That's so scary!

But don't some deep see fish glow anyhow?

Have you heard about them doing a similar experiment with an ape of
somesort? The apes fingernails glowed in the dark! (It's insane!)

Leandra

b wrote in message rthlink.net...
frankenfish be damned. but...i kinda want a school of glowing danios
for after dark viewing. wrong? well yeah but the visuals should prove
interesting after a day under power compacts.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3026104.stm
m

It's one thing to produce more crops etc, but just for the pet
industry's whim, and you'll note they are sterile which is good as far
as releasing them into the wild etc, but...............this is also a
great thing for the company selling them. None one can breed or sell
them except them.

Sort of like genetically resistant Round Up soybeans from Monsanto and
other GM crops, you have to buy from the ompany that develops it at a
higher cost and no raising your own.

That goes against the basic premises of growing crops or livestock,
breeding and keeping seeds for next year.

Genetic mutants are extremely useful in research, but not just for
personal consumer whims.

I see a boycott by many people. GM crops/livestock for food production
are bad enough and have issues some of which may or may not be
agreeable with folks.

Regards,
Tom Barr

midposted

wrote in message
om...
b wrote in message
rthlink.net...
frankenfish be damned. but...i kinda want a school of glowing danios
for after dark viewing. wrong? well yeah but the visuals should prove
interesting after a day under power compacts.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3026104.stm
m

It's one thing to produce more crops etc, but just for the pet
industry's whim, and you'll note they are sterile which is good as far
as releasing them into the wild etc, but...............this is also a
great thing for the company selling them. None one can breed or sell
them except them.

These genetically altered fish hav been around for a number of years. It
would be nice if they were kept within the research arena rather than being
released in a retail market that will see them as a staus symbol.


Sort of like genetically resistant Round Up soybeans from Monsanto and
other GM crops, you have to buy from the ompany that develops it at a
higher cost and no raising your own.

IMO, it's only fair that the company/person that put the time, money, and
effort into coming up with the item should be able to receive fair
compensation. I am still against the public release of these glow in the
dark fish.


That goes against the basic premises of growing crops or livestock,
breeding and keeping seeds for next year.

Genetic mutants are extremely useful in research, but not just for
personal consumer whims.

Agreed


I see a boycott by many people. GM crops/livestock for food production
are bad enough and have issues some of which may or may not be
agreeable with folks.

Well, how many fish keepers have bloody red parrot cichlids, or
'Flowerhorns'. The instant success of Dalmation mollies and marine clowns
at this time are all a result of the 'Gotta have one at any cost' mentality.
But to each his/her own. I can only wish that common sense would be better
exercised.

Jim


Regards,
Tom Barr

well I guess shoot me, I think they are cool and if I saw them in my local
store, I'd buy them

On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 20:59:52 GMT, "Cammie"
wrote:

well I guess shoot me, I think they are cool and if I saw them in my local
store, I'd buy them


I don't have any objection to genetically engineered fish, but PLEASE
PLEASE PLEASE stay away from multilated fish. Fish like the "Painted
Glass Fish" that they literally inject the dye with a needle.

Please do not buy them, or support any store that sells them.


Chuck Gadd
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua

well I guess shoot me, I think they are cool and if I saw them in my local
store, I'd buy them

I might be tempted, but not for $17 each!


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

speaking of injected glass fish, my Walmart has these in hot pink, and neon
green... very very cool looking, but I did not know they were actually
injected, I thought they were just another neon tetra sort of fish

On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 03:23:03 GMT, "Cammie"
wrote:

speaking of injected glass fish, my Walmart has these in hot pink, and neon
green... very very cool looking, but I did not know they were actually
injected, I thought they were just another neon tetra sort of fish

Yup, yet another thing some creeps will do for money.


Chuck Gadd
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua

IMO, genetically engineered fish is still not as cruel or any more ethical as catching wild fish and condemning them to a life in a tank, I've heard all types of statements for justification for doing so such as, fish not having to search for food, no predators etc, sorry, I'de sooner take my chances and be free.

As for injected fish, ban it, it should be illegal. Totally unacceptable and anybody who endorses it, let alone purchases them, is as sick and twisted as those low lifes who inflict such attrocious cruelty!

I know that for some areas of the world, their only income is from catching fish for the trade, but at what price, some fish have already seen dramatic drops in numbers, one in particular I'm led to believe is the Zebra plec, yet I still see them for sale, why?

I know a few of you keep Marine fish and inerts etc, which the majority of are wild caught I believe, personally I feel it should be banned. I know there are controlled catches around the world, but for some reefs etc, the damage has been done and some of it irreversible all because of high demand by the trade.

