There's another thread about selling glowing fish that have been
genetically altered with Cnidarian genes.

Well being a "plant" list.......
There are "glowing" plants as well, they have been around a long time.
A number of algae possess biolumenscese. They have a classic fire fly
tobacco GM mix in many text.

Now, would this be "Better" for some folks with ethical issues with
gene jockying?

Why are hybrids such as many Echinodorus species, Crypt species etc
okay but parrot fish are not?:-)

Is tying Riccia to a rock hurting it? :-)

Folks are very quick to humanize a critter, but plants? It's about
respecting life. Where do you draw the line of imposing on another
lifeform or establishing some sort of human value system on nature?

Is a weed any worst than a pest, be it vermin or bug?
Is killing algae "bad"?

Bioethics has many questions folks can wrestle with, many of them
difficult to answer.

How do we view plants vs critters?

Regards,
Tom Barr

Plants don't "feel". There is no nervous system, no capacity for pain.
Plants are simply a collection of cells reacting to external influences
(although the same thing could be said about humans)... Plants have no
capacity to feel distress or pain, they simply run a routine based on
stimuli (about as "feeling" as a computer).

I don't feel bad about mowing the grass in the yard, or trimming my
cabomba (well, it is annoying so I do feel a bit bad).
I don't know alot about the parrotfish debate other than they are an
unnatural hybrid. Do they lead a poor quality of life?
I don't like the practice of "painting" fish, as it is painful and
stressful, I think it's worse than the practise of clipping a dog's tail and
ears.
The GM glowing fish is a tough question... The modifications are done in
the egg, while the fish is nothing more than a ball of cells. But does the
modification make the fish lead a painful life? I doubt it... but they are
sterile, so no jurassic park type situations.
GM plants, I'm all for that, as long as they can't be released into the
wild and spread. Many of the plants we keep in aquariums, however, can
spread like the plague. While deep red/ purple anubias would be nice in the
aquarium, I don't want to see glowing anarchiris killing off the plants we
have here naturally.


--donovan

"GM plants, I'm all for that, as long as they can't be released into the
wild and spread"

but... that already occured on EUA and Canada, genetic cultivated plants (I
don't remember the species, some kind of grass to feed the animals) had
already created hybrids with non genetic modified plants.
There is simple no plants without the GM gene of this species in EUA or in
Canada .
think of what you lost!

this is big nonsense!
it's only the arrogance of man, thinking that he can improve nature...
No you cannot improve nature!

GM will not stop the world hunger!
this seeds are expensive and have patents, no one in Africa can afford this
seeds...

more... if you think that with these seed you can stop hunger by dumping
large quantities of food, this is the most ugly/wrong stuff you can do to
them.

you must provide knowledge for them to be sucessfull without this supid
genetic modified stuff.

remember jurassic park, they thought that it was impossible to replicate the
dinossaurs...

Regards!
António Vitor


in the early days when reproduction of this genetic modifed plans were
possible...

Regards!
António Vitor
"donovan n" wrote in message
news:3AbMa.85822$%42.54068@fed1read06...
Plants don't "feel". There is no nervous system, no capacity for pain.
Plants are simply a collection of cells reacting to external influences
(although the same thing could be said about humans)... Plants have no
capacity to feel distress or pain, they simply run a routine based on
stimuli (about as "feeling" as a computer).

I don't feel bad about mowing the grass in the yard, or trimming my
cabomba (well, it is annoying so I do feel a bit bad).
I don't know alot about the parrotfish debate other than they are an
unnatural hybrid. Do they lead a poor quality of life?
I don't like the practice of "painting" fish, as it is painful and
stressful, I think it's worse than the practise of clipping a dog's tail
and
ears.
The GM glowing fish is a tough question... The modifications are done
in
the egg, while the fish is nothing more than a ball of cells. But does the
modification make the fish lead a painful life? I doubt it... but they are
sterile, so no jurassic park type situations.
GM plants, I'm all for that, as long as they can't be released into
the
wild and spread. Many of the plants we keep in aquariums, however, can
spread like the plague. While deep red/ purple anubias would be nice in
the
aquarium, I don't want to see glowing anarchiris killing off the plants we
have here naturally.


