Thanks for the reply. correction to my previous
post. I used topsoil, not potting soil. So far
(2 months) no problems with fish or plants (in
fact plants loving it).


"RedForeman ©®" wrote:

Are you an advanced aquarist or a beginner? the OP is a beginner, and
wanting to start out with soil covered with flourite.... I know, I've been
told be many that it is a bad idea for a beginner...

Potential problems
Additives in the soil, Potting soil HAS additives, Top Soils don't...
Some have vermiculite, some dont
Some have pesticides, some dont
Some people think you can just add dirt.... wrong.


Some asked about peat... not a good idea either...
Some have urea, MAJOR ammonia problem there... but plants love it...fish
won't.

"Soji John" wrote in message
...
Most of the soil is denser than water. some of it
(such as the peat) may be lighter. It is true
that once the soil layer is disturbed it will
cause a turbidity problem. I try not to do this
and as of now it hasn't been an issue. Any other
problems that you know of?

Thanks,

-soji

Dunter Powries wrote:

You asked, you got an answer, you argued... fair game.

Seriously, you've got a lighter-than-water substance weighted down by
gravel. How long do you think you can go with having to move a plant,
and
what happens when you disturb the gravel barrier. Better to think of it
now
than later.

Joe Zoolan wrote in message
...
Dunter...sorry to be so stupid. I guess reporting what I've read in
100
other posts over the past 2 weeks isn't good enough for you. Thanks
for
the constructive feedback...

Tim

Dunter Powries wrote:
joe wrote in message
...

...the light nature of the stuff, which is resolved with
the gravel layer on top...


Ha ha ha ha ha ha! Oh, my.

keep us up to date, I'm a newbie, only got 2years experience, but I steered
away from soil.. scared me... I stuck with flourite, was told by many that
it was the safest way to go...

got any pics of your tank?? I'm always interested in seeing soiled tanks..
I mean, tanks with soil.... oh well.. you know what I mean...

I did see a great tank, a 125 with soil, even had some rocks here and there,
but a ton of angels... they were beautiful against the black bottom.....


"Soji John" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the reply. correction to my previous
post. I used topsoil, not potting soil. So far
(2 months) no problems with fish or plants (in
fact plants loving it).


"RedForeman ©®" wrote:

Are you an advanced aquarist or a beginner? the OP is a beginner, and
wanting to start out with soil covered with flourite.... I know, I've
been
told be many that it is a bad idea for a beginner...

Potential problems
Additives in the soil, Potting soil HAS additives, Top Soils don't...
Some have vermiculite, some dont
Some have pesticides, some dont
Some people think you can just add dirt.... wrong.


Some asked about peat... not a good idea either...
Some have urea, MAJOR ammonia problem there... but plants love it...fish
won't.

"Soji John" wrote in message
...
Most of the soil is denser than water. some of it
(such as the peat) may be lighter. It is true
that once the soil layer is disturbed it will
cause a turbidity problem. I try not to do this
and as of now it hasn't been an issue. Any other
problems that you know of?

Thanks,

-soji

Dunter Powries wrote:

You asked, you got an answer, you argued... fair game.

Seriously, you've got a lighter-than-water substance weighted down
by
gravel. How long do you think you can go with having to move a
plant,
and
what happens when you disturb the gravel barrier. Better to think
of it
now
than later.

Joe Zoolan wrote in message
...
Dunter...sorry to be so stupid. I guess reporting what I've read
in
100
other posts over the past 2 weeks isn't good enough for you.
Thanks
for
the constructive feedback...

Tim

Dunter Powries wrote:
joe wrote in message
...

...the light nature of the stuff, which is resolved with
the gravel layer on top...


Ha ha ha ha ha ha! Oh, my.

Just a quick clarification, as I think there are some misconceptions...

1) As the OP, I'm not a beginnner aquarist, just a beginner with planted
tanks. I've been keeping fish on and off for 15 years.

2) The stuff I'm using is not 'soil' in the terrestrial use of the word.
Per the manufacturer, it is 'Made from a kiln-fired 100% mineral
substance, contains no peat moss or compost that can break down, cloud
water or float around to clog filters and pumps.'. It doesn't have any
of those things you mentioned either, such as additives.

