(Robert H) wrote in message . com...
I remember the letter I got from your credit card company where you
claimed you never recieved your order. Doesn't say anything about
pictures. Did you try that on the other company you "had trouble" with
too? How many others? I'm glad you have found someone who makes you
happy. Thats the great thing about the internet. There's always
someone for everyone. You should buy from Mark, I am sure he would
love to work with you. He has great plants, good prices too. I'll even
put in a good word for you to him. You should come to my forums
Nikolay. I'll even make you a moderator. I'm sure my 800 members would
be very impressed with your vast knowledge and experience about
plants.



Robert,

Thank you for finally spelling my name correctly/

But there is something else you did not get right:
One more time:

1. I have NEVER ordered a CO2 system from you.
2. I have NEVER talked to my credit company about an undelivered
order. Be it plants or any other merchandise from any other company.

Can you comprehend what I am saying?

You cannot remember anythting of what you are saying because it simply
did NOT happen. Don't you keep documentation ? I already told you to
refer to it, but you can't because it doesn't exist.

(ONCE and only once I ordered plants (NOT a CO2 system) from you.
After 3 weeks of waiting and 4 phone calls (every time talking
personally with you) I received a clump of rotten plants. They were
sent at the wrong address despite me and you confirming 3 times that
my billing address is different than the shipping address.
I sent you pictures of the rotten plants.
All you said in one final e-mail was (literal quote): "they look fine
to me".
There was no punctuation, you did not address me by name, you did not
even put your name under that short line.
I NEVER disputed any charges on my credit card.
$80 down the drain.)

I don't judge you. I am not questioning your knowledge about aquatic
plants (although your own tanks look simply put pathetic).

Haha! "800 members"! About 20 regular members visit "your" forum,
from what I can remember and probably see right now. And they are
only people that you "like". No one is allowed to say anything about
your questonable practices on "your own" forum. Posts like "What
online aquatic plant company is reliable?" are cleaned of all
references to any company other than yours.

I suggest you stop worrying about me.
As I said - I will never order from you.
I don't try to convince anyone to not order from you. I just share my
experience. If it was great I'd have said so.

--Nikolay

Haha! "800 members"! About 20 regular members visit "your" forum,
from what I can remember and probably see right now. And they are
only people that you "like". No one is allowed to say anything about
your questonable practices on "your own" forum. Posts like "What
online aquatic plant company is reliable?" are cleaned of all
references to any company other than yours.

That simply is not true. I post there and am not any kind of personal
buddy of Robert. In fact I posted before I ever was a customer. Also,
just last week there was a thread with someone asking for other vendors
and it wasn't deleted. Robert also allows posts fro free clippings,
trades, etc.


I suggest you stop worrying about me.
As I said - I will never order from you.
I don't try to convince anyone to not order from you. I just share my
experience. If it was great I'd have said so.

While I have no problems sharing an opinion about a vendor, don't you
know it's a serious breech of manners to post around emails of others?
Please be a gentleman and keep your personal correspondence personal.
Posting a simple summary of your opinion and/or situation would suffice.

Bob Alston wrote:

Sherry -

didn't you just do what you admonished the earlier poster not to do?

Bob


No. Nikolay chose to post *his own* comments here and I replied to them.
I did not take email that was sent to me alone and post it without his
permission. That's the difference.


--
Sherry Michael Weller

Isn't it funny how a story can change depending on what they are
defending???

Seems like we're all going to learn something from this fiasco...


to think there is two of you. Point is you demanded a full refund...
not a partial one, not to have the plants replaced but a full refund.

So you agree now that the order was for plants and not a CO2 system?


--
Victor M. Martinez

http://www.che.utexas.edu/~martiv

) wrote in message . com...
wrote in message ...
On Sun, 8 Jun 2003 23:26:24,
) wrote:

If you have a problem, see what they will do for you about it.

Oh, I tried.

If you are still not satistfied with reasonable efforts, then don't
buy from them again.

I'm not about to do so.

There's hits for poor plants for about every vendor that's done
this for more than a few years.

This episode went beyond 'poor plants'. Also, I find it unlikely that what
happened to these plants happened in the few days they were in transit
during mild weather.

Trades also are good and buying from your local aquarium society is
perhaps the best.

