Linda, do a search on "biogenic decalcification." When you talk about
"dusty flake-like stuff" precipitating out of the water, I'm wondering
whether it's a product of your bacteria bloom or the insoluble minerals in
your water. Also, before you go to bed tonight, leave out a pail of tap
water so you can test the pH tomorrow after it has outgassed. I'm wondering
whether the pH is higher in your tank or your faucet. Post the results
tomorrow night. Regardless, I'm going to recommend injecting with CO2.

Don't obsess about clean gravel. Plants LIKE growing in fish poop. I've
had UGF systems running for many years that have only been occasionally,
partially cleaned. When I get down under the stand and look up at the
bottom of the (glass-bottomed) tank, I can see clear water flowing through
the root systems under the plates. You CAN scour your gravel every week
but, at this point, in the interest of getting your system settled into a
desirable equilibrium, I'd just let things be.

kush

linda mar wrote in message
...
Hi Kush,

Hi, Linda. I'm uncomfortable in the role of "expert," but since I'm the
self-designated UGF/high pH-soft-water guy, what the hey...

:-) I'll take any advice I can get! and at this point, most people on
the
group is more expert than I am, so.. :-)

The first impression I get is that you might be doing too many
interventions
and too much cleaning. If the tank has only been up a couple of months
(?),
you sure don't need to be vacuuming gravel. I only do mine every year
or
so

I don' t know about too many interventions, except for cutting dying
vegetation stirring up stuff, but when I look at the edge of the tank, and
on my milfoils, I can see LOTS of brown goop accumulating.. dusty
flake-like stuff.. something precipitating out from the water, that is
settling on everything inside the tank. I had a huge diatom infestation
during the initial tank cycling to a point I could not see through the
glass.. all of which otos did a marvelous job of cleaning.. but what goes
into the oto must come out, and I think much of the gunk on the gravel, I
think, is oto poop or what's left of it. I mean, when the otos were at
it,
their poops *covered* the surface of anything remotely horizontal, to a
point where there were no green showing on the poor anubias leaf
(completely
covered in oto poop. I should have taken a photo...).

the brown flaky stuff, the poor milfoil becomes covered in brown again in
minutes even when I shake them loose.. instead of settling to the gravel,
the brown stuff just gets re-attached to the leaves and suffocating the
plant (I think I killed off a few because of this)... the bigger-leaved
plants aren't as bad.. but milfoil isn't doing too well, since it's acting
like a strainer.

I haven't been vacuuming all that much, since the time I have before I hit
the 25% water extraction is pretty fast and doesn't give me enough time to
just get the obvious plant debris that gets stirred up, etc.. but haven't
done anything out of the ordinary in terms of tank maintenance.

and only if I happen to be replanting a large area. Besides, Leigh and

well.. I had to pull out few plants that didn't survive the transplant
shock... that made a huge mess.. does that count? :-)

others are going to scold you for wasting all that yummy mulm (after
they
stop palpitating over the ugf). At any rate, I'd recommend just doing
your

:-)

25% weekly-or-so water changes for a while and letting things get
established.

ok... but, don't I need to vacuum gravel if I don't want the UGF to fail?
(go anaerobic). I got lots of big-root plants (swords, etc.. I thought I
was only ordering two.. from trueaquariumplants..), and I keep hearing
that
the roots will clog the filter, so I need to be more diligent about
keeping
the substrate unclogged (at the expense of depriving the roots of food and
too much oxygen..)...

The big issue is the pH. Ammonium is not stable at pH much over 7 and
in
really alkaline water will change into very-bad-for-your-fish ammonia.
This
may mean that your tank isn't really cycled after all. Are you adding
CO2?
If not, I (almost) guarantee that adding CO2 will eliminate your cloudy
water within 24 hours.

my tap water is naturally soft.. and I think the pH is artificially made
high by the water treatment facility... I haven't had the chance to
measure
the pH straight out of the tap yet, but the water report says average pH
is
9.1 or so... so the high alkaline level is not really due to the fish,
but
because of the source water having high pH.. and is slowly coming down as
the water ages.

pH of 7.5 to 8 is not slightly alkaline. It is very alkaline. With low
kH

:-P right. logrithmic.. misspoke.. except for the otos, I've tried to
put in fish that can survive higher alkaline water... (and add "soft" and
"non-brackish" to that, and it becomes very limiting!)

