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Old 28-06-2003, 11:13 PM
Cammie
 
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Default if you don't have plants....

is it possible to have a good aquarium?

Whenever I had artificial plants I always got algae problems. With live
plants I don't, however, I haven't had the best of luck with plants.
Cabomba do the best but after 2-3 months they start to get really thinned
out and bad looking. I have high light of 4 watts per gallon, good
biowheel 125 filtration, so I thought plants would be okay for me.

I've thought of going back to artifical decor, but like I said, I seem to
get algae then.

Any thoughts?



  #2   Report Post  
Old 29-06-2003, 12:08 AM
LeighMo
 
Posts: n/a
Default if you don't have plants....

is it possible to have a good aquarium?

Yes. But most of us here would say it's just not the same. :-)

Whenever I had artificial plants I always got algae problems. With live
plants I don't, however, I haven't had the best of luck with plants.
Cabomba do the best but after 2-3 months they start to get really thinned
out and bad looking. I have high light of 4 watts per gallon, good
biowheel 125 filtration, so I thought plants would be okay for me.


Do you fertilize and inject CO2? You have to, with 4 wpg of light.

Also, Cabomba tends to get straggly if you keep "topping" it (cutting the tops
off). Cabomba should be pruned by tossing the bottoms and re-planting the
tops.

Why don't you post your tank parameters? I'm sure people would have some
suggestions for you. We need to know what size your tank is, how much light
you have over it, what your pH and KH are what kind of fertlizers you use, and
how often, what kind of plants you've tried, what kind of fish you have, etc.


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/
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Old 29-06-2003, 03:56 AM
Rex Grigg
 
Posts: n/a
Default if you don't have plants....

On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 21:06:58 GMT, "Cammie"
wrote:

Ok, you have 4 wpg. What color temp bulbs are you using. And most
important. Are you fertilizing the plants? Plants need a lot more
than light to survive.

is it possible to have a good aquarium?

Whenever I had artificial plants I always got algae problems. With live
plants I don't, however, I haven't had the best of luck with plants.
Cabomba do the best but after 2-3 months they start to get really thinned
out and bad looking. I have high light of 4 watts per gallon, good
biowheel 125 filtration, so I thought plants would be okay for me.

I've thought of going back to artifical decor, but like I said, I seem to
get algae then.

Any thoughts?



Semper Fi!

Visit the forums at Aqua Botanic!
http://aquabotanicwetthumb.infopop.cc/#1

Need Nitrate or Potassium for your tank? Go to www.litemanu.com
(Just a happy customer of the above!)
  #4   Report Post  
Old 29-06-2003, 05:08 AM
 
Posts: n/a
Default if you don't have plants....

"Cammie" wrote in message ...
is it possible to have a good aquarium?

Whenever I had artificial plants I always got algae problems. With live
plants I don't, however, I haven't had the best of luck with plants.
Cabomba do the best but after 2-3 months they start to get really thinned
out and bad looking. I have high light of 4 watts per gallon, good
biowheel 125 filtration, so I thought plants would be okay for me.

I've thought of going back to artifical decor, but like I said, I seem to
get algae then.

Any thoughts?


Less light, less algae.

With lots of light, you will have something grow, be it plants or
algae or both.

Some plecos are good at removal from artificial decore but would munch
the plants.

You likely are running out of nutrients for the plants. Whne the
plants don't grow, the algae does.............

So if you cater to the plant's needs, light, CO2 and nutrients, then
they will do quite well for you over the long term.
Nutrtients are easy to handle.

Regards,
Tom Barr
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Old 29-06-2003, 08:09 AM
willis stanley
 
Posts: n/a
Default if you don't have plants....

In article ,
says...
"Cammie" wrote in message ...
is it possible to have a good aquarium?

Whenever I had artificial plants I always got algae problems. With live
plants I don't, however, I haven't had the best of luck with plants.
Cabomba do the best but after 2-3 months they start to get really thinned
out and bad looking. I have high light of 4 watts per gallon, good
biowheel 125 filtration, so I thought plants would be okay for me.