I've purchased fine plants from local shops. I buy online when the locals
don't have what that I'm looking for at the moment.


Cindy

Then you are in the right. I'd feel the same way.
I've been burnt and will not order from some places either.
Service really is the main issue that can take care of the customer's
issues even if they get a bag full of mush. I'd just send them a bag
replacement for free. The customer would feel wanted/loved:-) and they
would know you'd take care of them in the future. Plants are cheap,
paying customers are very important.
I'm not this person but that's what I'd do.

Regards,
Tom Barr

Its real easy to make generalizations Tom. You have sent ME plants 3
times, and twice half of them were dead on arrival. I've gotten plants
several times from Aquabid from hobbyists that were not in good shape.
I spent $50 for a bag of Riccia from a well known hobbyist from
Aquabid in hopes I could use it to grow a large enough supply to sell
it since the plant is near impossible to buy commercially, and it
arrived in very poor condition.

I send out 40 to 50 orders a week and I get 6 or so people a MONTH
complaining of the condition of the plants. Thats 6 out of 200. Out of
those six I often have one or two people who appear totally
unreasonable in how they want it resolved. Now perhaps I do need to
take this more seriously. My first response is to tell people what the
stated policy is on my WEB site. Then I
offer some way to resolve the situation. For some people this is not
good enough.

Should I make a greater effort to make sure these people are happy
regardless of the cost? Should I just write it off? What would you do?
I have been doing this since 1999 and it is always a constant battle
to deal with this issue to keep the loss of damaged plants at an
absolute minimum. Now I have many, many loyal customers that have
bought from me continously over the years. They know they will be well
taken care of. This is what has kept my business growing. Every
quarter my business has doubled. But I can not have first time
customers turned away from a bad experience and continue to grow,
regardless of the reason or how unjustified. I have always strongly
been a advocate of this hobby and gone to great lengths to provide
eduation. Thats what my whole WEB site is about. But I guess I am now
realizing that is not good enough.

So I will examin this very closely and try to determin a policy that
protects the customer and will make them feel like they can buy from
Aqua Botanic with trust and confidence so that even the most demanding
newbie will feel satisfied.

Robert

I never asked you for the plants, you just sent them to me. And
of course I never complained to you about them. They were free! My
point was even plants from you, the great Tom Barr can arrive in the
mail as mush. And thats what they were was mush

Ok, I know I'm budding in here, but this bugs me...

why would anyone send you plants that you didn't ask for? because they just
woke up that morning and said, "As soon as I get done with my cheerios, I
think I'll send Robert at aquabotanic some plants... what the hell???"

I never have done business with you, and after hearing all your flip
flopping on stories, I think I've made up my mind that I will NOT do
business with someone who changes stories to suit their needs, sells plants
given to them for profit without ever giving proper compensation. Secondly,
it's better business to allow the customer to be right, even when you know
you are right, when it's gonna cost you, and when it puts you out... why???
Customers are supposed to be right.... Seems like that may have been
forgotten in your recent past... And as a consumer, hearing you in a
public forum throwing out information like stones, you're not really sure
who you are hitting, but I can tell you this... I got hit by one of your
proverbial stones, and on that stone was written, " Go where there are no
waves, avoid aquabotanic and be happy "

I think I'll take that advice..... Sorry for butting in and sticking my
nose in someone else's busines....

(Robert H) wrote in message . com...
Point No#1
Have I ever recieved any form of compensation for the above said
plants?
Answer: no

Point no#2
Have I ever ordered from you?
Answer : no bla bla bla

Tom, I think you missed my point. I was not ragging on you. You sent
me plants that you offered to give me, and I WAS gratefull to have
them. I never asked you for the plants, you just sent them to me. And
of course I never complained to you about them. They were free! My
point was even plants from you, the great Tom Barr can arrive in the
mail as mush. And thats what they were was mush

Why did you bring it up at all, like I sent you mostly rotting plants
then?
How come several folks I know bought a fair amount of plants from you
that were mine? Then you complain about FREE plants that I sent?
Why bring my name into it at all?
Example:

"**Anyone** can get mushy plants due to excess heat in transit "

But if you want to get freakin personal Tom, do you want me to talk
about our business realtionship in public?

