I have a real problem with what I consider to be Dirt or sludge in the tank.

The substance is brown, forms in globules often very very small ones, and
builds up on all my plants. The plants are normally caked in the stuff
(normally at the top and sides where the flow is directed - but is does form
everywhere). I have resorted to hitting the plants with a net or other tool
which puts it all back in the water and hopefully the mini Eheim-filter that
I have in the tank will take it all out. The main Eheim filter is next to
useless as its not removing the dirt at all - this is just acting as a
biological filter.

Last week I made a 150L water change of a 250L tank, most of what was left
was gravel with just enough water for the fish. I made sure the debris was
distributed in the water - and then sucked it all out - replacing with new
conditioned tap water. I then cleaned the whole filter unit. In one day
only, the plants were caked in the brown stuff again. I then changed just
50L using the syphon directed onto the plants to remove it directly. The
next day, the plants were caked again. And so on......Has anyone else had
this problem and can tell me what is causing it?

I am really ****ed off! It's causing an otherwise nice'ish tank to look
grubby and unclean.

The mini-Eheim filter that is inside the tank (as I suspect this is the only
filter taking out this stuff) is caked and requires cleaning daily. It's
just a sponge and floss filter with lots of holes for debris to go through,
which I clean in tap water - its not the main biological filter.

I have a large piece of newish bogwood in the tank but this has been
happening before I put that in. My chemistry is all OK. I have a flourite
substrate which does get disturbed quite a bit by the Bristlenose Plec, and
when I plant. In the filter I have normal blue foam and a white floss at the
top, I have a mechanical filter at the base and a bag of volcanic rock for
the dear little microbes. I also have a small bag of PhosZorb in there as
well. Sometime ago I removed the carbon filter but cannot equate this
problem to that time.

I doubt whether it is the filter itself breaking down as my ammonia and
nitrite would be high and instead they are zero. Some time ago, however, I
did add some chemical called sludge buster because of this very problem - it
says it puts enzymes and microbes into the soil to help break down
(anaerobically) debris such as rotting plants and food etc. However, if this
is causing it then I would have assumed that the virtually 100% water change
would have got rid of that.

Sorry this is long.......Please help - I'm exhausted and going to chuck it
all in soon......The big "**** it!" is well past its sell by date.

Martin

"Martin" wrote in message
...
I have a real problem with what I consider to be Dirt or sludge in the
tank.

The substance is brown, forms in globules often very very small ones, and
builds up on all my plants. The plants are normally caked in the stuff
(normally at the top and sides where the flow is directed - but is does
form
everywhere). I have resorted to hitting the plants with a net or other
tool
which puts it all back in the water and hopefully the mini Eheim-filter
that
I have in the tank will take it all out. The main Eheim filter is next to
useless as its not removing the dirt at all - this is just acting as a
biological filter.

I've never had such a severe problem myself, but I have a couple of ideas on
what might be going on. First, there might not be enough circulation in the
tank. There should be enough circulation so that this stuff remains in the
water column and gets picked up by the filter. Maybe the outlet from your
Eheim is not positioned in a way that provides circulation throughout the
entire tank. I used to have stuff settle on all surfaces in my tank a long
time ago when I was only using a UGF. Second, are you vacuuming the
substrate with each water change and are you doing water changes at least
every week? If your substrate gets saturated by this material, then any
minor disturbances will stir it up into the water column and cause it to
settle on the plants. It also sounds like you might have black beard algae
on your plants. The algae makes the plant surface less smooth, which makes
this organic material stick more easily to the plants. In my tank, the
leaves that are covered with BBA always have more of this stuff on them then
healthy leaves.
__
Alex
pcalex (at) hotpop.com

Yes Alex, you are right about the algae - there is a lot of it on the plants
and its bright green (hair like) but again the PO4 is low and the nitrate is
also very low. I suspect that my maximum lighting is not good
enough.....perhaps I should stop CO2 injection as I doubt it is doing any
good at the moment.

I do vacuum the gravel when I perform the water change and I also vacuum the
debris off the plants as well. The next morning its all back. I have stopped
everything now......Gravel cleaning, disturbing the gravel and I am going to
leave it for the weekend and see how bad it gets......Then perhaps another
150L water change on Monday when I will leave the pumps off for a few days
to see what happens.
If it is back with no pumping then it must be something other than just
dirt!

The circulation is twice that recommended for my tank volume - but again the
part of the filter that's taking the water into the canister is small in
comparison and I have noticed (when the tank was not so full of plants) that
the detritus was never sucked into the filter with any force at all - often
it just sailed past it. Though the return jet is quite powerful.

This is all leading me to the conclusion that Eheim filters are crap! and
useless.

My tank is a an Effect Line and there is only one place for in/out tubes and
that's at the top left. So the inlet is at the top about 1/3 way across and
pointing horizontal (under the surface with minimal surface agitation). The
outlet is towards the bottom (at the back and midway in the tank), it is
only about 3" long 1" diameter. Water is moved to hit the far side (right
side) around the side and then back along the front - it moves down in doing
this as well.

Well that's the explanation
Martin

"Martin" wrote in message
...
Yes Alex, you are right about the algae - there is a lot of it on the
plants
and its bright green (hair like) but again the PO4 is low and the nitrate
is
also very low. I suspect that my maximum lighting is not good
enough.....perhaps I should stop CO2 injection as I doubt it is doing any
good at the moment.

Well, now it's obvious why you have algae. What you're suggesting,
increasing lighting and stopping CO2, will certainly make it worse. I think
the aglae contributes to the sludge on the plants by acting as a hook for
floating debris. At the very least, you need to increase the PO4 and NO3 in
your tank and probably the micronutrients and CO2. Get the phosphate filter
out of there. They are useless in planted tanks. That will make the plants
grow faster and outcompete the algae. But that's a whole another topic.

I do vacuum the gravel when I perform the water change and I also vacuum
the
debris off the plants as well. The next morning its all back. I have
stopped
everything now......Gravel cleaning, disturbing the gravel and I am going
to
leave it for the weekend and see how bad it gets......Then perhaps another
150L water change on Monday when I will leave the pumps off for a few days
to see what happens.
If it is back with no pumping then it must be something other than just
dirt!

I don't know about stopping the pumps. I don't see how that will solve the
problem. My guess is that for some reason there is not enough flow in the
tank. If you can dislodge the dirt from the plants by nudging them a little,
then it seems that the flow from your Eheim should be enough to knock it off
and keep it floating. Maybe the filter or the intake pipe is clogged.

This is all leading me to the conclusion that Eheim filters are crap! and
useless.

I really doubt it. I don't use one, but I have heard only good things about
them.

My tank is a an Effect Line and there is only one place for in/out tubes
and
that's at the top left. So the inlet is at the top about 1/3 way across
and
pointing horizontal (under the surface with minimal surface agitation).
The
outlet is towards the bottom (at the back and midway in the tank), it is
only about 3" long 1" diameter. Water is moved to hit the far side (right
side) around the side and then back along the front - it moves down in
doing
this as well.

I don't know how canister filters are supposed to be set up, but hang-on
power filters are arranged in the opposite way: the intake is at the bottom
of the tank and the outlet is at the top, releasing the water horizontally
so that it flows in a cycle. Both are on the same wall. Maybe you could use
a powerhead for extra water movement. That's all I can think of now.
__
Alex
pcalex (at) hotpop.com