Well this sounds like very good news for me. I have almost 0% interest in
breeding. So that is not a concern I was only fearing that some of the fish
may die from the high pH. On the bright side its very stable and I doubt it
will fluctate much even when I start adding CO2 which I will start when I
get 1 more watt per gallon and a plant that does not grow insanely fast like
the 2 kinds I currently have.

Its good to hear that it was a myth that plants "need" low pH, cause I was
looking at a plant distrubutors site and they only listed like 2 or 3 plants
that would be ok in higher pH. Thanks for taking the time to respond as I
wanted to know now before I spead too much time and money only to find out
that my garbage can turned into a storage container for dead plants.


" wrote in message
om...
For the fish you want to keep: you don't need the RO, unless breeding
is a serious desire.

Use the tap, it's fine. Add CO2 and don't worry about PO4. You may
need to add PO4 in relatively small amounts, the PO4 they add to water
systems/or that may be present in well water etc is not enough to have
a significant effect on the pH/KH issue except perhaps in very extreme
cases.

Using pH buffers is complelety out for a simple reason, plants do not
grow on "buffer" and plants are not made up of 40+% dry weight
"buffer", they are made up of 40% + of Carbon.

So add what the plants need, CO2, the plants do not care about pH,
they do care about good CO2. A plant will grow just as well if not
better at a pH of 7.4 and a KH of 20 as it will at a pH 6.4 and a KH
of 2.

Both pH/KH's above have 24ppm of CO2.

It is a _myth_ that plants "prefer" soft water.
If you want the plants to grow better, add CO2.

You may want RO for the fish, but it's not anything anyone needs for
the plants.

I've been through this with dozens upon dozens of people over the
years and they now have plain tap water, Cardinals, Rummy noses all
doing great in their hard tap water, and my own tanks have had very
hard tap water in the past also and these same fish.

Some folks needed me to tell them you don't need RO 25x before they
got it, but a few years later they thank you.

I've done this myself and am not citing some myth ridden books of
years past. If you claim to know of a soft water only true submersed
growth plant, I'd like to hear about it. I've raised 250+ species and
ain't found one yet.

Regards,
Tom Barr

"Shakey" wrote in message ...
Well this sounds like very good news for me. I have almost 0% interest in
breeding. So that is not a concern I was only fearing that some of the fish
may die from the high pH. On the bright side its very stable and I doubt it
will fluctate much even when I start adding CO2 which I will start when I
get 1 more watt per gallon and a plant that does not grow insanely fast like
the 2 kinds I currently have.

Well the fish may do a bit better but I have always felt that good
food and general conditions, low NO3, low organic matter, clean water
basically is provided, lots of cover, moderate reasonable stocking
levels, good community of fish etc are far more important to the over
all long term health.

Since you like AF cichlids also, there's no rule you cannot have some
smaller Lamps etc in there instead of the Tetras. There are other
suitable species to consider, don't limit yourself.

A pH of 7.2 to 7.4 is not bad, but the GH/KH is more what concerns
fish, not so much the pH which is lowered by dosing CO2(the GH and KH
remain unchanged/constant). Several folks I know and myself have
raised tetras etc in hard water. Fish had nothing less than excellent
health for several years.

Its good to hear that it was a myth that plants "need" low pH, cause I was
looking at a plant distrubutors site and they only listed like 2 or 3 plants
that would be ok in higher pH. Thanks for taking the time to respond as I
wanted to know now before I spead too much time and money only to find out
that my garbage can turned into a storage container for dead plants.

Well, if you use CO2, dose a few nutrients, do not get too much light
ot start off with, you'll do well.

If you keep FW tanks, it pays to stick with whjatever tap water you
have so you can use the water changes to your advantage(Both fish and
plants like water changes generally).

Insisting on RO limits this and adds unneeded work and it's never for
the benefits of the plants.

If you want to spend $ to improve plant health/growth, add CO2. You'll
get more plant per $. Dosing the other 4 basic mixes is easy and very
cheap once you have gas CO2.

Look into CO2 for now. The other stuff is easier. Do not get a bunch
of light also. Stick with 2w/gal.

Regards,
Tom Barr