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  #31   Report Post  
Old 18-07-2003, 10:14 AM
Tzeentch
 
Posts: n/a
Default CO2 bubbles collecting in Nutrafin diffuser

Are you talking about the "Plant-Gro CO2 Natural System"? I bought one of
those yesterday and it's doing the exact same thing.
It's not elegant, but it's probably a good thing. Bubbles, while remaining
more or less stationary, get more time to disolve in the water, I guess.

Did you buy only the diffuser (bubble counter), or the whole setup? I
bought the whole set-up, but now I'm thinking I probably should have bought
only the diffuser (Bubble counter) and DIY the rest.

I don't know about you, but I was a bit disapointed by some part (of lack
thereof) of the kit. No check-valve? The tube seems made of vinyl(?)
instead of a better material like silicone.

"Andrey Tarasevich" wrote in message
...
I notice that instead of going all the way up CO2 bubbles are collecting

in my
new Hagen Nutrafin diffuser forming larger bubbles that just sit there all

the
time. I tried forcing them out of there but eventually they reappear.

Meanwhile,
I saw a working setup in my LFS and it didn't have any bubbles stuck in

it. I
also read somewhere on Google that this is normal for freshly installed
diffusers and eventually this issue will go away. Did anyone experience

this
problem with their Nutrafin diffusers? Will the diffuser eventually clear

up?
And if it will, what's the physics of this process? I.e. what exactly is

going
to change so that the diffuser will no longer trap and hold CO2 bubbles?




  #32   Report Post  
Old 18-07-2003, 10:14 AM
Paul Disdle
 
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Default CO2 bubbles collecting in Nutrafin diffuser

I bought one on saturday the whole kit and was told by my LFS this would
happen and this means better diffusion.

Paul


  #33   Report Post  
Old 18-07-2003, 10:14 AM
Philip Ash
 
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Default CO2 bubbles collecting in Nutrafin diffuser

Hi guys.
I have two of these and yes they do this to start with.
I am not sure exactly why, but it does go away after a period of time.
You actually see the point at which the bubbles stop, work its way up the
diffuser.

Phil.


--
Please remove the nospam. from the reply address.
"Paul Disdle" wrote in message
...
I bought one on saturday the whole kit and was told by my LFS this would
happen and this means better diffusion.

Paul




  #34   Report Post  
Old 18-07-2003, 10:15 AM
David Wee
 
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Default CO2 bubbles collecting in Nutrafin diffuser


I had the same problem with mine initially. It lasts for about a day or
so. I think the issue is that the plastic is so fresh it has certain
properties when not immersed, and neeeds time to "become one" with the
eventual slime that will coat it. Basically its a matter of "greasing" the
pipeline, and just leaving it in the tank will facilitate this (just dont
mess with it, it'll start going up the ramps without stopping).


In article ,
Andrey Tarasevich wrote:
Hello

I notice that instead of going all the way up CO2 bubbles are collecting in my
new Hagen Nutrafin diffuser forming larger bubbles that just sit there all the
time. I tried forcing them out of there but eventually they reappear. Meanwhile,
I saw a working setup in my LFS and it didn't have any bubbles stuck in it. I
also read somewhere on Google that this is normal for freshly installed
diffusers and eventually this issue will go away. Did anyone experience this
problem with their Nutrafin diffusers? Will the diffuser eventually clear up?
And if it will, what's the physics of this process? I.e. what exactly is going
to change so that the diffuser will no longer trap and hold CO2 bubbles?

--
Best regards,
Andrey Tarasevich



--
  #35   Report Post  
Old 18-07-2003, 10:15 AM
Andrey Tarasevich
 
Posts: n/a
Default CO2 bubbles collecting in Nutrafin diffuser

Tzeentch wrote:
Are you talking about the "Plant-Gro CO2 Natural System"? I bought one of
those yesterday and it's doing the exact same thing.
It's not elegant, but it's probably a good thing. Bubbles, while remaining
more or less stationary, get more time to disolve in the water, I guess.


That's what I think, too. However, sometimes one large bubble gets stuck at
the very bottom of the diffuser right next to the bubble-producing nozzle.
In this case almost every new bubble bounces off the large one, misses the
diffuser and shoots straight to the surface.

