
short grasses. Fish population/loading is close to maximum. I want
to add more plants and I need to upgrade from the standard LFS
supplied lighting system. Right now I have less than 50 watts for the
whole tank. There is substantial non-direct sun light during the day
but wish to do better to have some flexability and ensure I give the
plants a chance to flourish. This will always be primarily a fish
tank not plant dedicated.

I have purchased a split glass cover and am prepared to build
a hood from scratch to meet the needs of the lighting system. What I
am looking for is recommendations for a maintenance free Long term
lighting system that will be both natural in appearance for the fish
veiwing and healthy for the plants. Money while always a concern is
secondary to getting it right the first time. Heat generation for
summer months is a concern. Tank Dimentions are 21"H x 12 wide x 48
long. I am a capable electrician and carpenter so manufacturing /
assembly are a possibility.

No I have not finished reading the info available at the Krib
but will do so this week as part of my decision process.

Thanks a bunch for any info you care to share!

Steve
aka "WhiskerFish"

Been there and they definetly make the short list to choose from.
Thanks

WF

On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:01:38 -0800, Cannibul
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Feb 2003 15:45:10 GMT, WhiskerFish
wrote:

Check out www.ahsupply.com and look at a 2 x 55 watt CF kit. It will
give you 110 watts of light with great reflectors and not take up a
lot of room.

Hello all

Been watching this NG for a few days now and it looks like
there is a world of knowledge here. Anyway my situation. Recently
getting back into the Hobby after a 20 plus year absence. Currently
have 2 55 U.S.G. tanks set up and a 29 USG as my hospital tank. All
are up and cycled doing good.

The primary 55 Gal in my living room I have lightly populated
with some plants. 2 Amazon Swords. 3 Cardamine Lyrata's and a few
short grasses. Fish population/loading is close to maximum. I want
to add more plants and I need to upgrade from the standard LFS
supplied lighting system. Right now I have less than 50 watts for the
whole tank. There is substantial non-direct sun light during the day
but wish to do better to have some flexability and ensure I give the
plants a chance to flourish. This will always be primarily a fish
tank not plant dedicated.

I have purchased a split glass cover and am prepared to build
a hood from scratch to meet the needs of the lighting system. What I
am looking for is recommendations for a maintenance free Long term
lighting system that will be both natural in appearance for the fish
veiwing and healthy for the plants. Money while always a concern is
secondary to getting it right the first time. Heat generation for
summer months is a concern. Tank Dimentions are 21"H x 12 wide x 48
long. I am a capable electrician and carpenter so manufacturing /
assembly are a possibility.

No I have not finished reading the info available at the Krib
but will do so this week as part of my decision process.

Thanks a bunch for any info you care to share!

Steve
aka "WhiskerFish"

Been there and they definetly make the short list to choose from.
Thanks

WF

On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:01:38 -0800, Cannibul
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Feb 2003 15:45:10 GMT, WhiskerFish
wrote:

Check out www.ahsupply.com and look at a 2 x 55 watt CF kit. It will
give you 110 watts of light with great reflectors and not take up a
lot of room.

Hello all

Been watching this NG for a few days now and it looks like
there is a world of knowledge here. Anyway my situation. Recently
getting back into the Hobby after a 20 plus year absence. Currently
have 2 55 U.S.G. tanks set up and a 29 USG as my hospital tank. All
are up and cycled doing good.

The primary 55 Gal in my living room I have lightly populated
with some plants. 2 Amazon Swords. 3 Cardamine Lyrata's and a few
short grasses. Fish population/loading is close to maximum. I want
to add more plants and I need to upgrade from the standard LFS
supplied lighting system. Right now I have less than 50 watts for the
whole tank. There is substantial non-direct sun light during the day
but wish to do better to have some flexability and ensure I give the
plants a chance to flourish. This will always be primarily a fish
tank not plant dedicated.

I have purchased a split glass cover and am prepared to build
a hood from scratch to meet the needs of the lighting system. What I
am looking for is recommendations for a maintenance free Long term
lighting system that will be both natural in appearance for the fish
veiwing and healthy for the plants. Money while always a concern is
secondary to getting it right the first time. Heat generation for
summer months is a concern. Tank Dimentions are 21"H x 12 wide x 48
long. I am a capable electrician and carpenter so manufacturing /
assembly are a possibility.

No I have not finished reading the info available at the Krib
but will do so this week as part of my decision process.

Thanks a bunch for any info you care to share!

Steve
aka "WhiskerFish"