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Old 20-08-2003, 11:02 AM
-=Almazick=-
 
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Default Algae Algae Algae

Ok guys. I'm fighting with algae and there is nothing else I can do but just
to give up. I need to know what algae is it? I tried almost everything and
can't get rid of it. I moved down with my light from 144W to 72W (helped a
lot). I do once a week water change apr. 20-30% I feed my fish once a day. I
keep my light 8-10 hours a day. The algae grows slowly only on plants but it
always comeback. (I don't get algae on my tank glass)
Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20, CO2 5-10, Tank size 65G.

Link to my pic with Algae (probably Hair Algae)
http://www.aptyp.com/iB_html/uploads...1557-algae.jpg




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Old 20-08-2003, 11:32 AM
LeighMo
 
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Default Algae Algae Algae

OMG. That photo reminds me of "Creepshow," the segment where the alien plant
stuff grows all over Stephen King. g

I keep my light 8-10 hours a day.


You should have the lights on 10-14 hours a day. Most plants are tropical, and
eight hours a day of light isn't enough. Put the lights on a timer, it's worth
it.

Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20, CO2 5-10, Tank size 65G.


Can you get your CO2 higher? Somewhere between 20 and 30 would be good. And
do you fertilize? Also, what kind of plants do you have? You need some fast
growers to suck up the nutrients.

If this were my tank, here's what I'd do. Put all the lights back on. 144W
over 65 gallons isn't that much, especially considering how deep a 65 gallon
tank is. Put the lights on a timer, so they're on 12 hours a day. Increase
CO2 to 25 ppm, or thereabouts. Fertilize with a complete fertilizer, such as
Tropica Mastergrow or Seachem Flourish. Add some fast-growing stem plants,
like Hygrophila, water sprite, etc. And add some algae-eating critters to the
tank - true SAEs, snails, Amano shrimp, or something like that.

In the long run, trying to starve the algae (of light or nutrients) doesn't
work in a planted tank. Because plants need the same things algae does.
Instead, try to give the plants everything they need to grow. If the plants
are doing well, the algae will go away.


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/
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Old 20-08-2003, 12:02 PM
-=Almazick=-
 
Posts: n/a
Default Algae Algae Algae

My plants always doing well, they grow 1 inch a day or so. About increasing
CO2 impossible. I'm using 2 Hagen CO2 systems. They both provide 1
bubble in 2-3 sec. I used to use Seachem Flourish but then stopped. I've
been fighting with my algae for the past 6 month. Everytime I try something
new (more water changes, less/more light, adding more fast growing plants,
less food, etc) just can't get the right balance. For more info please
check out my post
http://www.fishprofiles.com/interact...d.asp?id=18132


6 Cardinals
6 Otocinclus
3 Angels
3 Cory's (Bandit, Bronze, Blochi)
2 Perl 2 Red Dwarf Gourami's
1 Bristlenose
1 GAE










"LeighMo" wrote in message
...
OMG. That photo reminds me of "Creepshow," the segment where the alien

plant
stuff grows all over Stephen King. g

I keep my light 8-10 hours a day.


You should have the lights on 10-14 hours a day. Most plants are

tropical, and
eight hours a day of light isn't enough. Put the lights on a timer, it's

worth
it.

Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20, CO2 5-10, Tank size 65G.


Can you get your CO2 higher? Somewhere between 20 and 30 would be good.

And
do you fertilize? Also, what kind of plants do you have? You need some

fast
growers to suck up the nutrients.

If this were my tank, here's what I'd do. Put all the lights back on.

144W
over 65 gallons isn't that much, especially considering how deep a 65

gallon
tank is. Put the lights on a timer, so they're on 12 hours a day.

Increase
CO2 to 25 ppm, or thereabouts. Fertilize with a complete fertilizer, such

as
Tropica Mastergrow or Seachem Flourish. Add some fast-growing stem

plants,
like Hygrophila, water sprite, etc. And add some algae-eating critters to

the
tank - true SAEs, snails, Amano shrimp, or something like that.

