Dealing with bright tanks
 

Hi,

I'm new to this newsgroup. I've been reading the post here for a
while. I wanted to thank all the posters. I've gotten tons of useful
information by reading the posts here. I've used a lot of the
information here to setup a 46 gallon bowfront that is doing OK.
Thanks!

I wanted to start a discussion regarding tanks that have a lot of
light, at least 3-4 watts per gallon (wgp). I have two such tanks and
have had a lot of problems. What are other people's experiences with
tanks that have a lot of light. What problems have people had with
bright tanks or high light tanks? What are some of the benfits that
people have experienced with bright tanks? How have people dealt with
algae? Any other experiences that you'd like to share?

In another post I'll put the details of my tanks, but I just wanted to
start some discussion first.

Thanks,
Tony

Dealing with bright tanks
 

Tony,

Good question, I currently have a 180Gallon Fresh water tank mostly
with plants and a few tetras, it has 8 96watt PC 10K bulbs, but I
recently bought a Giesemann light fixture with 3X250Watt double ended
bulbs 10K, plus 2X58watt floresent bulbs, I would like to know what
spectrum I should run is 10K okay, as I am currently running with the
PC's or should I go with something else. All I know is, it is going to
be intense.....

James





On 4 Mar 2003 12:11:43 -0800, (Tony) wrote:

Hi,

I'm new to this newsgroup. I've been reading the post here for a
while. I wanted to thank all the posters. I've gotten tons of useful
information by reading the posts here. I've used a lot of the
information here to setup a 46 gallon bowfront that is doing OK.
Thanks!

I wanted to start a discussion regarding tanks that have a lot of
light, at least 3-4 watts per gallon (wgp). I have two such tanks and
have had a lot of problems. What are other people's experiences with
tanks that have a lot of light. What problems have people had with
bright tanks or high light tanks? What are some of the benfits that
people have experienced with bright tanks? How have people dealt with
algae? Any other experiences that you'd like to share?

In another post I'll put the details of my tanks, but I just wanted to
start some discussion first.

Thanks,
Tony

Dealing with bright tanks
 

If one of your problems is algae get a sterilizer. Once I had it set
right the algae went right down

Tony wrote:

Hi,

I'm new to this newsgroup. I've been reading the post here for a
while. I wanted to thank all the posters. I've gotten tons of useful
information by reading the posts here. I've used a lot of the
information here to setup a 46 gallon bowfront that is doing OK.
Thanks!

I wanted to start a discussion regarding tanks that have a lot of
light, at least 3-4 watts per gallon (wgp). I have two such tanks and
have had a lot of problems. What are other people's experiences with
tanks that have a lot of light. What problems have people had with
bright tanks or high light tanks? What are some of the benfits that
people have experienced with bright tanks? How have people dealt with
algae? Any other experiences that you'd like to share?

In another post I'll put the details of my tanks, but I just wanted to
start some discussion first.

Thanks,
Tony

Dealing with bright tanks
 

I wanted to start a discussion regarding tanks that have a lot of
light, at least 3-4 watts per gallon (wgp).

I hope you are injecting CO2 with that lighting level. When you go over 3 wpg,
CO2 is mandatory, not optional.

With a 46 gallon tank, it can be hard to get enough CO2 in the water with DIY.
I would go with compressed CO2. You could run all your tanks off of a single
CO2 cylinder.


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

Dealing with bright tanks
 

I wanted to start a discussion regarding tanks that have a lot of
light, at least 3-4 watts per gallon (wgp). I have two such tanks and
have had a lot of problems. What are other people's experiences with

You should give more information to really start a discussion. You have just
given one parameter that is light. What kind of a problem you are facing? If
its algae what kind and what are NO3, P and other nutrient levels.

Dominic

Dealing with bright tanks
 

With a 46 gallon tank, it can be hard to get enough CO2 in the water with
DIY.
I would go with compressed CO2. You could run all your tanks off of a
single
CO2 cylinder.