Ummm.....correct ME here IF I am wrong, but _you_ brought our past
dealings concerning some plant shipments into this public thread.
_You_ got personal with me about this and you brought it up and went
there. Quit blaming me for your own actions and being retalitory.

You also brought up the other customers personal info here as well.
Both cases would have violated _any_ customer service policy I know
of.

Now you threaten me about talking of a past UNRELATED business
relationship with the now defunct SPD? Remember, I don't own a
business, you do and this is another issue unrelated to shipping mushy
plants.
If you think airing dirty laundry of the past helps your own business,
I'll tell you, it does not.

So
don't lecture me. Jesus Christ. Bob was right about you. You have a
hell of a lot of nerve.

Well I think the above rant and reference to "Bob" needs no further
comment.

You are the last person I expected this from. You have pretty much
killed my idea here...but what the hell...this is the plan I came up
with.

Well, actually, you kill it yourself with your comments to me and they
tell far more than just airing the issue publicly with Nikolay, a past
customer.

Both counts hurt only you, not me or Nikolay.
I hope you can see this.

I hope people find this fair and just. I was going to ask you Tom for
your input, but now I don't give a F

Yes, I got the email nastygram already, nice to see you can spell four
letter words. I hope you "give a F" for your customers. Right now you
are simply shooting yourself in the foot. If you act this way to me
and Nikolay in public, how likely will this happen with the customers
in private? Will they get nastygrams if they have an issue?

Will you air their dirty laundry should they be unsatistifed or say
something you dissapprove of like you have done here?

Is this your "new" Good Service?

I hope you can come to terms with this behavior and change it. It
will improve your service and your business.

This flame has gone on long enough. I will not respond again to the
issue.

Regards,
Tom Barr

Robert

Robert,

I have said that at least 2 times already:
---------------------------------------------------------
I have NOT ordered ANY kind of a CO2 system from you. Ever.
---------------------------------------------------------

I'm very interested to see the invoice that you have.
I know it can NOT be real.

To start - I'd appreciate it if you tell me what is the exact date
when you have charged my credit card for a CO2 system.
That will allow me to check my credit card records. From there things
will go one of 2 ways:

1. If there is indeed a charge as you claim I will ask you to send me
the actual paper invoice that you claim to have.

2. If there is no charge (since as you claim I have disputed the
charge with my credit company) I'd still ask you to send me the actual
paper invoice that you claim to have.

If I actually receive the invoice that you claim to have I will call
my credit company. I will ask them to to retrieve the record that
could show that there was a dispute about that particular transaction.
I used to work in a bank and a bank keeps records for every, even the
smallest detail about a transaction. They would certainly have a
record of a cancelation that you claim I have done. Such record does
not exist and you, Robert, CANNOT do anything about it.

I will then have no other choice:
I will have to consult my lawyer about what is the best way to go
about a company that receives an order from a client and then charges
their credit card for other orders not placed by the customer.

--Nikolay

There is no private e-mail that I have posted here.

I'm very anal about how I say things and what I post.
I do NOT want to see this newsgroup turning into a hostile place.

It may seem strange but if one reads my posts in this thread they will
see that I have not insulted Robert in any way. In fact months ago I
was glad to hear that people had good experiences with his company.
It made me feel that things are not as bad as I used to think they
are.

I keep my respect to others and that includes people that I critisize.

I'm after an objective, true image of the companies we deal with.
That is all.

Posting a personal e-mail is totally out of the question for me.
I don't know what Sherry is referring to. I just posted asking her to
explain, may be she clarify, I don't know.

--Nikolay

Mid-posted:

"nikolay_kraltchev" wrote in message
om...
There is no private e-mail that I have posted here.

I'm very anal about how I say things and what I post.
I do NOT want to see this newsgroup turning into a hostile place.

too late...



It may seem strange but if one reads my posts in this thread they will
see that I have not insulted Robert in any way. In fact months ago I
was glad to hear that people had good experiences with his company.
It made me feel that things are not as bad as I used to think they
are.

I keep my respect to others and that includes people that I critisize.

I'm after an objective, true image of the companies we deal with.
That is all.

Posting a personal e-mail is totally out of the question for me.
I don't know what Sherry is referring to. I just posted asking her to
explain, may be she clarify, I don't know.

--Nikolay