In the long run, trying to starve the algae (of light or nutrients)

doesn't
work in a planted tank. Because plants need the same things algae does.
Instead, try to give the plants everything they need to grow. If the

plants
are doing well, the algae will go away.


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/



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Old 20-08-2003, 12:12 PM
LeighMo
 
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Default Algae Algae Algae

My plants always doing well, they grow 1 inch a day or so.

How many do you have? If you're having algae problems, your tank should be
full of plants -- at least 90% of the bottom planted, mostly with fast-growers.
Once the algae is under control, you can start thinning the plants and
switching to slower growers.

Can you post a photo of your whole tank, so we can get an idea of how how many
plants you have, and what kind?

About increasing
CO2 impossible. I'm using 2 Hagen CO2 systems.


It is difficult to get adequate CO2 levels for large tanks using just a yeast
system. However, there are things you can do. You could mix up a larger
batch, in a big juice bottle, and attach it to your Hagen reactor.

Still, even will all the lights on, you have only 2.2 wpg. You shouldn't
*need* to have CO2 to have an algae-free tank with that lighting level. My 29
gallon tank has 2.2 wpg, no CO2 injection, and no algae.

I've
been fighting with my algae for the past 6 month. Everytime I try something
new (more water changes, less/more light, adding more fast growing plants,
less food, etc) just can't get the right balance.


Could it be that you're changing things too often? It takes time and patience
to get a tank in balance. You may not even notice it happening. One day,
there will be no algae, and you won't know when it disappeared.

6 Cardinals
6 Otocinclus
3 Angels
3 Cory's (Bandit, Bronze, Blochi)
2 Perl 2 Red Dwarf Gourami's
1 Bristlenose
1 GAE


All your algae-eaters are the sucker-mouthed variety. IME, sucker-mouthed fish
prefer "flat" algaes, the kind that grow flat, as a film of slime on the glass,
leaves, etc. SAEs and Amano shrimp eat filamentous algae. I've also found
snails to be pretty good at eating hair algae. Pond snails, little ramshorns,
or Pomacea bridgesii.


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/
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Old 20-08-2003, 12:42 PM
-=Almazick=-
 
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Default Algae Algae Algae

The tank is not heavy planted only half of it is planted. About the light,
it is a big difference about 2.2wpg on 29G and 65G. When you get 2.2wpg on
65G is the same as 3.2 on 29G. The tank is very bright with 144wpg. Also
it all depends on bulbs. For example my 2 40W Plant gro bulbs (red) = 1 32W
white bulb. I can definitely say that 1 32W bulb is way brighter than 2
Plant Gro 80W (red) bulbs.





"LeighMo" wrote in message
...
My plants always doing well, they grow 1 inch a day or so.


How many do you have? If you're having algae problems, your tank should

be
full of plants -- at least 90% of the bottom planted, mostly with

fast-growers.
Once the algae is under control, you can start thinning the plants and
switching to slower growers.

Can you post a photo of your whole tank, so we can get an idea of how how

many
plants you have, and what kind?

About increasing
CO2 impossible. I'm using 2 Hagen CO2 systems.


It is difficult to get adequate CO2 levels for large tanks using just a

yeast
system. However, there are things you can do. You could mix up a larger
batch, in a big juice bottle, and attach it to your Hagen reactor.

Still, even will all the lights on, you have only 2.2 wpg. You shouldn't
*need* to have CO2 to have an algae-free tank with that lighting level.

My 29
gallon tank has 2.2 wpg, no CO2 injection, and no algae.

I've
been fighting with my algae for the past 6 month. Everytime I try

something
new (more water changes, less/more light, adding more fast growing

plants,
less food, etc) just can't get the right balance.


Could it be that you're changing things too often? It takes time and

patience
to get a tank in balance. You may not even notice it happening. One day,
there will be no algae, and you won't know when it disappeared.