Leigh

LeighMo is right, algae doesn't necessarily have to be in your tanks. It's
all about balance. Just adding more light isn't going to lead to great
plant growth, they still require two other main resources, co2 and
fertilizer. If you can't strike a balance between these three elements,
then the tank will be unstable and algae will be able to thrive on the
excesses.
-Cesium

Dealing with bright tanks
 

I heard this can do weird things to the nutrients in your tanks and can
retard algae growth?
has anyone hooked up a steralizer to a planted tank and had success?

"m.dekort" wrote in message
...
If one of your problems is algae get a sterilizer. Once I had it set
right the algae went right down

Tony wrote:

Hi,

I'm new to this newsgroup. I've been reading the post here for a
while. I wanted to thank all the posters. I've gotten tons of useful
information by reading the posts here. I've used a lot of the
information here to setup a 46 gallon bowfront that is doing OK.
Thanks!

I wanted to start a discussion regarding tanks that have a lot of
light, at least 3-4 watts per gallon (wgp). I have two such tanks and
have had a lot of problems. What are other people's experiences with
tanks that have a lot of light. What problems have people had with
bright tanks or high light tanks? What are some of the benfits that
people have experienced with bright tanks? How have people dealt with
algae? Any other experiences that you'd like to share?

In another post I'll put the details of my tanks, but I just wanted to
start some discussion first.

Thanks,
Tony

Dealing with bright tanks
 

Hi again,

My intention is to create a tread with experiences with high light
tanks. I wanted to see how many people have actually tried to grow
plants that require high light. From my limited experience, it has
been interesting. I don't expect to solve all m problems in one
thread. Instead, I thought it would be an interesting discussion for
this group.

For example, I ran a blue light for the first 3 months of my 46 gallon
tank. I have 2 96 watt compact florescent bulbs. My LFS guy told me
to use one white bulb and a blue bulb? Have you ever seen the kind of
algae that grows under bright blue light? I looked at a lot of web
pages and pictures of algae, but I have never seen anything quite like
what was growing in my tank. I would strongly recommend against
anyone else trying this experiment. My tank first when through
intense green water which I cleared up with a big UV sterilizer. The
water was so green I couldn't see 2 inches into the tank. It was like
my fish would suddenly appear from a fog when they got close to the
glass. Then the wierd algae started growing. It is dark green/blue
and very slimy, in the middle it was white. Since I changed out the
blue blub with a white bulb it has almost completely disappeared.

I'm sure that other people out there have some good stories, growing
plants with high lights isn't that easy and I'm sure a lot can go
wrong. I also figured it could be a good tread that people could read
to avoid making big mistakes.

Later,
Tony

(Tony) wrote in message . com...
I wanted to start a discussion regarding tanks that have a lot of
light, at least 3-4 watts per gallon (wgp). I have two such tanks and
have had a lot of problems. What are other people's experiences with
tanks that have a lot of light. What problems have people had with
bright tanks or high light tanks? What are some of the benfits that
people have experienced with bright tanks? How have people dealt with
algae? Any other experiences that you'd like to share?

Dealing with bright tanks
 

I heard this can do weird things to the nutrients in your tanks and can
retard algae growth?
has anyone hooked up a steralizer to a planted tank and had success?

Me. I've had a UV sterilizer on my tank almost from the beginning.

It won't do weird things to the nutrients in your tank. While UV light will
oxidize iron and the like, the effect is negligible. Hydroponics growers
routinely use UV sterilizers.

It won't solve all your algae problems, either. It does make short work of
green water, but has no effect on other types of algae.


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

Dealing with bright tanks
 

Then the wierd algae started growing. It is dark green/blue
and very slimy, in the middle it was white.

Sounds like BGA (blue-green algae). Weirdly, that's one algae that's often a
problem in low-light tanks.