(presumably) by formula your water contains little CO2. Supplementing
with
CO2 is not going to be optional for you, even with low lighting. The

does this mean Flourish Excel is a bad idea too? the tank has one 55W
CF..
(low-to-moderate brightness)

bogwood and plants will help to bring the pH down over time too.

I think it is bringing it down. since the tap is *supposedly* originally
high in pH, I just have to make sure I don't go without water change for
too
long (pH change shock caused by new/old water difference will be worse if
I
leave it be too long), or that was the advice i was given based on my
water
report (soft water, high pH tap)

thanks!
linda


linda mar wrote in message
...
Dear experts..

I've been having hazy water ever since the first day I put fish in the
tank,
with some dose of "Cycle" as recommende by LFS and the bottle. it's
not
completely cloudy, but hazy.. just enough to be very useful to get
some
depth perception photo between the foreground leaves and background
leaves..

I've finished cycling for several weeks, algae is under control,
ammonia
and
nitrite=0 (still waiting to get my nitrate test kit). The water is
slightly
alkaline (pH somewhere between 7.5 and 8 depending on who tests it)
and
relatively soft (never tested, but based on municipal water report
dH~4
or
so), and is kept around 78F. I just bought the freshwater test kit,
so
starting this water change cycle, I will be able to run a battery of
test
to
monitor the water condition (low dH/gH has potential pH crash
worries..)

Tank cycled using UGF using a relatively coarse pea-sized gravel about
2in
thick, powered by two power heads (aquaclear 201's). The power head
spouts
are tilted enough to cause some surface agitation (lots of ripples),
but
does not use venturi. I have added a HOT power filter hoping to
supplement
mechanical filtering after the tank finished cycling (aquaclear200.
two
foam blocks, no carbon) hoping it would help clear the water better
(no
such
luck). Tank is moderately to heavily planted, and moderately stocked.
(the
cloudiness was there even when very lightly stocked and no plants,
so.).
I
have some bogwoods in the tank (some tannin leeching, but that's ok.
Decided yellowish water by itself doesn't bother me.. just the haze)

Starting this weekend, I've decided to do some systematic cleaning
over
the
next few weeks, to see if I can somehow get the water to clear up
more.
I
know hazy water doesn't hurt the fish, but it's just that I envy my
favorite
LFSs' crystal-clear tanks (some even have real plants, and they still
look
very very clear. only murky tanks are when they're cleaning the tank,
or
the
feeder fish tank..), and the fact that the other two smaller tanks we
have
are very clear (eclipse hood). so, cloudy water=something not quite
optimal..

Here is the list I've come up with that I should try to address, and
see
if
the water will clear up. I was hoping the experts on this group can
point
me to other places to investigate (or just tell me to give up if the
following effort doesn't pan out):

1. water changes
I do 20%-25% water change every 2 weeks ever since the tank has cycled
(I
target 15-20%, but seems to end up taking out more water than I
intended
when using siphon-style gravel vac..). Obviously this in itself
hasn't
helped much in clearing out water
2. gravel vac
I just bought the air-pump activated gravel vac, so I can do more
thorough
vacumming (the siphon vac took out water too quickly). I hope to
remove
as
much plant debris, and other detritus from the gravel and plants,
without
malnutritioning the plants. (will be putting root tabs soon)
3. UGF maintenance
try to siphon out some of the gunk accumulating underneath the UGF
plating
(use narrow tubing and shove it under the plate through the uplift
tube
opening). Last time I got lots of brownish goo out... I guess the
substrate
is too coarse and letting lots of detrius get trapped under the
plating,
oh
well.. next time i'll get something better)
3. plant cleaning
remove all deteriorating leaves on all stem plants, continue to vacuum
out
crud that accumulates on fine-leaved plants (acting as a filter!)
4. foam filter on powerfilter
take out and clean (not used for biological filter yet) often. May be
add
a
finer filter floss? (what size mesh? I see 50um or 100um particle
traps)?
5. add aqua-clear type particle coagulator for more efficient
mechanical
filtering.