6 Cardinals
6 Otocinclus
3 Angels
3 Cory's (Bandit, Bronze, Blochi)
2 Perl 2 Red Dwarf Gourami's
1 Bristlenose
1 GAE


All your algae-eaters are the sucker-mouthed variety. IME, sucker-mouthed

fish
prefer "flat" algaes, the kind that grow flat, as a film of slime on the

glass,
leaves, etc. SAEs and Amano shrimp eat filamentous algae. I've also

found
snails to be pretty good at eating hair algae. Pond snails, little

ramshorns,
or Pomacea bridgesii.


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/





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Old 20-08-2003, 02:32 PM
Rick
 
Posts: n/a
Default Algae Algae Algae


"-=Almazick=-" wrote in message
news:2AH0b.205900$o%[email protected]
Ok guys. I'm fighting with algae and there is nothing else I can do but

just
to give up. I need to know what algae is it? I tried almost everything and
can't get rid of it. I moved down with my light from 144W to 72W (helped a
lot). I do once a week water change apr. 20-30% I feed my fish once a day.

I
keep my light 8-10 hours a day. The algae grows slowly only on plants but

it
always comeback. (I don't get algae on my tank glass)
Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20, CO2 5-10, Tank size 65G.

Link to my pic with Algae (probably Hair Algae)
http://www.aptyp.com/iB_html/uploads...1557-algae.jpg



I had it in a planted 20g tank and eventually moved the fish out and
bleached everything in a 1 part bleach to 19 parts water solution,
everything, gravel, filter and the plants. When doing the plants you keep
the roots out of the solution and swish the leaf part around for a couple of
minutes. I lost very few plants. I had an extra cycled filter to restart
the tank all over again. That was almost a year ago and the stuff never came
back. Since that time I came across this article that may be of interest to
you

http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com..._peroxide.html

good luck.

Rick


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Old 20-08-2003, 11:02 PM
LeighMo
 
Posts: n/a
Default Algae Algae Algae

The tank is not heavy planted only half of it is planted. About the light,
it is a big difference about 2.2wpg on 29G and 65G. When you get 2.2wpg on
65G is the same as 3.2 on 29G.


If that's true, then you have to increase your CO2. Get compressed CO2, use
larger batches, or reduce the turbulence in your tank.

But I'm not so sure that it's true. While the watts per gallon relationship
does break down with very large tanks, I wouldn't call a 65 gallon all that
large. Moreover, it's a very deep tank -- deeper than a 29 gallon, even deeper
than a 75 gallon. The deeper the tank, the more light you need. Your tank is
25 inches deep. It's awfully hard to light a tank that deep.

Also
it all depends on bulbs. For example my 2 40W Plant gro bulbs (red) = 1 32W
white bulb. I can definitely say that 1 32W bulb is way brighter than 2
Plant Gro 80W (red) bulbs.


It looks brighter to human eyes, but not necessarily to plants. It's the
wattage that matters, not the color. If you don't have enough light over your
tank, using different color bulbs isn't going to fix the problem.


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/
  #8   Report Post  
Old 21-08-2003, 02:22 AM
Paige
 
Posts: n/a
Default Algae Algae Algae

How long have you had this tank set up? It is well established?

Paige


  #9   Report Post  
Old 21-08-2003, 03:12 AM
PérRµ§h ©
 
Posts: n/a
Default Algae Algae Algae


"-=Almazick=-" schreef in bericht
news:[email protected]sccrnsc01...
The tank is not heavy planted only half of it is planted. About the

light,
it is a big difference about 2.2wpg on 29G and 65G. When you get 2.2wpg

on
65G is the same as 3.2 on 29G. The tank is very bright with 144wpg. Also
it all depends on bulbs. For example my 2 40W Plant gro bulbs (red) = 1

32W
white bulb. I can definitely say that 1 32W bulb is way brighter than 2
Plant Gro 80W (red) bulbs.


the mistake you make here is that the human see things different than the
plant's eye.

human see green - plants cannot use the green spectrum
human see not the higher wavelengths - plants can use light up to 670 nm

so a bulb which has a lot of red, some of that light cannot be seen be a
humans eye and therefor we say it's not a brigth bulb but plants definitely
can use that ligth.

a bulb with lots of green can be very brigth, but plants cann't use that
that green light (that's why they are green) so the brightness is not a good
indicator for growing


  #10   Report Post  
Old 21-08-2003, 05:02 AM
-=Almazick=-
 
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Default Algae Algae Algae

About 8 month or so



"Paige" wrote in message
nk.net...
How long have you had this tank set up? It is well established?