I had a lot of it in one tank when it was low-light. Mainly when I didn't
change the water frequently enough. Then, when I increased the lighting to
moderate, I got BGA at the top of the tank, where plants kept the water still.
I was growing my own pond scum. :-P It eventually went away on its own. IME,
it's normal to suffer algae outbreaks as the tank gets established.
Eventually, the tanks finds its balance, and the algae goes away.


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

Dealing with bright tanks
 

Just adding more light isn't going to lead to great
plant growth, they still require two other main resources, co2 and
fertilizer. If you can't strike a balance between these three elements,
then the tank will be unstable and algae will be able to thrive on the
excesses.

Yup. And even worse things can happen. With high light and no CO2 injection,
the pH can shoot up so much and so fast it hurts, even kills, the fish.



Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

Dealing with bright tanks
 

wouldn't it kill algae spores and not allow the algae to spread in the tank
as easily?
"LeighMo" wrote in message
...
I heard this can do weird things to the nutrients in your tanks and can
retard algae growth?
has anyone hooked up a steralizer to a planted tank and had success?

Me. I've had a UV sterilizer on my tank almost from the beginning.

It won't do weird things to the nutrients in your tank. While UV light
will
oxidize iron and the like, the effect is negligible. Hydroponics growers
routinely use UV sterilizers.

It won't solve all your algae problems, either. It does make short work
of
green water, but has no effect on other types of algae.


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

Dealing with bright tanks
 

LeighMo wrote:
Yup. And even worse things can happen. With high light and no CO2 injection,
the pH can shoot up so much and so fast it hurts, even kills, the fish.

What causes the pH to go up (alkaline) in high light tanks?

--
Victor M. Martinez

http://www.che.utexas.edu/~martiv

Dealing with bright tanks
 

"LeighMo" wrote in message
...

snip

Yup. And even worse things can happen. With high light and no CO2
injection,
the pH can shoot up so much and so fast it hurts, even kills, the fish.

I experienced this with only 2wpg. I checked the pH two days after putting
in many plants and installing the light, and it was 9. That's why I got
into CO2 so quickly.

bob

Dealing with bright tanks
 

wouldn't it kill algae spores and not allow the algae to spread in the tank
as easily?

Not by my experience. UV sterilizers don't actually make the tank sterile.
Some people claim that the fishes' immune systems get weak, because there's no
germs to keep them revved up. Or that they kill off the biological filter.
Not true. There's plenty of bacteria, spores, and the like in a tank with a UV
sterilizer on it.
The UV sterilizer can only kill the stuff that's free-floating, and it doesn't
kill 100% of that.


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

Dealing with bright tanks
 

What causes the pH to go up (alkaline) in high light tanks?

There are two different mechanisms. One is depletion of CO2. This causes
daily pH swings. As the plants use up the CO2 during the day, the pH climbs.
When the lights go off, the plants stop absorbing CO2, and start releasing it.
The pH drops back down, reaching a low in the morning, just before the lights
go on. A small swing is nothing to worry about, but in high light tanks, the
swing can be large enough to make your fish very unhappy indeed.

The other is "biogenic decalcification," which causes a steady rise over days
or weeks. Not all plants can do this; the ones that can are generally the
plants that only grow submersed. They don't produce aerial leaves, and so have
adapted to getting CO2 out of the water. Egeria and Vallisneria, for example.
If there's not enough CO2, they can extract it from the bicarbonate in the
water. Often, if the plants are doing this, you'll find a chalky precipitate
on the leaves -- calcium carbonate. The KH will drop, the pH will rise. pHs as
high as 10 have been reported, due to biogenic decalcification.

Neither of these mechanisms is a problem with lower light. In low light, the
plants don't grow fast enough to deplete the CO2 in the water. Normal
diffusion with the atmosphere keeps CO2 levels steady, despite the plants'
using some of it.


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

Dealing with bright tanks
 

LeighMo wrote:
plants don't grow fast enough to deplete the CO2 in the water. Normal
diffusion with the atmosphere keeps CO2 levels steady, despite the plants'
using some of it.

