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Old 18-06-2003, 10:44 PM
Andrey Tarasevich
 
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Default AP's "Algae-Destroyer " and plants

Hello

According to the user's guides included with almost any algae-fighting
product on the market, it should not be used in planted tanks. However,
Aquarium Pharmaceuticals "Algae-Destroyer"'s is an exception: its label does
not say anything of that nature. Moreover, 'faq.thekrib.com' says that it
can be used to fight beard algae, which, according to the site, grows on
plant's leaves (see http://faq.thekrib.com/algae.html#beard). Does that mean
that AP's "Algae-Destroyer" can be successfully used in a planted tank?

--
Best regards,
Andrey Tarasevich


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Old 19-06-2003, 12:20 AM
Alex R
 
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Default AP's "Algae-Destroyer " and plants

"Andrey Tarasevich" wrote in message
...
Hello

According to the user's guides included with almost any algae-fighting
product on the market, it should not be used in planted tanks. However,
Aquarium Pharmaceuticals "Algae-Destroyer"'s is an exception: its label

does
not say anything of that nature. Moreover, 'faq.thekrib.com' says that it
can be used to fight beard algae, which, according to the site, grows on
plant's leaves (see http://faq.thekrib.com/algae.html#beard). Does that

mean
that AP's "Algae-Destroyer" can be successfully used in a planted tank?

--
Best regards,
Andrey Tarasevich


I doubt you can use this product in a planted tank, at least not in the long
term. Even if it does kill your algae and not your plants, the algae will
come back as soon as you stop using it if you don't improve the conditions
for your plants. So you're going to have to keep using it until eventually
your plants will die. Algae is a plant also. Further, I have never heard of
anyone being successful with an algae-cide product in a planted tank. I
think what it does is prevent algae from growing, not kill it, if it works
at all.

To control algae, you need to optimize your plant growth using whatever it
takes... more CO2, more macro- and micro-nutrients, etc. Your algae is
growing because there is something limiting your plants. Keep all nutrients
in abundance, and your algae will stop spreading and you'll eventually get
rid of it through pruning of old plants.
__
Alex
pcalex (at) hotpop.com


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Old 19-06-2003, 04:08 AM
 
Posts: n/a
Default AP's "Algae-Destroyer " and plants

Andrey Tarasevich wrote in message ...
Hello

According to the user's guides included with almost any algae-fighting
product on the market, it should not be used in planted tanks. However,
Aquarium Pharmaceuticals "Algae-Destroyer"'s is an exception: its label does
not say anything of that nature. Moreover, 'faq.thekrib.com' says that it
can be used to fight beard algae, which, according to the site, grows on
plant's leaves (see http://faq.thekrib.com/algae.html#beard). Does that mean
that AP's "Algae-Destroyer" can be successfully used in a planted tank?


Is your goal to grow nice healthy plants?
Focus on that, not killing algae.

To put it another way: will adding this improve plant growth? Yes? No?
If not, why would you add this then? Is this a "Plant Tank" or a "Kill
Algae tank"?

Universally folks report healthy good plant growth is the best
deterrent for algae and this is the goal with a planted tank. Healthy
plants.
When the plants do not grow well, they become a nutrient sink and
substrate for algae to grow on.
If plant growth is not addressed in some manner, the algae will keep
coming back after each time you kill it.

If the plants are not growing , algae will.

FYI, about every 2-6months someone on some board list etc post
something along the lines you have about an algicide/cure etc.
But poor plant growth the main cause for algae so unless it addresses
that basic tenent, the product will not help.

Regards
Tom Barr
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Old 19-06-2003, 06:22 AM
Andrey Tarasevich
 
Posts: n/a
Default AP's "Algae-Destroyer " and plants

wrote:

According to the user's guides included with almost any algae-fighting
product on the market, it should not be used in planted tanks. However,
Aquarium Pharmaceuticals "Algae-Destroyer"'s is an exception: its label does
not say anything of that nature. Moreover, 'faq.thekrib.com' says that it
can be used to fight beard algae, which, according to the site, grows on
plant's leaves (see
http://faq.thekrib.com/algae.html#beard). Does that mean
that AP's "Algae-Destroyer" can be successfully used in a planted tank?


Is your goal to grow nice healthy plants?
Focus on that, not killing algae.


