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Old 21-07-2003, 04:33 PM
Bill Beam
 
Posts: n/a
Default CO2 - Here's the straight sh*(

Wow - Feel like I've been run over by a truck. I've tried to balance
everything for months. OK - it works for everyone else - I'll keep
trying. Guess I'll go with different bulbs or something this time.
CYA



On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 01:09:29 -0400 (EDT), (~Vicki
~) wrote:

I don't use CO2 in my tanks either, but it does not mean that it does
not work. Every tank is different that is all.

Vicki



  #17   Report Post  
Old 21-07-2003, 04:33 PM
Bill Beam
 
Posts: n/a
Default CO2 - Here's the straight sh*(

Wow - Feel like I've been run over by a truck. I've tried to balance
everything for months. OK - it works for everyone else - I'll keep
trying. Guess I'll go with different bulbs or something this time.
CYA



On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 01:09:29 -0400 (EDT), (~Vicki
~) wrote:

I don't use CO2 in my tanks either, but it does not mean that it does
not work. Every tank is different that is all.

Vicki


  #18   Report Post  
Old 21-07-2003, 04:33 PM
Bill Beam
 
Posts: n/a
Default CO2 - Here's the straight sh*(

Wow - Feel like I've been run over by a truck. I've tried to balance
everything for months. OK - it works for everyone else - I'll keep
trying. Guess I'll go with different bulbs or something this time.
CYA



On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 01:09:29 -0400 (EDT), (~Vicki
~) wrote:

I don't use CO2 in my tanks either, but it does not mean that it does
not work. Every tank is different that is all.

Vicki


  #19   Report Post  
Old 21-07-2003, 07:58 PM
~Vicki ~
 
Posts: n/a
Default CO2 - Here's the straight sh*(

Wow - Feel like I've been run over by a truck. I've tried to balance
everything for months. OK - it works for everyone else - I'll keep
trying. Guess I'll go with different bulbs or something this time. CYA



Let me qualify my statement. I have two garden centers and a landscape
whole sale lot that the landscape department of my business works out
of. So it is reasonable to say that I know a thing or two about plants.
Plants are basically the same whether they grow on land or water and
need the same things to thrive. mainly water, light, nutrients, CO2 and
oxygen.

If your lawn is full of weeds than it is reasonable to think that the
dirt is of poor quality, meaning that it is low in organic material
needed to promote good grass growth. Algae is like a weed then and it
is growing very happily in your tank. Now saying that you still don't
know how to fix the problem and are very frustrated since you have
followed everyones' advice and still are left with an unsightly tank.

Well then let me explain my own tank set up to you and see if it can
help you a little bit. I have a 55 g tank which I have placed next to a
north-eastern window in my home. It gets filtered light all day and I
also use a full spectrum light in the hood.(nothing special, just the
hood that came with the tank. The bulb which come with the hood is no
good for plants tho. Just get one at your local pet store which is full
spectrum.) My tank is also fully stocked with fish which produce plenty
of CO2 and other stuff which make my plants grow happily. I change 50%
of my water every week and add a little aquatic plant food for the trace
elements that the plants need to be healthy in the tank. I also do not
have hundreds of plants in it, but about 15. I have several diff types
of amazon sword, several Ceratopteris thalictroides ( oriental water
fern) sagittaria (dwarf variety ) and several Nymphaea lotus ( Egyptian
water lilly) all of which do not need intense lighting. They are not
crowded together but have enough space for the water to move around.
(crowding is the number one killer of plants in the landscape. They
will not thrive if there is not adequate air movement and disease will
set in) Also I have a basic over the side filter which I use carbon in
the filter. I change the filter media every 3 weeks. Besides filtering
the water it oxygenates both fish and plants.

In the 20 + years that I have been keeping fish I have never had algae
grow more than a few little spots here and there in my tanks.

Now having said that, do you have the lighting needed for your type of
plants? Just like land plants, aquatic ones have there own lighting
requirements. Take Marigolds for instance. If planted in the sun they
take off and grow beautifully, but take the same plant and place it in
shade it will not do well. It will also not be able to hold its own
against say "Ivy" and is soon taken over. The same can be said of your
aquatic plants. They are having some trouble holding there own against
the algae. Re-evaluate your plants lighting needs and this should help.

Do you have fish in your tank? If so how many? Having fish provide CO2
and nitrates which the plants need to grow. Without fish you have to
add CO2 and nitrates to the tank in the proper dosages. This can be a
little tricky because to much or not enough will harm your plants. Fish
also eat algae. (have you ever seen an over fertilized lawn? dead and
dyeing grass is not a pretty sight)

How often do you do water changes? how much? I have found that 50%
weekly not only keeps my fish very happy, but my plants too. Fish waist
and other dirt does not have a chance to clog up the plants so they can
photosynthasize (sp?) properly. And a properly running plant competes
with weeds.


Hope this was a little help for you. You can e-mail me and try to work
this out if you would like.