3) I have stirred it around since it was installed, and while it does
move relatively easily, it settled right back down. No couldiness was
generated, I'm sure in large part because I thoroughly washed it before
putting it in to remove the dust.

Tim

RedForeman ©® wrote:

Are you an advanced aquarist or a beginner? the OP is a beginner, and
wanting to start out with soil covered with flourite.... I know, I've been
told be many that it is a bad idea for a beginner...

Potential problems
Additives in the soil, Potting soil HAS additives, Top Soils don't...
Some have vermiculite, some dont
Some have pesticides, some dont
Some people think you can just add dirt.... wrong.
Some asked about peat... not a good idea either...
Some have urea, MAJOR ammonia problem there... but plants love it...fish
won't.

"Soji John" wrote in message
...

Most of the soil is denser than water. some of it
(such as the peat) may be lighter. It is true
that once the soil layer is disturbed it will
cause a turbidity problem. I try not to do this
and as of now it hasn't been an issue. Any other
problems that you know of?

Thanks,

-soji

Dunter Powries wrote:

You asked, you got an answer, you argued... fair game.

Seriously, you've got a lighter-than-water substance weighted down by
gravel. How long do you think you can go with having to move a plant,

and

what happens when you disturb the gravel barrier. Better to think of it

now

than later.

Joe Zoolan wrote in message
...

Dunter...sorry to be so stupid. I guess reporting what I've read in

100

other posts over the past 2 weeks isn't good enough for you. Thanks

for

the constructive feedback...

Tim

Dunter Powries wrote:

joe wrote in message

...

...the light nature of the stuff, which is resolved with
the gravel layer on top...


Ha ha ha ha ha ha! Oh, my.








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Keep me informed, always looking for a new product to use... Take many pics,
keep us up-to-date...


"joe" wrote in message ...
Just a quick clarification, as I think there are some misconceptions...

1) As the OP, I'm not a beginnner aquarist, just a beginner with planted
tanks. I've been keeping fish on and off for 15 years.

2) The stuff I'm using is not 'soil' in the terrestrial use of the word.
Per the manufacturer, it is 'Made from a kiln-fired 100% mineral
substance, contains no peat moss or compost that can break down, cloud
water or float around to clog filters and pumps.'. It doesn't have any
of those things you mentioned either, such as additives.

3) I have stirred it around since it was installed, and while it does
move relatively easily, it settled right back down. No couldiness was
generated, I'm sure in large part because I thoroughly washed it before
putting it in to remove the dust.

Tim

RedForeman ©® wrote:

Are you an advanced aquarist or a beginner? the OP is a beginner, and
wanting to start out with soil covered with flourite.... I know, I've
been
told be many that it is a bad idea for a beginner...

Potential problems
Additives in the soil, Potting soil HAS additives, Top Soils don't...
Some have vermiculite, some dont
Some have pesticides, some dont
Some people think you can just add dirt.... wrong.
Some asked about peat... not a good idea either...
Some have urea, MAJOR ammonia problem there... but plants love it...fish
won't.

"Soji John" wrote in message
...

Most of the soil is denser than water. some of it
(such as the peat) may be lighter. It is true
that once the soil layer is disturbed it will
cause a turbidity problem. I try not to do this
and as of now it hasn't been an issue. Any other
problems that you know of?

Thanks,

-soji

Dunter Powries wrote:

You asked, you got an answer, you argued... fair game.

Seriously, you've got a lighter-than-water substance weighted down by
gravel. How long do you think you can go with having to move a plant,

and

what happens when you disturb the gravel barrier. Better to think of
it

now

than later.

Joe Zoolan wrote in message
...

Dunter...sorry to be so stupid. I guess reporting what I've read in

100

other posts over the past 2 weeks isn't good enough for you. Thanks

for

the constructive feedback...

Tim

Dunter Powries wrote:

joe wrote in message

...

...the light nature of the stuff, which is resolved with
the gravel layer on top...


Ha ha ha ha ha ha! Oh, my.








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News==----
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Newsgroups
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=---

joe wrote in message ...

Everything I have read supported Schultz Aquatic Plant Soil as a good
medium.
For every bad posting I found 10 good ones
I just need to keep my startup costs down.