Did you buy only the diffuser (bubble counter), or the whole setup? I
bought the whole set-up, but now I'm thinking I probably should have bought
only the diffuser (Bubble counter) and DIY the rest.


Initially I wanted to by only the diffuser from one of the online stores.
But later I decided to go the faster way and bought the whole thing at LFS.
I don't regret it though. My tank is small (5.5 gal) and the whole thing
fits it pretty well.

BTW, according to the installation instructions, the nozzle can be attached
to the diffuser at three different points, deepening on the size of the
tank. The smaller is the tank - the higher the nozzle is supposed to be
attached. With my 5.5 I was supposed to go with the topmost (shallowest)
attachment point, but I ignored this recommendation and went with the
deepest one to give bubbles more travel time. Does anybody know what is the
importance of this recommendation in the installation instructions?

I don't know about you, but I was a bit disapointed by some part (of lack
thereof) of the kit. No check-valve?


Yeah. I bought one separately right away.

The tube seems made of vinyl(?)
instead of a better material like silicone.


Hmm... I thought I read it somewhere either in the installation instructions
or on the box that the tube is specifically suited for CO2 applications (or
something to that effect). Just some marketing BS?

--
Best regards,
Andrey Tarasevich



  #36   Report Post  
Old 18-07-2003, 10:15 AM
LeighMo
 
Posts: n/a
Default CO2 bubbles collecting in Nutrafin diffuser

The smaller is the tank - the higher the nozzle is supposed to be
attached. With my 5.5 I was supposed to go with the topmost (shallowest)
attachment point, but I ignored this recommendation and went with the
deepest one to give bubbles more travel time. Does anybody know what is the
importance of this recommendation in the installation instructions?


The deeper you put the diffuser, the more time the CO2 has to dissolve in the
water. More isn't always better with CO2. You can poison the fish. It's not
likely with DIY CO2 in a large tank, but with a 5.5 gallon tank, you have to be
careful. Measure your pH and KH, check the charts, and make sure you aren't
poisoning your fish.


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/
  #37   Report Post  
Old 18-07-2003, 10:15 AM
Eric Schreiber
 
Posts: n/a
Default CO2 bubbles collecting in Nutrafin diffuser

Andrey Tarasevich wrote:

I notice that instead of going all the way up CO2 bubbles are collecting in my
new Hagen Nutrafin diffuser forming larger bubbles that just sit there all the
time. I tried forcing them out of there but eventually they reappear. Meanwhile,
I saw a working setup in my LFS and it didn't have any bubbles stuck in it. I
also read somewhere on Google that this is normal for freshly installed
diffusers and eventually this issue will go away. Did anyone experience this
problem with their Nutrafin diffusers? Will the diffuser eventually clear up?
And if it will, what's the physics of this process? I.e. what exactly is going
to change so that the diffuser will no longer trap and hold CO2 bubbles?


Happened to me as well when I first installed my diffuser. After a few
days the bubbles started to travel the entire path.

I'd expect it's caused by some manufacturing residue, perhaps a mold
release compound used when the diffuser was made. You might try giving
it a thorough cleaning with hot water and a tooth brush, but that's
probably overkill.

Of course, you will have to clean the diffuser from time to time
anyway, as it will tend to collect a lot of debris. About once a week
I use a toothbrush on mine, followed by blasts from a turkey baster to
get the far side of it cleaned up. This keeps me from having to pull
the whole thing out (which is a lot more trouble than I generally want
to go through).

--
www.ericschreiber.com
  #38   Report Post  
Old 18-07-2003, 10:15 AM
Eric Schreiber
 
Posts: n/a
Default CO2 bubbles collecting in Nutrafin diffuser

Andrey Tarasevich wrote:

BTW, according to the installation instructions, the nozzle can be attached
to the diffuser at three different points, deepening on the size of the
tank. The smaller is the tank - the higher the nozzle is supposed to be
attached. With my 5.5 I was supposed to go with the topmost (shallowest)
attachment point, but I ignored this recommendation and went with the
deepest one to give bubbles more travel time. Does anybody know what is the
importance of this recommendation in the installation instructions?


Huh. Perhaps that's a design change, as I don't think mine has
multiple connection points - just the lowest one. If you had a really
consistent source of CO2 it might be worth playing with, but using
yeast based systems, you're going to get a lot of variability no
matter what, so I doubt that you'll get much mileage out of having
different connection points.