My question is not about what I have to focus on. I know prefectly well what I
need to do in order to keep my plants healty. I have no algae problem in my tank
and I have abosolutely no intent to use any algae killing substances in the
tank. I asked the question out of pure curiosuty, since I was surprised by the
fact that the aformentioned product's package bears no warnings about using it
in a planted tank. Moreover, a respected aquarium site seems to suggest the use
of this product in a planted tank.

...
FYI, about every 2-6months someone on some board list etc post
something along the lines you have about an algicide/cure etc.
But poor plant growth the main cause for algae so unless it addresses
that basic tenent, the product will not help.
...


Yes, I noticed that. Unfortunately, every time someone asks someting like that,
the tiny bits of relevant information are accompanied and drowned by a huge wave
of irrelevant advice.

--
Best regards,
Andrey Tarasevich

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Old 20-06-2003, 02:08 AM
[email protected]
 
Posts: n/a
Default AP's "Algae-Destroyer " and plants

Andrey Tarasevich wrote in message

According to the user's guides included with almost any algae-fighting
product on the market, it should not be used in planted tanks. However,
Aquarium Pharmaceuticals "Algae-Destroyer"'s is an exception: its label does
not say anything of that nature. Moreover, 'faq.thekrib.com' says that it
can be used to fight beard algae, which, according to the site, grows on
plant's leaves (see http://faq.thekrib.com/algae.html#beard). Does that mean
that AP's "Algae-Destroyer" can be successfully used in a planted tank?


Is your goal to grow nice healthy plants?
Focus on that, not killing algae.


My question is not about what I have to focus on. I know prefectly well what I
need to do in order to keep my plants healty. I have no algae problem in my tank
and I have abosolutely no intent to use any algae killing substances in the
tank. I asked the question out of pure curiosuty, since I was surprised by the
fact that the aformentioned product's package bears no warnings about using it
in a planted tank. Moreover, a respected aquarium site seems to suggest the use
of this product in a planted tank.


You can use copper sulfate in an aquarium or H2O2 as well if you keep
good tabs on the concentration levels(Some plants don't respond well,
some such as crypts do pretty good with CuSO4 etc), but any algicides
in excess will generally kill most plants. You can turn off the lights
for a few days to kill algae. There are lots of things folks can do to
get rid of algae and most of them don't cost a penny. Pruning and
blackouts are pretty good and cheap.
The Krib has old stuff from back when algae and growing plants was
still a mystery to most. I've used most everything in the past years
to kill/outwit and other wise harass algae. It's not about the algae,
it's about the plants.
Neil Frank and I went a few rounds over the algicide approach that he
favored some years ago on the issue of snake oil cures for plant
tanks.

There's still many respected sites that claim erronously that high
levels of PO4 cause algae outbreaks/blooms etc in FW plant tanks.
I proved this to quite untrue some years back.

Products like these algicides prey on frustrated folks that have
algae on their plants. They don't address the basic problem of why
there's algae in the first place.

It's a pet peeve of mine since it sends the newbie down the wrong path
of having a good planted tank with no/little algae.

Like a drug , add too much and kill the patient, add too little and it
doesn't kill the disease.

Is there some angle that will help everyone keep a better planted tank
if we investigate each algicide? No, I really think that type of
hoodoo is what keeps folks trying these snake oils. "Maybe it works,
We really don't know unless we try it".

Iv'e tried perhaps 12-15 different algicides over the years and put
most through a pretty good test. None to date has worked in controlled
tank where I kept close tabs on the nutrients/CO2.

My research focuses on algal periphyton on aquatic plants (Vals and
Sag's) and natural substrates.

One device that did hold promise: Ultrasonic algae control, doesn't
kill plants, killls the planktonic and after a week or two more, the
filamentous algae.

They should be able to modify the Fogging units they sell for those
cloud forest frog tanks etc that run about 40$ for an aquarium to kill
algae.

All the info is there, has been for awhile, just no one has done it
yet.