--donovan

" wrote in message
Folks are very quick to humanize a critter, but plants? It's about
respecting life. Where do you draw the line of imposing on another
lifeform or establishing some sort of human value system on nature?

Is a weed any worst than a pest, be it vermin or bug?
Is killing algae "bad"?

Bioethics has many questions folks can wrestle with, many of them
difficult to answer.

How do we view plants vs critters?


I'm an avid gardener.
I truly try to use my time outdoors as an opportunity to get in tune with my
garden. Any exotics I bring in are provided with the best conditions
possible or I don't buy them. I put a fair amount of time and effort into
both researching and providing proper conditions for the life I care for.

As for the weeds? I pull 'em by the buttload- I'll have half filled the back
of a pick-up by the time you read this.
I won't insult you by suggesting that I apologize to each and every piece of
purslane, but I do try and keep a good frame of mind as I work. Thanks to
the big giant sky for the sun, regret for those who must be removed, and
sometimes a gentle chiding for growing in the wrong place to begin with. All
is taken to a giant compost heap and recycled.

In my mind it's about karma.
As long as I do more good than evil I believe my plant karma is fine.

It is about avoiding a cavalier attitude towards life, that's all.


--
Toni
http://www.cearbhaill.com/aquarium.htm

Xref: 127.0.0.1 rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants:73343


"donovan n" wrote in message
news:3AbMa.85822$%42.54068@fed1read06...
Plants don't "feel". There is no nervous system, no capacity for pain.
Plants are simply a collection of cells reacting to external influences
(although the same thing could be said about humans)... Plants have no
capacity to feel distress or pain, they simply run a routine based on
stimuli (about as "feeling" as a computer).



Just because we haven't the ability to measure their responses doesn't mean
they don't have any. g
There is a whole lot we don't know yet.

--
Toni
http://www.cearbhaill.com/aquarium.htm

"Toni" wrote in message arthlink.net...
" wrote in message
Folks are very quick to humanize a critter, but plants? It's about
respecting life. Where do you draw the line of imposing on another
lifeform or establishing some sort of human value system on nature?

Is a weed any worst than a pest, be it vermin or bug?
Is killing algae "bad"?

Bioethics has many questions folks can wrestle with, many of them
difficult to answer.

How do we view plants vs critters?


I'm an avid gardener.
I truly try to use my time outdoors as an opportunity to get in tune with my
garden. Any exotics I bring in are provided with the best conditions
possible or I don't buy them. I put a fair amount of time and effort into
both researching and providing proper conditions for the life I care for.

As for the weeds? I pull 'em by the buttload- I'll have half filled the back
of a pick-up by the time you read this.
I won't insult you by suggesting that I apologize to each and every piece of
purslane, but I do try and keep a good frame of mind as I work. Thanks to
the big giant sky for the sun, regret for those who must be removed, and
sometimes a gentle chiding for growing in the wrong place to begin with. All
is taken to a giant compost heap and recycled.

In my mind it's about karma.
As long as I do more good than evil I believe my plant karma is fine.

It is about avoiding a cavalier attitude towards life, that's all.

I applaud the dexterity of mind required for such selective solemnity,
but it does demonstrate that excessive reverence can be debilitating.
Worse is the seemingly compensatory enthusiasm for protecting "nature"
from human impact. Yes we need to concern ourselves with the
environment in general and things like releasing invasive species in
particular, but the facts are that man's participation in nature
through technology (e.g., genetically modified crops, modern
fertalizers, and yes, even DDT) have been net gains for us as a
species. Nature in reality is an unchartable process, red of tooth
and claw but forgiving and infinitely suprising; even the most
karmically-balanced of us can get hosed and the most learned of us can
wind up asking "What the hell is this?"
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...ile_science_dc

Relax. Kill a few mosquitos without apologizing.