are there other things I should look at to see how I can increase the
water
clarity without hurting the ecosystem? I assume normal gravel
vac/siphoning
under UGF plating won't hurt the beneficial bacteria. I won't clean
the
power filter and UGF at the same time (will stagger cleaning timing)
to
assure that the bacteria colony isn't completely destroyed.

linda

Linda, do a search on "biogenic decalcification." When you talk about
"dusty flake-like stuff" precipitating out of the water, I'm wondering
whether it's a product of your bacteria bloom or the insoluble minerals in
your water. Also, before you go to bed tonight, leave out a pail of tap
water so you can test the pH tomorrow after it has outgassed. I'm wondering
whether the pH is higher in your tank or your faucet. Post the results
tomorrow night. Regardless, I'm going to recommend injecting with CO2.

Don't obsess about clean gravel. Plants LIKE growing in fish poop. I've
had UGF systems running for many years that have only been occasionally,
partially cleaned. When I get down under the stand and look up at the
bottom of the (glass-bottomed) tank, I can see clear water flowing through
the root systems under the plates. You CAN scour your gravel every week
but, at this point, in the interest of getting your system settled into a
desirable equilibrium, I'd just let things be.

kush

linda mar wrote in message
...
Hi Kush,

Hi, Linda. I'm uncomfortable in the role of "expert," but since I'm the
self-designated UGF/high pH-soft-water guy, what the hey...

:-) I'll take any advice I can get! and at this point, most people on
the
group is more expert than I am, so.. :-)

The first impression I get is that you might be doing too many
interventions
and too much cleaning. If the tank has only been up a couple of months
(?),
you sure don't need to be vacuuming gravel. I only do mine every year
or
so

I don' t know about too many interventions, except for cutting dying
vegetation stirring up stuff, but when I look at the edge of the tank, and
on my milfoils, I can see LOTS of brown goop accumulating.. dusty
flake-like stuff.. something precipitating out from the water, that is
settling on everything inside the tank. I had a huge diatom infestation
during the initial tank cycling to a point I could not see through the
glass.. all of which otos did a marvelous job of cleaning.. but what goes
into the oto must come out, and I think much of the gunk on the gravel, I
think, is oto poop or what's left of it. I mean, when the otos were at
it,
their poops *covered* the surface of anything remotely horizontal, to a
point where there were no green showing on the poor anubias leaf
(completely
covered in oto poop. I should have taken a photo...).

the brown flaky stuff, the poor milfoil becomes covered in brown again in
minutes even when I shake them loose.. instead of settling to the gravel,
the brown stuff just gets re-attached to the leaves and suffocating the
plant (I think I killed off a few because of this)... the bigger-leaved
plants aren't as bad.. but milfoil isn't doing too well, since it's acting
like a strainer.

I haven't been vacuuming all that much, since the time I have before I hit
the 25% water extraction is pretty fast and doesn't give me enough time to
just get the obvious plant debris that gets stirred up, etc.. but haven't
done anything out of the ordinary in terms of tank maintenance.

and only if I happen to be replanting a large area. Besides, Leigh and

well.. I had to pull out few plants that didn't survive the transplant
shock... that made a huge mess.. does that count? :-)

others are going to scold you for wasting all that yummy mulm (after
they
stop palpitating over the ugf). At any rate, I'd recommend just doing
your

:-)

25% weekly-or-so water changes for a while and letting things get
established.

ok... but, don't I need to vacuum gravel if I don't want the UGF to fail?
(go anaerobic). I got lots of big-root plants (swords, etc.. I thought I
was only ordering two.. from trueaquariumplants..), and I keep hearing
that
the roots will clog the filter, so I need to be more diligent about
keeping
the substrate unclogged (at the expense of depriving the roots of food and
too much oxygen..)...

The big issue is the pH. Ammonium is not stable at pH much over 7 and
in
really alkaline water will change into very-bad-for-your-fish ammonia.
This
may mean that your tank isn't really cycled after all. Are you adding
CO2?
If not, I (almost) guarantee that adding CO2 will eliminate your cloudy
water within 24 hours.

my tap water is naturally soft.. and I think the pH is artificially made
high by the water treatment facility... I haven't had the chance to
measure
the pH straight out of the tap yet, but the water report says average pH
is
9.1 or so... so the high alkaline level is not really due to the fish,
but
because of the source water having high pH.. and is slowly coming down as
the water ages.

pH of 7.5 to 8 is not slightly alkaline. It is very alkaline. With low
kH

:-P right. logrithmic.. misspoke.. except for the otos, I've tried to
put in fish that can survive higher alkaline water... (and add "soft" and
"non-brackish" to that, and it becomes very limiting!)

(presumably) by formula your water contains little CO2. Supplementing
with
CO2 is not going to be optional for you, even with low lighting. The

does this mean Flourish Excel is a bad idea too? the tank has one 55W
CF..
(low-to-moderate brightness)

bogwood and plants will help to bring the pH down over time too.

I think it is bringing it down. since the tap is *supposedly* originally
high in pH, I just have to make sure I don't go without water change for
too
long (pH change shock caused by new/old water difference will be worse if
I
leave it be too long), or that was the advice i was given based on my
water
report (soft water, high pH tap)

thanks!
linda


linda mar wrote in message
...
Dear experts..

I've been having hazy water ever since the first day I put fish in the
tank,
with some dose of "Cycle" as recommende by LFS and the bottle. it's
not
completely cloudy, but hazy.. just enough to be very useful to get
some
depth perception photo between the foreground leaves and background
leaves..

I've finished cycling for several weeks, algae is under control,
ammonia
and
nitrite=0 (still waiting to get my nitrate test kit). The water is
slightly
alkaline (pH somewhere between 7.5 and 8 depending on who tests it)
and
relatively soft (never tested, but based on municipal water report
dH~4
or
so), and is kept around 78F. I just bought the freshwater test kit,
so
starting this water change cycle, I will be able to run a battery of
test
to
monitor the water condition (low dH/gH has potential pH crash
worries..)

Tank cycled using UGF using a relatively coarse pea-sized gravel about
2in
thick, powered by two power heads (aquaclear 201's). The power head
spouts
are tilted enough to cause some surface agitation (lots of ripples),
but
does not use venturi. I have added a HOT power filter hoping to
supplement
mechanical filtering after the tank finished cycling (aquaclear200.
two
foam blocks, no carbon) hoping it would help clear the water better
(no
such
luck). Tank is moderately to heavily planted, and moderately stocked.
(the
cloudiness was there even when very lightly stocked and no plants,
so.).
I
have some bogwoods in the tank (some tannin leeching, but that's ok.
Decided yellowish water by itself doesn't bother me.. just the haze)

Starting this weekend, I've decided to do some systematic cleaning
over
the
next few weeks, to see if I can somehow get the water to clear up
more.
I
know hazy water doesn't hurt the fish, but it's just that I envy my
favorite
LFSs' crystal-clear tanks (some even have real plants, and they still
look
very very clear. only murky tanks are when they're cleaning the tank,
or
the
feeder fish tank..), and the fact that the other two smaller tanks we
have
are very clear (eclipse hood). so, cloudy water=something not quite
optimal..

Here is the list I've come up with that I should try to address, and
see
if
the water will clear up. I was hoping the experts on this group can
point
me to other places to investigate (or just tell me to give up if the
following effort doesn't pan out):

1. water changes
I do 20%-25% water change every 2 weeks ever since the tank has cycled
(I
target 15-20%, but seems to end up taking out more water than I
intended
when using siphon-style gravel vac..). Obviously this in itself
hasn't
helped much in clearing out water
2. gravel vac
I just bought the air-pump activated gravel vac, so I can do more
thorough
vacumming (the siphon vac took out water too quickly). I hope to
remove
as
much plant debris, and other detritus from the gravel and plants,
without
malnutritioning the plants. (will be putting root tabs soon)
3. UGF maintenance
try to siphon out some of the gunk accumulating underneath the UGF
plating
(use narrow tubing and shove it under the plate through the uplift
tube
opening). Last time I got lots of brownish goo out... I guess the
substrate
is too coarse and letting lots of detrius get trapped under the
plating,
oh
well.. next time i'll get something better)
3. plant cleaning
remove all deteriorating leaves on all stem plants, continue to vacuum
out
crud that accumulates on fine-leaved plants (acting as a filter!)
4. foam filter on powerfilter
take out and clean (not used for biological filter yet) often. May be
add
a
finer filter floss? (what size mesh? I see 50um or 100um particle
traps)?
5. add aqua-clear type particle coagulator for more efficient
mechanical
filtering.

are there other things I should look at to see how I can increase the
water
clarity without hurting the ecosystem? I assume normal gravel
vac/siphoning
under UGF plating won't hurt the beneficial bacteria. I won't clean
the
power filter and UGF at the same time (will stagger cleaning timing)
to
assure that the bacteria colony isn't completely destroyed.

linda

Gary Dawg wrote ...

Can't imagine how bad
it would be in a month, never mind a year.

Not bad at all. In fact, if you have a glass-bottomed tank on an open-top
stand you can look and see. I have a tank that's been up, I think, seven
years and there is a whole 'nother happy, healthy ecosystem going on under
the filter plates. Remember, the nitrifying bacteria are breaking down all
that mulm and shipping it back up the risers into the water column to feed
our plants.

You can definitely keep your gravel squeaky clean and that works, too, but
you're throwing away valuable fertilizer. Besides, I don't like working
that hard.

Gary Dawg wrote ...

Can't imagine how bad
it would be in a month, never mind a year.

Not bad at all. In fact, if you have a glass-bottomed tank on an open-top
stand you can look and see. I have a tank that's been up, I think, seven
years and there is a whole 'nother happy, healthy ecosystem going on under
the filter plates. Remember, the nitrifying bacteria are breaking down all
that mulm and shipping it back up the risers into the water column to feed
our plants.

You can definitely keep your gravel squeaky clean and that works, too, but
you're throwing away valuable fertilizer. Besides, I don't like working
that hard.

Hi Kush,

thanks for replying!

Linda, do a search on "biogenic decalcification." When you talk about

ok. I'll look it up...

"dusty flake-like stuff" precipitating out of the water, I'm wondering
whether it's a product of your bacteria bloom or the insoluble minerals in
your water.

don't know.. but it looks more algae-like than not. when I used to live in
Cambridge, MA where once in a while you get a tea-colored water coming out
of the tap, and was told by the water department that it's a "harmless
algae", and it sort of happened in a regular basis whenever they switched to
a different reservoire intake.. yuck. and if you leave it be for few
hours, the brown stuff precipitates out into fluffy stuff.. that's what it
looks like (more or less). Cambridge also had pretty soft water... but
where I live now, I've never had brown water come out tho...

For your reference, I posted the current municipal water report in
r.a.f.misc under "municipal water report" dated 2/6...

Also, before you go to bed tonight, leave out a pail of tap
water so you can test the pH tomorrow after it has outgassed. I'm
wondering
whether the pH is higher in your tank or your faucet. Post the results

ok. will do. should I air-bubble it overnight? or just leave it sitting?

tomorrow night. Regardless, I'm going to recommend injecting with CO2.

waaa :-( too much hardware... my tank is essentially free-standing, so
more tubes will not be easily routed, not to mention not much floor space
left inside the tank... :-( this is not going to be easy to implement...

Don't obsess about clean gravel. Plants LIKE growing in fish poop. I've
had UGF systems running for many years that have only been occasionally,
partially cleaned. When I get down under the stand and look up at the
bottom of the (glass-bottomed) tank, I can see clear water flowing through
the root systems under the plates. You CAN scour your gravel every week
but, at this point, in the interest of getting your system settled into a
desirable equilibrium, I'd just let things be.

OK. I'll only suck out obvious debris..

what about the stuff accumulating under the plates? is it ok to leave those
there? my tank is sitting on a wooden stand, so I can't see under the tank,
but I was cleaning the UGF uptake tube using the bottle brush since I was
clearing the intake of the powerheads anyway (brown slimey stuff that
accumulated on the intake was clogging it a bit, and while I was at it, I
decided that the otos won't get to the algae growing inside the tube,
so...), and the suction the brush made drew up a lot of the brown fluffly
stuff from under the plate... I assume there is more where those stuff came
from...

P.S. I really am not that obsessive as it sounds, I swear!.. :-P that was
the second time I ever cleaned algae in the tank (i guess it's closer to 3mo
now..)! first time cleaning, I had to wipe some off the glass so I can see
what I was doing when I was planting (the tank was completely beige and
almost completely opaque by then...), second is the inside of the update
tube..

thank you :-)

linda

Hi Kush,

thanks for replying!

Linda, do a search on "biogenic decalcification." When you talk about

ok. I'll look it up...

"dusty flake-like stuff" precipitating out of the water, I'm wondering
whether it's a product of your bacteria bloom or the insoluble minerals in
your water.

don't know.. but it looks more algae-like than not. when I used to live in
Cambridge, MA where once in a while you get a tea-colored water coming out
of the tap, and was told by the water department that it's a "harmless
algae", and it sort of happened in a regular basis whenever they switched to
a different reservoire intake.. yuck. and if you leave it be for few
hours, the brown stuff precipitates out into fluffy stuff.. that's what it
looks like (more or less). Cambridge also had pretty soft water... but
where I live now, I've never had brown water come out tho...

For your reference, I posted the current municipal water report in
r.a.f.misc under "municipal water report" dated 2/6...

Also, before you go to bed tonight, leave out a pail of tap
water so you can test the pH tomorrow after it has outgassed. I'm
wondering
whether the pH is higher in your tank or your faucet. Post the results

ok. will do. should I air-bubble it overnight? or just leave it sitting?

tomorrow night. Regardless, I'm going to recommend injecting with CO2.

waaa :-( too much hardware... my tank is essentially free-standing, so
more tubes will not be easily routed, not to mention not much floor space
left inside the tank... :-( this is not going to be easy to implement...

Don't obsess about clean gravel. Plants LIKE growing in fish poop. I've
had UGF systems running for many years that have only been occasionally,
partially cleaned. When I get down under the stand and look up at the
bottom of the (glass-bottomed) tank, I can see clear water flowing through
the root systems under the plates. You CAN scour your gravel every week
but, at this point, in the interest of getting your system settled into a
desirable equilibrium, I'd just let things be.

OK. I'll only suck out obvious debris..

what about the stuff accumulating under the plates? is it ok to leave those
there? my tank is sitting on a wooden stand, so I can't see under the tank,
but I was cleaning the UGF uptake tube using the bottle brush since I was
clearing the intake of the powerheads anyway (brown slimey stuff that
accumulated on the intake was clogging it a bit, and while I was at it, I
decided that the otos won't get to the algae growing inside the tube,
so...), and the suction the brush made drew up a lot of the brown fluffly
stuff from under the plate... I assume there is more where those stuff came
from...

P.S. I really am not that obsessive as it sounds, I swear!.. :-P that was
the second time I ever cleaned algae in the tank (i guess it's closer to 3mo
now..)! first time cleaning, I had to wipe some off the glass so I can see
what I was doing when I was planting (the tank was completely beige and
almost completely opaque by then...), second is the inside of the update
tube..

thank you :-)

linda

"linda mar" wrote in message
...