Best advice is probably to just hook it up and monitor water
conditions, and see if it needs adjusting.

The tube seems made of vinyl(?)
instead of a better material like silicone.


Hmm... I thought I read it somewhere either in the installation instructions
or on the box that the tube is specifically suited for CO2 applications (or
something to that effect). Just some marketing BS?


The tubing that came with mine was a textured pale green material,
which I assume is CO2 tolerant. But airline tubing is cheap, so even
if it should fail over time it's not a big deal to replace.

--
www.ericschreiber.com
  #39   Report Post  
Old 18-07-2003, 10:15 AM
Tzeentch
 
Posts: n/a
Default CO2 bubbles collecting in Nutrafin diffuser


That's what I think, too. However, sometimes one large bubble gets stuck

at
the very bottom of the diffuser right next to the bubble-producing nozzle.
In this case almost every new bubble bounces off the large one, misses the
diffuser and shoots straight to the surface.


Yeah, it seems to do that here too, except it doesn't do that very often, so
my guess is that it's not that big of an issue. Especially in your 5.5
gallon tank.

Initially I wanted to by only the diffuser from one of the online stores.
But later I decided to go the faster way and bought the whole thing at

LFS.
I don't regret it though. My tank is small (5.5 gal) and the whole thing
fits it pretty well.


That's what I did too, I was checking all the component necessary to DIY and
decided it was too much trouble. I think I'll still buy everything little
bit by little bit to set up a nice DIY with 2 bottles, Gas Separator,
Silicon (or Tygon if I can find some) tubing, and I'll keep the difuser
(bubble counter) and make some kind of a stand for all of this at the back
of my tank.

BTW, according to the installation instructions, the nozzle can be

attached
to the diffuser at three different points, deepening on the size of the
tank. The smaller is the tank - the higher the nozzle is supposed to be
attached. With my 5.5 I was supposed to go with the topmost (shallowest)
attachment point, but I ignored this recommendation and went with the
deepest one to give bubbles more travel time. Does anybody know what is

the
importance of this recommendation in the installation instructions?


Check your PH often, if it goes down too much set-it up the nozzle higher or
increase surface turbulence. Your fish most probably won't die from oxygen
depravation, but they might die of blood acidosis.

I don't know about you, but I was a bit disapointed by some part (of

lack
thereof) of the kit. No check-valve?


Yeah. I bought one separately right away.


Anybody know where I can buy CO2 specific check valves? Two different
hardware store don't have that, and the LFS don't either. What kind of
store should I be looking for? Any online place where I could buy that?

The tube seems made of vinyl(?)
instead of a better material like silicone.


Hmm... I thought I read it somewhere either in the installation

instructions
or on the box that the tube is specifically suited for CO2 applications

(or
something to that effect). Just some marketing BS?


It says, in the instruction "CO2-resistant Tubing -not affected by CO2
contact". But says nothing of what kind of material it's made of. I am
feeling a bit skeptical about the kind of tubing used, it does feel like
vinyl, but I might be wrong, please somebody correct me if I'm in error.


  #40   Report Post  
Old 18-07-2003, 10:15 AM
Eric Schreiber
 
Posts: n/a
Default CO2 bubbles collecting in Nutrafin diffuser

Eric Schreiber wrote:

Huh. Perhaps that's a design change, as I don't think mine has
multiple connection points - just the lowest one.


I'm wrong, mine does have multiple connection points. They're just so
caked in algae that I couldn't see them.

Time to do a removal and thorough cleaning of the diffuser, I expect.

--
www.ericschreiber.com


  #41   Report Post  
Old 18-07-2003, 10:15 AM
JEB
 
Posts: n/a
Default CO2 bubbles collecting in Nutrafin diffuser



Tzeentch wrote:
Anybody know where I can buy CO2 specific check valves?


here's the Cadillac:
http://www.floridadriftwood.com/prod...17&1=253&3=301
Feel free to pick your jaw back up off the ground after you check the price.