I've thought of going back to artifical decor, but like I said, I seem to
get algae then.

Any thoughts?


Less light, less algae.

With lots of light, you will have something grow, be it plants or
algae or both.

Some plecos are good at removal from artificial decore but would munch
the plants.

You likely are running out of nutrients for the plants. Whne the
plants don't grow, the algae does.............

So if you cater to the plant's needs, light, CO2 and nutrients, then
they will do quite well for you over the long term.
Nutrtients are easy to handle.

Regards,
Tom Barr

You could begin with plants that are more durable e.g., java fern,
anubias, java moss, anacharis and respond to the algae with otos and
siamese algae eaters. You can use Flourish excel as a substitute for
CO2 injection in smaller tanks, or build a diy setup in about 5 minutes
with stuff you likely have lying about plus yeast. With a bit of
practice, you can get the right level of nutrients so that the plants
take off and natural algae control copes with the rough spots.

worst algae I've ever had in freshwater was in a tank I tried to set up
w/o plants.


  #6   Report Post  
Old 29-06-2003, 03:20 PM
LeighMo
 
Posts: n/a
Default if you don't have plants....

You could begin with plants that are more durable e.g., java fern,
anubias, java moss, anacharis and respond to the algae with otos and
siamese algae eaters.


That won't work with 4 wpg. With that much light, you need fast-growing stem
plants and *lots* of CO2, or you'll have an algae farm on your hands.




Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/
  #8   Report Post  
Old 29-06-2003, 10:56 PM
Cammie
 
Posts: n/a
Default if you don't have plants....

I think lines got cross a little. I DON'T have algae with the live plants,
I have zero algae in my tank, no need for plecos and algae eaters. It's
just that after 2-3 months and the plants get real sparse and shabby
looking. I don't do the CO2 thing (not even sure what that is and if I want
to get into it) but I have very good filtration, water flow, and my
parameters are perfect. I also do have Flourish nutrient in the water I top
the tank off with.

I like Cabomba, they keep growing for me, but I wish they would keep looking
nice like when I first get them. I just wondered if this was typical of
Cabomba.

Also, my three tanks are only 10 gallons each and the lighting, well don't
laugh... the lighting I have is only incandelescent and I can't change that
unless I get all new tanks. The tanks were the Eclipse style with the hood
and tank combo (but not Eclispse, some off brand of a similar style). So,
do you think the incandelescent lighting is why the plants don't do as well,
or is that not an issue?

My other question was if it was possible to maintain a tank with zero algae
with fake plants or decorations too, and how one could manage that. With
artificial things I always have an algae farm. In one of my smaller tanks I
would just like to have some rock, driftwood and coral pieces, but algae
forms on this stuff and looks aweful.



  #9   Report Post  
Old 30-06-2003, 02:08 AM
Poe Lim
 
Posts: n/a
Default if you don't have plants....

Can't you change to one of the screw-in compact fluro bulbs? That way you
can save some power. That's probably why you don't get algae with plants; I
suspect everyone thought you have 4W/g of fluorescent light! Why don't you
just keep to Cabomba, but cut them off when they get too tall, and replant
the top bits, discarding the lower bits. Certainly things like Java fern
(they seem to do well in any tank, in my low light w/o CO2, and with my
higher light with CO2) will do well in your tank.

Cheers,
Poe

"Cammie" wrote in message
...
I think lines got cross a little. I DON'T have algae with the live

plants,
I have zero algae in my tank, no need for plecos and algae eaters. It's
just that after 2-3 months and the plants get real sparse and shabby
looking. I don't do the CO2 thing (not even sure what that is and if I

want
to get into it) but I have very good filtration, water flow, and my
parameters are perfect. I also do have Flourish nutrient in the water I

top
the tank off with.

I like Cabomba, they keep growing for me, but I wish they would keep

looking
nice like when I first get them. I just wondered if this was typical of
Cabomba.

Also, my three tanks are only 10 gallons each and the lighting, well don't
laugh... the lighting I have is only incandelescent and I can't change

that
unless I get all new tanks. The tanks were the Eclipse style with the

hood
and tank combo (but not Eclispse, some off brand of a similar style).