"Robert Flory" wrote in message
.com...
snip

My 55 was clear enough to see from one end to another in a couple of
hours.
I rinsed my filters and got gobs of goop. Unfortunately clearing the
problems wasn't as easy, but after a week of reduced feedings things are
remaining clear. Now I use it when every I stir things up.

what kind of filter do you use? I doubled up my sponge block on the
Aquaclear, and it take out incredible amount of goop, but obviously it's
not
fine enough.

Just generic pads I get at the LFS and cut to fit. same sort you are using
I suspect. The flocculent is what does the trick. All the fine stuff
clumps together and gets filtered out easier.

Bob

"linda mar" wrote in message
...

"Robert Flory" wrote in message
.com...
snip

My 55 was clear enough to see from one end to another in a couple of
hours.
I rinsed my filters and got gobs of goop. Unfortunately clearing the
problems wasn't as easy, but after a week of reduced feedings things are
remaining clear. Now I use it when every I stir things up.

what kind of filter do you use? I doubled up my sponge block on the
Aquaclear, and it take out incredible amount of goop, but obviously it's
not
fine enough.

Just generic pads I get at the LFS and cut to fit. same sort you are using
I suspect. The flocculent is what does the trick. All the fine stuff
clumps together and gets filtered out easier.

Bob

"linda mar" wrote in message
...
Hi Kush,

what about the stuff accumulating under the plates? is it ok to leave
those
there? my tank is sitting on a wooden stand, so I can't see under the
tank,
but I was cleaning the UGF uptake tube using the bottle brush since I was
clearing the intake of the powerheads anyway (brown slimey stuff that
accumulated on the intake was clogging it a bit, and while I was at it, I
decided that the otos won't get to the algae growing inside the tube,
so...), and the suction the brush made drew up a lot of the brown fluffly
stuff from under the plate... I assume there is more where those stuff
came
from...
snip

The stuff under the plates is only likely to be a problem if you shut off
the UGF without cleaning it out and develop a anaerobic environment (no
oxygen) that leads to H2S and trouble.

DIY CO2 is really simple. I just installed one, granted I don't have a good
control on the injection rate, that goes in tomorrow, but It is working
water is fine. I just have to use a air bubbler to keep the CO2 level from
going overboard. I've had plants grow over and inch in two days.

Bob

"linda mar" wrote in message
...
Hi Kush,

what about the stuff accumulating under the plates? is it ok to leave
those
there? my tank is sitting on a wooden stand, so I can't see under the
tank,
but I was cleaning the UGF uptake tube using the bottle brush since I was
clearing the intake of the powerheads anyway (brown slimey stuff that
accumulated on the intake was clogging it a bit, and while I was at it, I
decided that the otos won't get to the algae growing inside the tube,
so...), and the suction the brush made drew up a lot of the brown fluffly
stuff from under the plate... I assume there is more where those stuff
came
from...
snip

The stuff under the plates is only likely to be a problem if you shut off
the UGF without cleaning it out and develop a anaerobic environment (no
oxygen) that leads to H2S and trouble.

DIY CO2 is really simple. I just installed one, granted I don't have a good
control on the injection rate, that goes in tomorrow, but It is working
water is fine. I just have to use a air bubbler to keep the CO2 level from
going overboard. I've had plants grow over and inch in two days.

Bob

linda mar wrote ...

should I air-bubble it overnight? or just leave it sitting?

Either way, a couple of gallons should entirely outgas overnight,
particularly if you start with hot water.

waaa :-( too much hardware... my tank is essentially free-standing, so
more tubes will not be easily routed, not to mention not much floor space
left inside the tank...

Don't sweat it. A 2-liter juice bottle with an airline from the cap
straight to your powerhead, that's it. You can set the juice bottle on top
of the tank. We'll talk about it later. How big is the tank?

linda mar wrote ...

should I air-bubble it overnight? or just leave it sitting?

Either way, a couple of gallons should entirely outgas overnight,
particularly if you start with hot water.

waaa :-( too much hardware... my tank is essentially free-standing, so
more tubes will not be easily routed, not to mention not much floor space
left inside the tank...

Don't sweat it. A 2-liter juice bottle with an airline from the cap
straight to your powerhead, that's it. You can set the juice bottle on top
of the tank. We'll talk about it later. How big is the tank?