Paige






  #11   Report Post  
Old 21-08-2003, 12:12 PM
-=Almazick=-
 
Posts: n/a
Default Algae Algae Algae

I bleached all my plants today and got rid of some of them. I increased CO2
a little bit and put 144W back. Well we'll see what's gonna happen now.
For some strange reason after I removed all the plants from the tank and
stopped the filter and stir my gravel, my water became a little bit cloudy
and looks like bacteria bloom. I vac the tank (20% water change) It must
clear up in a few days I hope it works otherwise I will scream very very
loud Also I read today that I can fight red algae with Copper. I will
probably buy Plant Gro Iron Enriched and add to my tank it has 0.005% of
Copper. I know it is not nearly enough but any extra copper might help. By
the way should I add Seachem Flourish now? I think I should wait until my
plants recover







"LeighMo" wrote in message
...
The tank is not heavy planted only half of it is planted. About the

light,
it is a big difference about 2.2wpg on 29G and 65G. When you get 2.2wpg

on
65G is the same as 3.2 on 29G.


If that's true, then you have to increase your CO2. Get compressed CO2,

use
larger batches, or reduce the turbulence in your tank.

But I'm not so sure that it's true. While the watts per gallon

relationship
does break down with very large tanks, I wouldn't call a 65 gallon all

that
large. Moreover, it's a very deep tank -- deeper than a 29 gallon, even

deeper
than a 75 gallon. The deeper the tank, the more light you need. Your

tank is
25 inches deep. It's awfully hard to light a tank that deep.

Also
it all depends on bulbs. For example my 2 40W Plant gro bulbs (red) = 1

32W
white bulb. I can definitely say that 1 32W bulb is way brighter than 2
Plant Gro 80W (red) bulbs.


It looks brighter to human eyes, but not necessarily to plants. It's the
wattage that matters, not the color. If you don't have enough light over

your
tank, using different color bulbs isn't going to fix the problem.


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/



  #12   Report Post  
Old 21-08-2003, 10:33 PM
Jim Seidman
 
Posts: n/a
Default Algae Algae Algae

tose (LeighMo) wrote in message ...
The tank is not heavy planted only half of it is planted. About the light,
it is a big difference about 2.2wpg on 29G and 65G. When you get 2.2wpg on
65G is the same as 3.2 on 29G.


If that's true, then you have to increase your CO2. Get compressed CO2, use
larger batches, or reduce the turbulence in your tank.

But I'm not so sure that it's true. While the watts per gallon relationship
does break down with very large tanks, I wouldn't call a 65 gallon all that
large. Moreover, it's a very deep tank -- deeper than a 29 gallon, even deeper
than a 75 gallon. The deeper the tank, the more light you need. Your tank is
25 inches deep. It's awfully hard to light a tank that deep.


I agree with the difficulty in lighting a deep tank. But in general,
the watts per gallon relationship only holds for a fairly narrow
range. 3 W/g is insufficient for a 3 gallon tank, just as it's more
than you need for a 125 gallon.

There's a really interesting article that analyzes the lighting in
Takashi Amano's tanks. He finds that, in general, Amano's lighting
increases as the *square root* of the tank size. So doubling the
number of gallons only results in about a 40% increase in the amount
of light. The article is at
http://www.fitchfamily.com/lighting.html

He even includes a calculator showing the amount of lighting Amano
would probably use on a given size tank. For 65g, it says 155W (or 2.4
W/g). For 29g, it's 107W (or 3.7 W/g). So if you believe all this,
Almazick is actually slightly understating the lighting equivalence
between 29 and 65 gallon tanks.