So,
do you think the incandelescent lighting is why the plants don't do as

well,
or is that not an issue?

My other question was if it was possible to maintain a tank with zero

algae
with fake plants or decorations too, and how one could manage that. With
artificial things I always have an algae farm. In one of my smaller tanks

I
would just like to have some rock, driftwood and coral pieces, but algae
forms on this stuff and looks aweful.



  #10   Report Post  
Old 30-06-2003, 02:57 AM
Cammie
 
Posts: n/a
Default if you don't have plants....

They sell those screw in compact fluorescent ones at my work, they just got
them in. Do you think it's beneficial both energy and tank wise?



"Poe Lim" wrote in message
. au...
Can't you change to one of the screw-in compact fluro bulbs? That way you
can save some power. That's probably why you don't get algae with plants;

I
suspect everyone thought you have 4W/g of fluorescent light! Why don't you
just keep to Cabomba, but cut them off when they get too tall, and replant
the top bits, discarding the lower bits. Certainly things like Java fern
(they seem to do well in any tank, in my low light w/o CO2, and with my
higher light with CO2) will do well in your tank.

Cheers,
Poe

"Cammie" wrote in message
...
I think lines got cross a little. I DON'T have algae with the live

plants,
I have zero algae in my tank, no need for plecos and algae eaters. It's
just that after 2-3 months and the plants get real sparse and shabby
looking. I don't do the CO2 thing (not even sure what that is and if I

want
to get into it) but I have very good filtration, water flow, and my
parameters are perfect. I also do have Flourish nutrient in the water I

top
the tank off with.

I like Cabomba, they keep growing for me, but I wish they would keep

looking
nice like when I first get them. I just wondered if this was typical of
Cabomba.

Also, my three tanks are only 10 gallons each and the lighting, well

don't
laugh... the lighting I have is only incandelescent and I can't change

that
unless I get all new tanks. The tanks were the Eclipse style with the

hood
and tank combo (but not Eclispse, some off brand of a similar style).

So,
do you think the incandelescent lighting is why the plants don't do as

well,
or is that not an issue?

My other question was if it was possible to maintain a tank with zero

algae
with fake plants or decorations too, and how one could manage that.

With
artificial things I always have an algae farm. In one of my smaller

tanks
I
would just like to have some rock, driftwood and coral pieces, but algae
forms on this stuff and looks aweful.







  #11   Report Post  
Old 30-06-2003, 05:08 AM
LeighMo
 
Posts: n/a
Default if you don't have plants....

Also, my three tanks are only 10 gallons each and the lighting, well don't
laugh... the lighting I have is only incandelescent and I can't change that
unless I get all new tanks.


In that case, you don't have 4 wpg. Watts per gallon refers only to
flourescent light. Incandescent light is much less efficient. You have a
low-light tank, and that is probably why your plants don't look good for long.

You'd be better off with low-light plants like Willis suggested. Cabomba will
probably never grow well with your current lighting.

My other question was if it was possible to maintain a tank with zero algae
with fake plants or decorations too, and how one could manage that.


I've done it. For me, the trick was not overstocking the tank, having an
otocinclus or two, and doing regular water changes (30% weekly). If I
neglected the water changes, I would get algae problems, but they'd go away
when I got back on schedule.


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/
  #12   Report Post  
Old 30-06-2003, 05:32 AM
Cammie
 
Posts: n/a
Default if you don't have plants....

okay thanks for all the answers and suggestions... I think I will pick up a
couple of the new screw in compact fluorescents and give them a try and
ditch these incandelescents. But also, I have always heard that higher
light also promotes more algae... so how do you win the battle.... more
light for better plants, but you might get more algae in the meantime.


  #13   Report Post  
Old 30-06-2003, 06:08 AM
Jim Brown
 
Posts: n/a
Default if you don't have plants....


Cammie wrote in message
...
okay thanks for all the answers and suggestions... I think I will pick up

a
couple of the new screw in compact fluorescents and give them a try and
ditch these incandelescents. But also, I have always heard that higher
light also promotes more algae... so how do you win the battle.... more
light for better plants, but you might get more algae in the meantime.



Algae are in fact plants. Fish produce fertilizer (in very simplistic
terms). If no 'real' plants to use up fertilizer, then the algae plants
take over. It is also necessary to do water changes to reduce the toxins
(nitrates mainly) that build up over time and end up increasing 'plant'
growth.

Jim


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Old 30-06-2003, 06:08 AM
[email protected]
 
Posts: n/a
Default if you don't have plants....

"Cammie" wrote in message ...
I think lines got cross a little. I DON'T have algae with the live plants,
I have zero algae in my tank, no need for plecos and algae eaters. It's
just that after 2-3 months and the plants get real sparse and shabby
looking. I don't do the CO2 thing (not even sure what that is and if I want
to get into it) but I have very good filtration, water flow, and my
parameters are perfect. I also do have Flourish nutrient in the water I top
the tank off with.

I like Cabomba, they keep growing for me, but I wish they would keep looking
nice like when I first get them. I just wondered if this was typical of
Cabomba.


Not in a well run planted tank.
It's pretty lush if supplied with nutrients, grows, well......like a
weed which it is in many states. Inches per day type of growth.

Also, my three tanks are only 10 gallons each and the lighting, well don't
laugh... the lighting I have is only incandelescent and I can't change that
unless I get all new tanks. The tanks were the Eclipse style with the hood
and tank combo (but not Eclispse, some off brand of a similar style).


Well 4w gal is not much then If it were FL bulbs, then you'd have
loads of lighting. But at best, the equivilent FL wattage would be
about 3/4w per gallon as far as "usable light output".
At least 5x more light for the same watt. Most of the electric goes
into heat with your lights.

You might try some of those screw in FL lights they sell at the
hardware store. Cool whites or Daylight color temps work well.
This will greatly increase light output. Light bulbs also last lots
longer and have a better spectrum for your eyes and the plants.

So,
do you think the incandelescent lighting is why the plants don't do as well,
or is that not an issue?


It's part of it.

Aquatic plants need three basic things to do well also.
Light
CO2
Nutrients.

Plants can get some/enough nutients from fish etc at lower lighting
including CO2, but every tank I've ever seen has benefited greatly
from CO2 additions. Even the low light ones.
The higher the lighting, the more you need to add nutrients/CO2. It
gets depleted from higher plant uptake when using more light.

My other question was if it was possible to maintain a tank with zero algae
with fake plants or decorations too, and how one could manage that.


Copper sulfate [CuSO4] will work. Some fish are sensitive. There are
other algicides you can use also.

With
artificial things I always have an algae farm. In one of my smaller tanks I
would just like to have some rock, driftwood and coral pieces, but algae
forms on this stuff and looks aweful.


Take out and soak in a bleach solution of 20:1 water/bleach once a
month etc for 10 minutes, rinse well, add declhorinator etc return to
tank.

Credit cards are particularly good for glass algae and never scratch
the glass.

Regards,
Tom Barr
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Old 30-06-2003, 08:20 AM
Poe Lim
 
Posts: n/a
Default if you don't have plants....

Yes. I was going to say that you need to make sure you have adequate
ventilation, as the balast is at the bulb, rather than remote for most
fluoro tubes, but then your current bulbs would be plenty hot anyway, so
there should be decent built in ventilation.

Cheers,
Poe

"Cammie" wrote in message
...
They sell those screw in compact fluorescent ones at my work, they just

got
them in. Do you think it's beneficial both energy and tank wise?

Can't you change to one of the screw-in compact fluro bulbs? That way

you
can save some power. That's probably why you don't get algae with

plants;
I
suspect everyone thought you have 4W/g of fluorescent light! Why don't

you
just keep to Cabomba, but cut them off when they get too tall, and

replant
the top bits, discarding the lower bits. Certainly things like Java fern
(they seem to do well in any tank, in my low light w/o CO2, and with my
higher light with CO2) will do well in your tank.





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