Hi,

should I air-bubble it overnight? or just leave it sitting?

Either way, a couple of gallons should entirely outgas overnight,
particularly if you start with hot water.

ok. hot water.. will let you know how it turns out...

waaa :-( too much hardware... my tank is essentially free-standing, so
more tubes will not be easily routed, not to mention not much floor
space
left inside the tank...

Don't sweat it. A 2-liter juice bottle with an airline from the cap
straight to your powerhead, that's it. You can set the juice bottle on
top
of the tank. We'll talk about it later. How big is the tank?

tank is 37G (footprint is equivalent to 29G.. 30x12x22)..

hmm 2-liter soda bottle on top of tank? not sure about that one.. aside
from the aesthetics, given how flimsy the plastic center brace of the tank
is, I'd be a little hesitant to put more weight on top of it.. (I'm not
entirely convinced that the glass hood and the light fixture isn't already
over-stressing it.. not very sturdy... I wish I had known about other tank
manufacturers other than AGA that doesn't have center brace for this size
tank... oh well). aside from that, the only space left on top would be
where I open the lid to feed fish... would using something like Flourish
Excel be better? I guess that just gets too expensive after a while... will
bottle under the tank with one-way check valve work instead of putting on
top? I assume this is some sort of yeast brew?

may be shutting out the sunlight completely for a week in the room will
clear the water :-P and not worry about CO2 :-P (one can always hope!). oh.
the tank doesn't get direct sunlight, but the room is pretty bright...
(large windows)

linda

Hi,

should I air-bubble it overnight? or just leave it sitting?

Either way, a couple of gallons should entirely outgas overnight,
particularly if you start with hot water.

ok. hot water.. will let you know how it turns out...

waaa :-( too much hardware... my tank is essentially free-standing, so
more tubes will not be easily routed, not to mention not much floor
space
left inside the tank...

Don't sweat it. A 2-liter juice bottle with an airline from the cap
straight to your powerhead, that's it. You can set the juice bottle on
top
of the tank. We'll talk about it later. How big is the tank?

tank is 37G (footprint is equivalent to 29G.. 30x12x22)..

hmm 2-liter soda bottle on top of tank? not sure about that one.. aside
from the aesthetics, given how flimsy the plastic center brace of the tank
is, I'd be a little hesitant to put more weight on top of it.. (I'm not
entirely convinced that the glass hood and the light fixture isn't already
over-stressing it.. not very sturdy... I wish I had known about other tank
manufacturers other than AGA that doesn't have center brace for this size
tank... oh well). aside from that, the only space left on top would be
where I open the lid to feed fish... would using something like Flourish
Excel be better? I guess that just gets too expensive after a while... will
bottle under the tank with one-way check valve work instead of putting on
top? I assume this is some sort of yeast brew?

may be shutting out the sunlight completely for a week in the room will
clear the water :-P and not worry about CO2 :-P (one can always hope!). oh.
the tank doesn't get direct sunlight, but the room is pretty bright...
(large windows)

linda

hi,

The stuff under the plates is only likely to be a problem if you shut off
the UGF without cleaning it out and develop a anaerobic environment (no
oxygen) that leads to H2S and trouble.

i've heard of this sulfur/sulfide toxin.. does anyone know how long will it
be ok before things start going anaerobic? (I'm thinking about several hours
worth of power failure.. not shutting it off on purpose) or is this one of
those YMMV thing...?

DIY CO2 is really simple. I just installed one, granted I don't have a
good
control on the injection rate, that goes in tomorrow, but It is working
water is fine. I just have to use a air bubbler to keep the CO2 level
from
going overboard. I've had plants grow over and inch in two days.

good to know... :-) I guess it will be more of a logistics thing for me..

my apongeton boivi.... whatever grows very fast too. probably several inches
in a day (will be a good competition with amaryllis bulb..).. the
references say 20inches.. I swear mine is over 40 inches long... seems like
it's growing too fast it's tearing itself and leaving holes...

linda