Thanks! That was most informative.

--
Victor M. Martinez

http://www.che.utexas.edu/~martiv

Dealing with bright tanks
 

My plants do very well and algae was cut way back

Christopher wrote:

I heard this can do weird things to the nutrients in your tanks and can
retard algae growth?
has anyone hooked up a steralizer to a planted tank and had success?

"m.dekort" wrote in message
...
If one of your problems is algae get a sterilizer. Once I had it set
right the algae went right down

Tony wrote:

Hi,

I'm new to this newsgroup. I've been reading the post here for a
while. I wanted to thank all the posters. I've gotten tons of useful
information by reading the posts here. I've used a lot of the
information here to setup a 46 gallon bowfront that is doing OK.
Thanks!

I wanted to start a discussion regarding tanks that have a lot of
light, at least 3-4 watts per gallon (wgp). I have two such tanks and
have had a lot of problems. What are other people's experiences with
tanks that have a lot of light. What problems have people had with
bright tanks or high light tanks? What are some of the benfits that
people have experienced with bright tanks? How have people dealt with
algae? Any other experiences that you'd like to share?

In another post I'll put the details of my tanks, but I just wanted to
start some discussion first.

Thanks,
Tony

Dealing with bright tanks
 

I disagree a bit. It will only kill free floating algae however if you clean
the plants, tank and rocks well new growth is cut way back

LeighMo wrote:

I heard this can do weird things to the nutrients in your tanks and can
retard algae growth?
has anyone hooked up a steralizer to a planted tank and had success?

Me. I've had a UV sterilizer on my tank almost from the beginning.

It won't do weird things to the nutrients in your tank. While UV light will
oxidize iron and the like, the effect is negligible. Hydroponics growers
routinely use UV sterilizers.

It won't solve all your algae problems, either. It does make short work of
green water, but has no effect on other types of algae.

Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

Dealing with bright tanks
 

I disagree a bit. It will only kill free floating algae however if you clean
the plants, tank and rocks well new growth is cut way back

That has not been my experience. I had a UV sterilizer on my tank almost from
the beginning, before algae had a chance to get established. (It was to
prevent ich as I stocked the tank.) Nevertheless, as the weeks went on, I got
various algae infestations. IME, this is normal for a newly established tank,
and I didn't do anything special to control it, other than make sure I had
enough CO2 and fertilizer. Eventually, it went away on it own. However, I
still have more algae in the tank with the UV sterilizer than in the tank
without one. (Because the other tank has les slight, and lots of snails.)


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

Dealing with bright tanks
 

I have over 4 watts per gallon on my 29 gallon tank and I don't have an
algae problem. I'll admit it took a while and a lot of learning, but I made
it. It takes a lot of learning regarding fertilization, pushing your CO2
output to the upper limits of about 30 ppm (while still keeping your fish in
mind), and a lot of patience. If your nutrients are in correct balance, the
algae should go away, but sometimes this can take some time. I was doing
things correctly, but the algae was slow to disappear and I got impatient.
I kept changing things around and kept messing up. Trust the advice given
in this newsgroup by the "veterans" and give it a little time. Everything
will strike a balance. Once you reach this point of being "algae free",
I've found it's hard (at least for me) to get the algae back as long as you
keep the balance (at least make a conscious effort, which you must do
especially considering the lighting you have).

--
Craig Brye
University of Phoenix Online

"Tony" wrote in message
om...
Hi,

I'm new to this newsgroup. I've been reading the post here for a
while. I wanted to thank all the posters. I've gotten tons of useful
information by reading the posts here. I've used a lot of the
information here to setup a 46 gallon bowfront that is doing OK.
Thanks!

I wanted to start a discussion regarding tanks that have a lot of
light, at least 3-4 watts per gallon (wgp). I have two such tanks and
have had a lot of problems. What are other people's experiences with
tanks that have a lot of light. What problems have people had with
bright tanks or high light tanks? What are some of the benfits that
people have experienced with bright tanks? How have people dealt with
algae? Any other experiences that you'd like to share?