- Jim
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Old 21-08-2003, 11:04 PM
LeighMo
 
Posts: n/a
Default Algae Algae Algae

Also I read today that I can fight red algae with Copper.

Don't do it. Those algaecides do contain copper, but they will kill your
plants as surely as they kill your algae. They may also kill inverts like
shrimp or snails, if you have them.

By
the way should I add Seachem Flourish now? I think I should wait until my
plants recover


Waiting awhile probably won't hurt. Though personally, the only time I ever
have algae problems is when I run out of fertilizer.

Do you have enough plants? I have some clippings I could give you if you need
more.



Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/
  #14   Report Post  
Old 21-08-2003, 11:04 PM
-=Almazick=-
 
Posts: n/a
Default Algae Algae Algae

To tell you the truth my plants looks like a shaved cat now and it looks
like I will need all new plants . If you have some clippings I would love
to get some. I will pay for s/h via PayPal just let me know how much and
I'll pay for it. I think you are right about not having enough plants.
Even though my plants used to grow 1 inch a day I did not have enough of
them to get all the nutrients from tank water. Like I said my tank was
lightly planted because I used to throw away lot's of plants every week. I
live in Chicago, IL





"LeighMo" wrote in message
...
Also I read today that I can fight red algae with Copper.


Don't do it. Those algaecides do contain copper, but they will kill your
plants as surely as they kill your algae. They may also kill inverts like
shrimp or snails, if you have them.

By
the way should I add Seachem Flourish now? I think I should wait until my
plants recover


Waiting awhile probably won't hurt. Though personally, the only time I

ever
have algae problems is when I run out of fertilizer.

Do you have enough plants? I have some clippings I could give you if you

need
more.



Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/



  #15   Report Post  
Old 22-08-2003, 12:42 PM
LeighMo
 
Posts: n/a
Default Algae Algae Algae

I agree with the difficulty in lighting a deep tank. But in general,
the watts per gallon relationship only holds for a fairly narrow
range. 3 W/g is insufficient for a 3 gallon tank, just as it's more
than you need for a 125 gallon.


I'm not disagreeing with that. Have you seen the article this page was based
on?

http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Tech/Lighting/

It's true, the wpg relationship is true only for tanks in a certain range --
but a 65 gallon tank falls in that range. If anything, a 65 gallon tank needs
more light than the rule of thumb suggests, probably because of its depth.

He even includes a calculator showing the amount of lighting Amano
would probably use on a given size tank. For 65g, it says 155W (or 2.4
W/g). For 29g, it's 107W (or 3.7 W/g). So if you believe all this,
Almazick is actually slightly understating the lighting equivalence
between 29 and 65 gallon tanks.


I'm afraid I don't buy that calculator. I don't think a "best fit" curve is a
good idea for making recommendations for specific tanks. While it's
interesting to see the whole picture on a graph, a best fit curve interpolates
for areas where there's no data, and forces data to fit in areas where it
doesn't. It's a best fit curve, not an *actual* fit.

While I have no argument with the general premise of the page, I think his
calculator is flat wrong for a 65 gallon tank -- probably because the
calculator doesn't take into account the depth of the tank.

A better calculator would take into account the depth of the tank, the length
of the bulbs (longer bulbs produce more light for their wattage), and the
surface area, not just the tank volume. And probably the efficiency of the
reflector.

Okay, that's probably not practical. But I think there's good data in the Krib
lighting survey, because it shows what people are actually using for a specific
size of tank. I suspect that's more useful than any rule of thumb or best fit
curve could ever be. The logarithmic scale is difficult to read for many,
though. Rather than a calculator or a graph, I'd do a table, showing the tank
size, lighting range, and average lighting. So you could just look up your
tank size and see how much light other people are using.


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/


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