That's cool... Do plenty of research/reading... and make your own
decisions. I did the same thing when I decided to go the
flourite/soil/heating cables route; so I totally respect that!

Two things to consider though...
1. Your plan is to use the Schultz soil underneath a layer of gravel
because it will float if exposed. One thing you have to keep in mind
with a plant tank is that you will invariably stir up the substrate
during replants. Trust me, you are not going to get the perfect layout
on your first attempt... And even if you could -- likely you will want
to add a plant here and there after it's set up. All this movement
will eventually uncover some of the "soil" and it will float.

2. Remember this is a long-term choice you are making! Partially in
reference to #1 above, but keep in mind that it's a really big deal to
break down a heavily planted tank and restart it with another choice
in substrate. Took me a full day saturday (12+ hrs) which doesn't take
into account the prepwork before, and cleanup after.

I also considered the Schultz route, even sampled a bit from a pond
retailer who had an open bag. I concluded it was just not for me. BTW:
I didn't find many positive... or negative... comments on this as a
medium for the aquarium. I researched for a good deal longer than two
weeks, and still could not find much opinion for the application.

On a side note -- If we are all so sure this medium will float in the
aquarium environment then how do the pond folks deal with the issue?
Certainly it must float in the pond as well? Maybe because that
environment is largely a container-based planting (with gravel as a
top layer of each pot) as opposed to a wall-to-wall substrate?

Soji John wrote in message ...
I have heard several of you mention the problem of
soil in aquarium. I have used it with no ill
effects that I know of.

Yes, I've been wondering where all the negativity towards soil comes
from too. I have topsoil (from my backyard) covered with a layer of
sand in my 125 gallon. I did have some trouble with algae the first
two months, but this is hardly unique to soil tanks.

Now that it's settled down, the tank is great. The pH is perfectly
stable, nitrate levels are perfectly stable, plants are growing
vigorously without CO2 injection.

People who are scared of soil should read Diana Walstad's book,
"Ecology of the Planted Aquarium." It explains very well why soil is a
good substrate choice.

- Jim

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 15:45:03 -0600, joe wrote:

the gravel layer on top). My Profile under gravel mix seemed to be the
most succesful and highly recommended conbination. As far as real
'potting soil' (dirt based stuff), I agree...not a good starter's choice.

I've done the same thing. Profile works fine, but I am not fond of
the color, so I tried mixing it with Flourite. It looked good for a
while, but it seperated over time.

In my quarentine tank, I've got straight profile, and the plants in
there are doing fine. It is lighter weight, and plants do get more
easily uprooted.


Chuck Gadd
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua

Schultz Aquatic Plant Soil is not really "dirt" its kiln dried "fractured"
clay. It is also sold under the name "Profile". You can read about both in
"thekrib" as I did long ago. I set my tank up using profile as my base and
fluorite on top. Both products are VERY dusty. I just gave up washing them
after the 20th rinse and let the dust settle. I bought a 50lb bag of profile
for about $6.00 at Caudill Seed Company in Louisville, KY. Schultz Aquatic
Plant Soil costs about $16-$17 for a 16lb bag at Lowes. I promise they are
IDENTICAL substances.

Schultz Aquatic Plant Soil (Profile) is not a pretty substrate to look
at....unless you like the color of washed out clay pots. Mine has mixed in
with the fluorite a little and it looks like it belongs. its lighter than
fluorite but its still on the bottom in most places.

Schultz Aquatic Plant Soil or "Profile" is used in hydroponics gardening
also. But the main purpose Profile is sold for is as a soil additive for
baseball or football fields and golf courses. It improves drainage while
retaining some moisture itself.. Very much like adding peat moss does.

BTW, I am so glad Red takes time to post in here. He's been a help to me and
I think he's only a state away. I ALWAYS read what you write Red. Thanks
for the time. :-)

Jim

"joe" wrote in message ...
Just a quick clarification, as I think there are some misconceptions...

1) As the OP, I'm not a beginnner aquarist, just a beginner with planted
tanks. I've been keeping fish on and off for 15 years.

2) The stuff I'm using is not 'soil' in the terrestrial use of the word.
Per the manufacturer, it is 'Made from a kiln-fired 100% mineral
substance, contains no peat moss or compost that can break down, cloud
water or float around to clog filters and pumps.'. It doesn't have any
of those things you mentioned either, such as additives.