Vicki

  #20   Report Post  
Old 21-07-2003, 08:11 PM
~Vicki ~
 
Posts: n/a
Default CO2 - Here's the straight sh*(

Wow - Feel like I've been run over by a truck. I've tried to balance
everything for months. OK - it works for everyone else - I'll keep
trying. Guess I'll go with different bulbs or something this time. CYA



Let me qualify my statement. I have two garden centers and a landscape
whole sale lot that the landscape department of my business works out
of. So it is reasonable to say that I know a thing or two about plants.
Plants are basically the same whether they grow on land or water and
need the same things to thrive. mainly water, light, nutrients, CO2 and
oxygen.

If your lawn is full of weeds than it is reasonable to think that the
dirt is of poor quality, meaning that it is low in organic material
needed to promote good grass growth. Algae is like a weed then and it
is growing very happily in your tank. Now saying that you still don't
know how to fix the problem and are very frustrated since you have
followed everyones' advice and still are left with an unsightly tank.

Well then let me explain my own tank set up to you and see if it can
help you a little bit. I have a 55 g tank which I have placed next to a
north-eastern window in my home. It gets filtered light all day and I
also use a full spectrum light in the hood.(nothing special, just the
hood that came with the tank. The bulb which come with the hood is no
good for plants tho. Just get one at your local pet store which is full
spectrum.) My tank is also fully stocked with fish which produce plenty
of CO2 and other stuff which make my plants grow happily. I change 50%
of my water every week and add a little aquatic plant food for the trace
elements that the plants need to be healthy in the tank. I also do not
have hundreds of plants in it, but about 15. I have several diff types
of amazon sword, several Ceratopteris thalictroides ( oriental water
fern) sagittaria (dwarf variety ) and several Nymphaea lotus ( Egyptian
water lilly) all of which do not need intense lighting. They are not
crowded together but have enough space for the water to move around.
(crowding is the number one killer of plants in the landscape. They
will not thrive if there is not adequate air movement and disease will
set in) Also I have a basic over the side filter which I use carbon in
the filter. I change the filter media every 3 weeks. Besides filtering
the water it oxygenates both fish and plants.

In the 20 + years that I have been keeping fish I have never had algae
grow more than a few little spots here and there in my tanks.

Now having said that, do you have the lighting needed for your type of
plants? Just like land plants, aquatic ones have there own lighting
requirements. Take Marigolds for instance. If planted in the sun they
take off and grow beautifully, but take the same plant and place it in
shade it will not do well. It will also not be able to hold its own
against say "Ivy" and is soon taken over. The same can be said of your
aquatic plants. They are having some trouble holding there own against
the algae. Re-evaluate your plants lighting needs and this should help.

Do you have fish in your tank? If so how many? Having fish provide CO2
and nitrates which the plants need to grow. Without fish you have to
add CO2 and nitrates to the tank in the proper dosages. This can be a
little tricky because to much or not enough will harm your plants. Fish
also eat algae. (have you ever seen an over fertilized lawn? dead and
dyeing grass is not a pretty sight)

How often do you do water changes? how much? I have found that 50%
weekly not only keeps my fish very happy, but my plants too. Fish waist
and other dirt does not have a chance to clog up the plants so they can
photosynthasize (sp?) properly. And a properly running plant competes
with weeds.


Hope this was a little help for you. You can e-mail me and try to work
this out if you would like.

Vicki



  #21   Report Post  
Old 21-07-2003, 08:26 PM
~Vicki ~
 
Posts: n/a
Default CO2 - Here's the straight sh*(

Wow - Feel like I've been run over by a truck. I've tried to balance
everything for months. OK - it works for everyone else - I'll keep
trying. Guess I'll go with different bulbs or something this time. CYA



Let me qualify my statement. I have two garden centers and a landscape
whole sale lot that the landscape department of my business works out
of. So it is reasonable to say that I know a thing or two about plants.
Plants are basically the same whether they grow on land or water and
need the same things to thrive. mainly water, light, nutrients, CO2 and
oxygen.

If your lawn is full of weeds than it is reasonable to think that the
dirt is of poor quality, meaning that it is low in organic material
needed to promote good grass growth. Algae is like a weed then and it
is growing very happily in your tank. Now saying that you still don't
know how to fix the problem and are very frustrated since you have
followed everyones' advice and still are left with an unsightly tank.

Well then let me explain my own tank set up to you and see if it can
help you a little bit. I have a 55 g tank which I have placed next to a
north-eastern window in my home. It gets filtered light all day and I
also use a full spectrum light in the hood.(nothing special, just the
hood that came with the tank. The bulb which come with the hood is no
good for plants tho. Just get one at your local pet store which is full
spectrum.) My tank is also fully stocked with fish which produce plenty
of CO2 and other stuff which make my plants grow happily. I change 50%
of my water every week and add a little aquatic plant food for the trace
elements that the plants need to be healthy in the tank. I also do not
have hundreds of plants in it, but about 15. I have several diff types
of amazon sword, several Ceratopteris thalictroides ( oriental water
fern) sagittaria (dwarf variety ) and several Nymphaea lotus ( Egyptian
water lilly) all of which do not need intense lighting. They are not
crowded together but have enough space for the water to move around.
(crowding is the number one killer of plants in the landscape. They
will not thrive if there is not adequate air movement and disease will
set in) Also I have a basic over the side filter which I use carbon in
the filter. I change the filter media every 3 weeks. Besides filtering
the water it oxygenates both fish and plants.

In the 20 + years that I have been keeping fish I have never had algae
grow more than a few little spots here and there in my tanks.

Now having said that, do you have the lighting needed for your type of
plants? Just like land plants, aquatic ones have there own lighting
requirements. Take Marigolds for instance. If planted in the sun they
take off and grow beautifully, but take the same plant and place it in
shade it will not do well. It will also not be able to hold its own
against say "Ivy" and is soon taken over. The same can be said of your
aquatic plants. They are having some trouble holding there own against
the algae. Re-evaluate your plants lighting needs and this should help.

Do you have fish in your tank? If so how many? Having fish provide CO2
and nitrates which the plants need to grow. Without fish you have to
add CO2 and nitrates to the tank in the proper dosages. This can be a
little tricky because to much or not enough will harm your plants. Fish
also eat algae. (have you ever seen an over fertilized lawn? dead and
dyeing grass is not a pretty sight)

How often do you do water changes? how much? I have found that 50%
weekly not only keeps my fish very happy, but my plants too. Fish waist
and other dirt does not have a chance to clog up the plants so they can
photosynthasize (sp?) properly. And a properly running plant competes
with weeds.


Hope this was a little help for you. You can e-mail me and try to work
this out if you would like.

Vicki

  #22   Report Post  
Old 22-07-2003, 04:11 AM
Duncan A. McRae
 
Posts: n/a
Default CO2 - Here's the straight sh*(

I had an actinic bulb in one of my tanks, and all the CO2 in the world
didn't make a difference. Your bulbs may be making an impact, and so might
your choice of plant. If they don't grow quickly enough, they're not
sucking up the CO2 and fertilizer. I'd cut the fertilizer (if you're using
any) before cutting the CO2, and making sure I have a sufficient quantity of
fast-growing plant.



"Bill Beam" wrote in message
...
Wow - Feel like I've been run over by a truck. I've tried to balance
everything for months. OK - it works for everyone else - I'll keep
trying. Guess I'll go with different bulbs or something this time.
CYA



On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 01:09:29 -0400 (EDT), (~Vicki
~) wrote:

I don't use CO2 in my tanks either, but it does not mean that it does
not work. Every tank is different that is all.

Vicki




  #23   Report Post  
Old 23-07-2003, 02:42 AM
[email protected]
 
Posts: n/a
Default CO2 - Here's the straight sh*(

Bill Beam wrote in message . ..
Wow - Feel like I've been run over by a truck. I've tried to balance
everything for months. OK - it works for everyone else - I'll keep
trying. Guess I'll go with different bulbs or something this time.
CYA


I don't think lighting or bulbs were the issue.
Aquatic Plants need 3 basic things:

Light= CO2(KH and pH)= Nutrients(NO3, GH, K+, Traces and PO4)

If ones missing, then the tank will not do well.
Using CO2 is not particularly difficult once set.
Say you have a KH of 5.
Add enough CO2 to get a pH of 6.8 and try and add enough to maintain
this pH for the entire day(light cycle).
The KH remains stable generally if you do regular water changes.
If you can do that, you got it licked.

If the tap water is different, hasa different KH, see this table and
find your KH. Slide over to the amount that's 20-30ppm of CO21 and
scroll up to see the pH needed for the CO2 reading, add enough CO2 to
get this pH.

pH/KH/CO2 table
http://www.sfbaaps.com/referencelist.aspx

Okay so let's assume you have done this, have enough light(You grew
nice algae right?:-)) and now have a good CO2 level.

Next on that list are the nutrients.
You can follow these down the line and check off each one as you
feelyou have a good range of NO3, then check the GH(3 degrees or
higher), next the K+, then the traces and finally the PO4.

Each step will yield better and better plant growth that builds upon
the previous parameter you have optimized for plant growth.

So if the light, CO2, NO3, K+, traces, PO4 are good, things go pretty
well.

Maybe folks believed that PO4(0.2ppm to 2ppm) caused algae in the past
and indeed a few still do. But if the other parameters, are kept in a
decent range, adding the PO4 does not hurt and helps a plant tank and
produces no algae(actually less).
But if the CO2 is off and you do this, or if there's no NO3 available,
then there's going to be stunted plants.

When the plants don't grow well, the algae will.
So focus in on the plant's needs.
The nutrient part is not difficult, I can certainly help there with
something most folks can easily live with.

As far as being run over by a truck, well there's road rage on the
info superhighway for sure Give them the friendly wave, smile and be
glad you are not upset.

Regards,
Tom Barr


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