James

  #42   Report Post  
Old 18-07-2003, 10:16 AM
Ronaldo Jeremiah
 
Posts: n/a
Default CO2 bubbles collecting in Nutrafin diffuser

Andrey Tarasevich wrote in message ...
Hello

I notice that instead of going all the way up CO2 bubbles are collecting in my
new Hagen Nutrafin diffuser forming larger bubbles that just sit there all the
time. I tried forcing them out of there but eventually they reappear. Meanwhile,
I saw a working setup in my LFS and it didn't have any bubbles stuck in it. I
also read somewhere on Google that this is normal for freshly installed
diffusers and eventually this issue will go away. Did anyone experience this
problem with their Nutrafin diffusers? Will the diffuser eventually clear up?
And if it will, what's the physics of this process? I.e. what exactly is going
to change so that the diffuser will no longer trap and hold CO2 bubbles?


I've got one of these two. I think it's great, and I'm totally
satisfied with it. As other have noted, the bubbles will begin to
travel properly on their own after a while.

My question is this: What is the stabilizer? I know that the
activator is yeast, and I suspect that the stabilizer works by somehow
regulating the pH in the yeast/sugar/water mix, but even if I am right
about that I don't know what it is. If I knew what it was, I could
probably buy it much cheaper in bulk, since a three-pack of activator
and stabilizer is about $8! I know the yeast should cost next to
nothing.

Anyone know what the stabilizer is, or want to take an educated guess?

-RJ
  #43   Report Post  
Old 18-07-2003, 10:16 AM
Zach987987987
 
Posts: n/a
Default CO2 bubbles collecting in Nutrafin diffuser

simple baking soda,
I have the system as well but it was so hard to find refill packages of the
powder I went to just the old yeast and sugar with a little baking soda to
regualte the reaction, just mix it as the instructions said with their mix and
your off
My question is this: What is the stabilizer? I know that the
activator is yeast, and I suspect that the stabilizer works by somehow
regulating the pH in the yeast/sugar/water mix, but even if I am right
about that I don't know what it is. If I knew what it was, I could
probably buy it much cheaper in bulk, since a three-pack of activator
and stabilizer is about $8! I know the yeast should cost next to
nothing.

Anyone know what the stabilizer is, or want to take an educated guess?

-RJ









  #44   Report Post  
Old 18-07-2003, 10:16 AM
Tzeentch
 
Posts: n/a
Default CO2 bubbles collecting in Nutrafin diffuser

Some people speculated that it's probably baking soda (Sodium Bicarbonate),
probaly since it can be used as a pretty good buffer. That's just
speculation though and I haven't seen anybody being positive on whatever is
in that packet.

"Ronaldo Jeremiah" wrote in message
om...

I've got one of these two. I think it's great, and I'm totally
satisfied with it. As other have noted, the bubbles will begin to
travel properly on their own after a while.

My question is this: What is the stabilizer? I know that the
activator is yeast, and I suspect that the stabilizer works by somehow
regulating the pH in the yeast/sugar/water mix, but even if I am right
about that I don't know what it is. If I knew what it was, I could
probably buy it much cheaper in bulk, since a three-pack of activator
and stabilizer is about $8! I know the yeast should cost next to
nothing.

Anyone know what the stabilizer is, or want to take an educated guess?

-RJ



  #45   Report Post  
Old 18-07-2003, 10:16 AM
Ron Nelson
 
Posts: n/a
Default CO2 bubbles collecting in Nutrafin diffuser

If one wanted to get a better idea as to the contents of the stabilizer,
couldn't you measure out the same amounts of it and of baking soda and put
them in two identical sized containers of water that have been tested for KH
before, then check the KH after adding? At least then you might have a
better idea wouldn't you?

Ron

"Tzeentch" wrote in message
...
Some people speculated that it's probably baking soda (Sodium

Bicarbonate),
probaly since it can be used as a pretty good buffer. That's just
speculation though and I haven't seen anybody being positive on whatever

is
in that packet.

"Ronaldo Jeremiah" wrote in message
om...

I've got one of these two. I think it's great, and I'm totally
satisfied with it. As other have noted, the bubbles will begin to
travel properly on their own after a while.

My question is this: What is the stabilizer? I know that the
activator is yeast, and I suspect that the stabilizer works by somehow
regulating the pH in the yeast/sugar/water mix, but even if I am right
about that I don't know what it is. If I knew what it was, I could
probably buy it much cheaper in bulk, since a three-pack of activator
and stabilizer is about $8! I know the yeast should cost next to
nothing.

Anyone know what the stabilizer is, or want to take an educated guess?

-RJ







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