3) I have stirred it around since it was installed, and while it does
move relatively easily, it settled right back down. No couldiness was
generated, I'm sure in large part because I thoroughly washed it before
putting it in to remove the dust.

Tim

RedForeman ©® wrote:

Are you an advanced aquarist or a beginner? the OP is a beginner, and
wanting to start out with soil covered with flourite.... I know, I've
been
told be many that it is a bad idea for a beginner...

Potential problems
Additives in the soil, Potting soil HAS additives, Top Soils don't...
Some have vermiculite, some dont
Some have pesticides, some dont
Some people think you can just add dirt.... wrong.
Some asked about peat... not a good idea either...
Some have urea, MAJOR ammonia problem there... but plants love it...fish
won't.

"Soji John" wrote in message
...

Most of the soil is denser than water. some of it
(such as the peat) may be lighter. It is true
that once the soil layer is disturbed it will
cause a turbidity problem. I try not to do this
and as of now it hasn't been an issue. Any other
problems that you know of?

Thanks,

-soji

Dunter Powries wrote:

You asked, you got an answer, you argued... fair game.

Seriously, you've got a lighter-than-water substance weighted down by
gravel. How long do you think you can go with having to move a plant,

and

what happens when you disturb the gravel barrier. Better to think of
it

now

than later.

Joe Zoolan wrote in message
...

Dunter...sorry to be so stupid. I guess reporting what I've read in

100

other posts over the past 2 weeks isn't good enough for you. Thanks

for

the constructive feedback...

Tim

Dunter Powries wrote:

joe wrote in message

...

...the light nature of the stuff, which is resolved with
the gravel layer on top...


Ha ha ha ha ha ha! Oh, my.








----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
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Newsgroups
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=---

"Jimmy" wrote in message
Schultz Aquatic Plant Soil is not really "dirt" its kiln dried
"fractured"
clay. It is also sold under the name "Profile". You can read about both in
"thekrib" as I did long ago. I set my tank up using profile as my base and
fluorite on top. Both products are VERY dusty. I just gave up washing them
after the 20th rinse and let the dust settle. I bought a 50lb bag of
profile
for about $6.00 at Caudill Seed Company in Louisville, KY. Schultz Aquatic
Plant Soil costs about $16-$17 for a 16lb bag at Lowes. I promise they are
IDENTICAL substances.

Schultz Aquatic Plant Soil (Profile) is not a pretty substrate to look
at....unless you like the color of washed out clay pots. Mine has mixed in
with the fluorite a little and it looks like it belongs. its lighter than
fluorite but its still on the bottom in most places.

Schultz Aquatic Plant Soil or "Profile" is used in hydroponics gardening
also. But the main purpose Profile is sold for is as a soil additive for
baseball or football fields and golf courses. It improves drainage while
retaining some moisture itself.. Very much like adding peat moss does.

BTW, I am so glad Red takes time to post in here. He's been a help to me
and
I think he's only a state away. I ALWAYS read what you write Red. Thanks
for the time. :-)

Jim

One of these days I'm gonna take that risk and try soil.... but until then,
I'll advocate it for advanced ppl, NOT like me...

thanks jimmy....

What do you think if I I take a clay pot, put some moss in the bottom ( to
cover the hole), then some soil from the yard, insert my plant, then cover
with florite, finally place in tank........



One of these days I'm gonna take that risk and try soil.... but until
then,
I'll advocate it for advanced ppl, NOT like me...

thanks jimmy....

maybe soaking it without the plant for a day, in a bucket, then test the
water to see if anything is coming from the soil, whether the pH changes,
trAtes, and trItes.... if no ill effects, sure... I've thought about just
soil and flourite 50/50 ina pot before, but if I had the time.....

Good luck, give us an update on what you find out...

"Jimmy" wrote in message
news:VO2qb.110115$HS4.951270@attbi_s01...
What do you think if I I take a clay pot, put some moss in the bottom (
to
cover the hole), then some soil from the yard, insert my plant, then cover
with florite, finally place in tank........



One of these days I'm gonna take that risk and try soil.... but until
then,
I'll advocate it for advanced ppl, NOT like me...

thanks jimmy....