That would be a decent device but it still will not make your plant
grow.
It would also be more effective and cheaper than a UV and could also
be used in some marine applications etc

Regards,
Tom Barr


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Old 23-06-2003, 01:20 PM
Simon
 
Posts: n/a
Default "Algae-Destroyer " and plants

I started my first planted tank 10 months ago. As with many beginners, I
have gone through numerous algae problems. Initially, I adopted the
nitrate/phosphate removal and algae destroyer approach, but the outcome were
demoralizing. Fortunately, I also came across Tom's various email messages
on "focusing on plants". I started dosing N-P-K and trace. The results were
amazing.
I take this opportunity to thank various people on their helpful advices in
this and other newsgroups.

" wrote in message
om...
Andrey Tarasevich wrote in message

According to the user's guides included with almost any

algae-fighting
product on the market, it should not be used in planted tanks.

However,
Aquarium Pharmaceuticals "Algae-Destroyer"'s is an exception: its

label does
not say anything of that nature. Moreover, 'faq.thekrib.com' says

that it
can be used to fight beard algae, which, according to the site, grows

on
plant's leaves (see http://faq.thekrib.com/algae.html#beard). Does

that mean
that AP's "Algae-Destroyer" can be successfully used in a planted

tank?

Is your goal to grow nice healthy plants?
Focus on that, not killing algae.


My question is not about what I have to focus on. I know prefectly well

what I
need to do in order to keep my plants healty. I have no algae problem in

my tank
and I have abosolutely no intent to use any algae killing substances in

the
tank. I asked the question out of pure curiosuty, since I was surprised

by the
fact that the aformentioned product's package bears no warnings about

using it
in a planted tank. Moreover, a respected aquarium site seems to suggest

the use
of this product in a planted tank.


You can use copper sulfate in an aquarium or H2O2 as well if you keep
good tabs on the concentration levels(Some plants don't respond well,
some such as crypts do pretty good with CuSO4 etc), but any algicides
in excess will generally kill most plants. You can turn off the lights
for a few days to kill algae. There are lots of things folks can do to
get rid of algae and most of them don't cost a penny. Pruning and
blackouts are pretty good and cheap.
The Krib has old stuff from back when algae and growing plants was
still a mystery to most. I've used most everything in the past years
to kill/outwit and other wise harass algae. It's not about the algae,
it's about the plants.
Neil Frank and I went a few rounds over the algicide approach that he
favored some years ago on the issue of snake oil cures for plant
tanks.

There's still many respected sites that claim erronously that high
levels of PO4 cause algae outbreaks/blooms etc in FW plant tanks.
I proved this to quite untrue some years back.

Products like these algicides prey on frustrated folks that have
algae on their plants. They don't address the basic problem of why
there's algae in the first place.

It's a pet peeve of mine since it sends the newbie down the wrong path
of having a good planted tank with no/little algae.

Like a drug , add too much and kill the patient, add too little and it
doesn't kill the disease.

Is there some angle that will help everyone keep a better planted tank
if we investigate each algicide? No, I really think that type of
hoodoo is what keeps folks trying these snake oils. "Maybe it works,
We really don't know unless we try it".

Iv'e tried perhaps 12-15 different algicides over the years and put
most through a pretty good test. None to date has worked in controlled
tank where I kept close tabs on the nutrients/CO2.

My research focuses on algal periphyton on aquatic plants (Vals and
Sag's) and natural substrates.

One device that did hold promise: Ultrasonic algae control, doesn't
kill plants, killls the planktonic and after a week or two more, the
filamentous algae.

They should be able to modify the Fogging units they sell for those
cloud forest frog tanks etc that run about 40$ for an aquarium to kill
algae.

All the info is there, has been for awhile, just no one has done it
yet.

That would be a decent device but it still will not make your plant
grow.
It would also be more effective and cheaper than a UV and could also
be used in some marine applications etc

Regards,
Tom Barr



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Old 24-06-2003, 03:56 AM
[email protected]
 
Posts: n/a
Default "Algae-Destroyer " and plants

"Simon" wrote in message ...
I started my first planted tank 10 months ago. As with many beginners, I
have gone through numerous algae problems. Initially, I adopted the
nitrate/phosphate removal and algae destroyer approach, but the outcome were
demoralizing. Fortunately, I also came across Tom's various email messages
on "focusing on plants". I started dosing N-P-K and trace. The results were
amazing.
I take this opportunity to thank various people on their helpful advices in
this and other newsgroups.


Good, another one saved! Now get good at plants then folks will ask
you for help and return the favor.

Regards,
Tom Barr


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