In another post I'll put the details of my tanks, but I just wanted to
start some discussion first.

Thanks,
Tony

Dealing with bright tanks
 

Dealing with bright tanks
 

perhaps a more powerful UV sterilizer?
are the steralizers inline with the filter or how do they work?
can anyone give me the best and easiest one to get? I have 2 fluval 404
filters and I'd rather not have another intake and outake on the back of my
tank

"LeighMo" wrote in message
...
I disagree a bit. It will only kill free floating algae however if you
clean
the plants, tank and rocks well new growth is cut way back

That has not been my experience. I had a UV sterilizer on my tank almost
from
the beginning, before algae had a chance to get established. (It was to
prevent ich as I stocked the tank.) Nevertheless, as the weeks went on, I
got
various algae infestations. IME, this is normal for a newly established
tank,
and I didn't do anything special to control it, other than make sure I had
enough CO2 and fertilizer. Eventually, it went away on it own. However,
I
still have more algae in the tank with the UV sterilizer than in the tank
without one. (Because the other tank has les slight, and lots of snails.)


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

Dealing with bright tanks
 

perhaps a more powerful UV sterilizer?

No. A UV sterilizer will take care of green water, but it will *not* fix other
algae problems. The best way to control algae is to keep your nutrients
(including CO2) in balance with your lighting and your plant selection, and to
keep some algae-eaters for mop-up.

are the steralizers inline with the filter or how do they work?

There are two kinds of UV sterilizers: inline and standalone. Some can be used
either way.

The inline models are meant to be used with cannister filters. You just hook
it up "inline" with the cannister filter, and the cannister filter's pump runs
water through it. (You should get a T-connector, so you can control the amount
of water that goes through the sterilizer.)

The standalone models are meant to be hooked to a powerhead, which you must buy
separately. (Check to make sure the flowrate of the powerhead is within the UV
sterilizer's recommended flowrate.) Get a standalone if you'll be using the
unit on more than one tank.

I bought a Custom Sealife "Double Helix" model, which is one of those that can
be used both inline or standalone. (I'm using it standalone, with a Penguin
powerhead.) I chose Custom Sealife because it's lower maintenance than most.
With other sterilizers, you have to wipe algae off the quartz sleeve over the
bulb every once in awhile. With some types, this means dismantling the unit to
clean it. Others have a "wiper," that allows you to clean the sleeve without
taking the unit apart, or even taking it off the tank. The Double Helix
doesn't have a quartz sleeve. It's made out of special polymer that's so
slippery algae can't adhere, so there's cleaning.

In addition to cleaning, you have to change the bulb regularly, or the
sterilizer won't be effective. The interval depends on what model you get --
generally, it's anywhere from every six months to every eighteen months.

Also make sure the sterilizer you choose is sized for your tank, and that you
have the proper flowrate going through it. I recommend sizing up one;
sometimes manufacturers exaggerate the effectiveness of their units. And ich
can be tough to kill.


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

Dealing with bright tanks
 

Not to push the thread but. . .I had the same issue until I got the flow right.
Too slow and algae was not affected. Based on the specs to kill algae and other
bad things i believe i have found a happy medium. For example - I used to get
algae on the glass at the output of the return nozzle - now I do not.

LeighMo wrote:

I disagree a bit. It will only kill free floating algae however if you clean
the plants, tank and rocks well new growth is cut way back

That has not been my experience. I had a UV sterilizer on my tank almost from
the beginning, before algae had a chance to get established. (It was to
prevent ich as I stocked the tank.) Nevertheless, as the weeks went on, I got
various algae infestations. IME, this is normal for a newly established tank,
and I didn't do anything special to control it, other than make sure I had
enough CO2 and fertilizer. Eventually, it went away on it own. However, I
still have more algae in the tank with the UV sterilizer than in the tank
without one. (Because the other tank has les slight, and lots of snails.)

Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

Dealing with bright tanks
 

My 2.5 cents again

You can also rig a sterilizer with an external power filter. I take water from the
post filter media side, run it through the sterilizer and then put the output back
in the tank at the other end. I regulate flow with a "pinch" type collar that is
made for this. $ months and it works great. (I did it this way because I had the
power filter first. I use the clean water filter input instead of just drawing
from the tank because it is (should be) cleaner)

LeighMo wrote:

perhaps a more powerful UV sterilizer?

No. A UV sterilizer will take care of green water, but it will *not* fix other
algae problems. The best way to control algae is to keep your nutrients
(including CO2) in balance with your lighting and your plant selection, and to
keep some algae-eaters for mop-up.

are the steralizers inline with the filter or how do they work?

There are two kinds of UV sterilizers: inline and standalone. Some can be used
either way.

The inline models are meant to be used with cannister filters. You just hook
it up "inline" with the cannister filter, and the cannister filter's pump runs
water through it. (You should get a T-connector, so you can control the amount
of water that goes through the sterilizer.)

The standalone models are meant to be hooked to a powerhead, which you must buy
separately. (Check to make sure the flowrate of the powerhead is within the UV
sterilizer's recommended flowrate.) Get a standalone if you'll be using the
unit on more than one tank.

I bought a Custom Sealife "Double Helix" model, which is one of those that can
be used both inline or standalone. (I'm using it standalone, with a Penguin
powerhead.) I chose Custom Sealife because it's lower maintenance than most.
With other sterilizers, you have to wipe algae off the quartz sleeve over the
bulb every once in awhile. With some types, this means dismantling the unit to
clean it. Others have a "wiper," that allows you to clean the sleeve without
taking the unit apart, or even taking it off the tank. The Double Helix
doesn't have a quartz sleeve. It's made out of special polymer that's so
slippery algae can't adhere, so there's cleaning.

In addition to cleaning, you have to change the bulb regularly, or the
sterilizer won't be effective. The interval depends on what model you get --
generally, it's anywhere from every six months to every eighteen months.

Also make sure the sterilizer you choose is sized for your tank, and that you
have the proper flowrate going through it. I recommend sizing up one;
sometimes manufacturers exaggerate the effectiveness of their units. And ich
can be tough to kill.

Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

Dealing with bright tanks
 

so still, shouldn't it take a considerable dent out of the free floating
algae spores? Wouldn't this slow the appearance of algae as it would not be
able to spread in the tank nearly as fast?
"LeighMo" wrote in message
...
wouldn't it kill algae spores and not allow the algae to spread in the
tank
as easily?

Not by my experience. UV sterilizers don't actually make the tank
sterile.
Some people claim that the fishes' immune systems get weak, because
there's no
germs to keep them revved up. Or that they kill off the biological
filter.
Not true. There's plenty of bacteria, spores, and the like in a tank with
a UV
sterilizer on it.
The UV sterilizer can only kill the stuff that's free-floating, and it
doesn't
kill 100% of that.


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

Dealing with bright tanks
 

so still, shouldn't it take a considerable dent out of the free floating
algae spores? Wouldn't this slow the appearance of algae as it would not be
able to spread in the tank nearly as fast?

IME, no. Unlike, say, ich, it's not the amount of spores that controls how
much algae you have in your tank. It's what's available in the tank to feed
the algae.

A lot of people have tried to control algae by keeping spores out of the tank.
It never works. Similarly, if your tank is in balance, you can add plants and
rocks that are covered with algae, and it will not spread; it will just die
off.

A UV sterilizer might be a good investment for you, for treating ich, because
of the size of your tank. Medication is a hassle with very large tanks. But
don't expect it to solve your algae problems. If you have algae, your tank is
out of balance. Too much light, not enough CO2, or some kind of nutrient
deficiency.


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/