Being actively involved in raptor conservation in the U.K, I can foresee for different reasons, the future of certain species of tropical fish doomed! I know there are quite a few species of fresh water fish struggling to maintain numbers due mainly through habitat loss and pollution here in the U.K

Like most things, people will only sit up and realize, when it's to late!


Stuart


Maybe slightly off topic I know, but it just rattles my cage!

"Chuck Gadd" wrote
Actually, for some wild caught freshwater fish, having them caught for
the aquarium industry might be the only thing saving them. I don't
recall which species she was talking about, but Karen Randall
mentioned areas in South America where fish are caught and sold. In
those areas where they banned fishing (to protect the fish), suddenly
that land wasn't making any money, so the forests were cleared for
farming and other uses, which destroyed the habitat and killed off the
fish.

There were some live-bearers for sale at our last
fish club auction which are now extinct in the wild
due to habitat destruction.
I was actually thinking about the whole ethical
side of fishkeeping the other day.
I have to admit to feeling uncomfortable about wild
caught reef fish and inverts but I don't know enough
about the issue to make a judgment either way.
Is there such a thing as a 'happy fish' scheme so that
fishkeepers such as ourselves can be confident that
any livestock we buy has been treated humanely
and is either tank bred or comes from sustainable
wild populations?
If not then there should be.

--
Graham Ramsay
You might be a Bright:
http://www.the-brights.net

"Graham Ramsay" wrote in message
...
I was actually thinking about the whole ethical
side of fishkeeping the other day.
I have to admit to feeling uncomfortable about wild
caught reef fish and inverts but I don't know enough
about the issue to make a judgment either way.
Is there such a thing as a 'happy fish' scheme so that
fishkeepers such as ourselves can be confident that
any livestock we buy has been treated humanely
and is either tank bred or comes from sustainable
wild populations?
If not then there should be.



I think about these things as well... only *I* think "humanely treated /
wild caught" is an oxymoron. g
Perhaps one of the first things we can do as end buyers is to ask our LFS
"where is this fish from?" before each and every purchase. Let them know
that it is an issue that will influence where the $$$ go.


--
Toni
http://www.cearbhaill.com/aquarium.htm

"Graham Ramsay" wrote in message
...
I was actually thinking about the whole ethical
side of fishkeeping the other day.
I have to admit to feeling uncomfortable about wild
caught reef fish and inverts but I don't know enough
about the issue to make a judgment either way.
Is there such a thing as a 'happy fish' scheme so that
fishkeepers such as ourselves can be confident that
any livestock we buy has been treated humanely
and is either tank bred or comes from sustainable
wild populations?
If not then there should be.



I think about these things as well... only *I* think "humanely treated /
wild caught" is an oxymoron. g
Perhaps one of the first things we can do as end buyers is to ask our LFS
"where is this fish from?" before each and every purchase. Let them know
that it is an issue that will influence where the $$$ go.


--
Toni
http://www.cearbhaill.com/aquarium.htm

On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 22:13:22 GMT, "Toni"
wrote:

I think about these things as well... only *I* think "humanely treated /
wild caught" is an oxymoron. g

So you think that wild caught fish are automatically mistreated?


Chuck Gadd
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua

Actually, for some wild caught freshwater fish, having them caught for
the aquarium industry might be the only thing saving them.

That's true. And for some fish, there's little harm done by collectors. Neon
tetras and clown loaches, for example. Neons are basically annual fish in
their native waters. They live only a year in the wild, and are extremely
profilic. The ones collected for the hobby aren't missed.

With clown loaches, only the babies are desirable. The adults, which are a
foot or more, are left alone, so the breeders aren't affected. Most of the
babies collected for the pet trade wouldn't survive to adulthood anyway.


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 13:11:01 +0100, Skunky
wrote:

I know that for some areas of the world, their only income is from
catching fish for the trade, but at what price, some fish have already
seen dramatic drops in numbers, one in particular I'm led to believe is
the Zebra plec, yet I still see them for sale, why?

Actually, for some wild caught freshwater fish, having them caught for
the aquarium industry might be the only thing saving them. I don't
recall which species she was talking about, but Karen Randall
mentioned areas in South America where fish are caught and sold. In
those areas where they banned fishing (to protect the fish), suddenly
that land wasn't making any money, so the forests were cleared for
farming and other uses, which destroyed the habitat and killed off the
fish.

tropical fish doomed! I know there are quite a few species of fresh
water fish struggling to maintain numbers due mainly through habitat
loss and pollution here in the U.K

EXACTLY. In poor countries, where most of the wild-caught fish come
from, if they don't make money by catching the fish and selling them,
then they will find some other use for the land, often doing much more
damage to the fish populations.

Like most things, people will only sit up and realize, when it's to
late!

Yes, but people also tend to simplify the problem/solution.


Chuck Gadd
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua