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What Can I Legally Say?
Hello
I received BAD service from an online plant dealer. The site was incorrect about what they had in stock, the plants were shipped 2 weeks late and they won't respond to my emails or phone calls. I also received melted plants. What can I say or write without getting myself sued. N8 |
What Can I Legally Say?
me and the wife were talking about all that sueing that is going on, and the
legal maneuvering crap... personally, I am not one for worrying about what I say, I 'hide' behind "freedom of speech" and I won't name names.... Maybe you could call it a friendly warning = bad service, bad shipping and we'll all take the 'hint'.... persay... who was it? -- RedForeman ©® "Nsty N8" wrote in message ... Hello I received BAD service from an online plant dealer. The site was incorrect about what they had in stock, the plants were shipped 2 weeks late and they won't respond to my emails or phone calls. I also received melted plants. What can I say or write without getting myself sued. N8 |
What Can I Legally Say?
Nsty N8 wrote in message
... Hello I received BAD service from an online plant dealer. The site was incorrect about what they had in stock, the plants were shipped 2 weeks late and they won't respond to my emails or phone calls. I also received melted plants. What can I say or write without getting myself sued. You can state anything that actually-factually happened, and your own first-person opinion concerning it. In other words, you can say, "my plants were late and it made me sad," but you should probably not say, "I think they did it on purpose because they're dickheads and so does everyone else" |
What Can I Legally Say?
Well, unfortunately, you cam be sued for anything by anyone.
And even a baseless suit (like the Petswhorehouse suits) can run serious bucks to defend against. You may not want to post anything in an open forum like this. Alot depends on how trigger happy the company is. -coelacanth "Nsty N8" wrote in message ... Hello I received BAD service from an online plant dealer. The site was incorrect about what they had in stock, the plants were shipped 2 weeks late and they won't respond to my emails or phone calls. I also received melted plants. What can I say or write without getting myself sued. N8 |
What Can I Legally Say?
(Nsty N8) wrote:
What can I say or write without getting myself sued. In addition to my other comments, you have the option of posting anonymously, for example via Google using a throw-away Hotmail account. You can still be tracked down via IP address, but doing so requires a good amount of technical expertise, and possibly the co-operation of one or more ISPs - in other words, it puts an up-front burden on the company to even attempt the lawsuit, which will stop the less rabid sorts from pursuing it. On the other hand, comments made by anonymous posters, unless they're well-established and respected in a group by some screen name, are less likely to be taken seriously by the average group reader. For example, NetMax is fairly anonymous, but highly respected - anything he says carries a large level of credibility - whereas a newcomer who appears to have shown up for no other reason than to gripe would be largely ignored. -- www.ericschreiber.com |
What Can I Legally Say?
On 14 Jan 2004, the world was enlightened by Nsty N8's opinion about...
Hello I received BAD service from an online plant dealer. The site was incorrect about what they had in stock, the plants were shipped 2 weeks late and they won't respond to my emails or phone calls. I also received melted plants. What can I say or write without getting myself sued. N8 Along with what the others said - Do you know which state/country the e-tailer resides in? You may want to try writing to the Better Business Bureau (or equivalent) in that state or that state's consumer affairs office. Also, does your local newspaper/TV station(s) have a consumer help line? They can be *very* effective in getting you a refund or replacement plants. It'll help if you've got pictures of the melted plants, the tracking history from the shipper and the online/email confirmation of your order. hth, kev -- Civilization. An organized system of alternatives to the stone age - CJCherryh |
What Can I Legally Say?
I agree with Eric.
In practice, a company won't sue anyone just to recover costs or lost opportunities unless they believe you have a lot of money or are insurred against this type of thing. Usuallyany law suit would simply be to scare you aware or to prevent others from saying anything similar. If you do have enough money to be worth sueing, then say whatever you like and let then sue. The odds are that they will not follow through because they know they will be out of business before the thing has worked its way through the courts. If you don't have any money, then say whatever you like and let them sue. Just let the legal system take its process and do everything yourself. It will take just as long and again they will be out of business before the case gets resolved. In other words - they are just bluffing. I'm an Australian, but I assume the same holds true in America. It is very traumatic the first time you get sued. However, if you just relax and treat it as an adventure, it can be fun. Don't believe the LA Law shows and other TV junk. Most magistrates and judges see right through the nonsense that is thrown up by agressive lawyers and manage to take the side of the little guy who is being picked on. In your case, even if you managed to lose the case, the damages would be almost nothing. The best part of letting someone else take you to court is that you have to spend a few hours watching other cases and you learn a lot about how the system works. As you can tell, I have been involved in a few law suits. A few have been legitimate business cases that have given me ulcers - but most have been very entertaining. Jim Eric Schreiber wrote in message ... (Nsty N8) wrote: I received BAD service from an online plant dealer. The site was incorrect about what they had in stock, the plants were shipped 2 weeks late and they won't respond to my emails or phone calls. I also received melted plants. What can I say or write without getting myself sued. Unfortunately, there is very little correlation between what you can legally say and what you can be sued for saying. Anyone with the inclination can bring a lawsuit for just about any absurd crap. They may not win it, but that's often not the point - their intent is more to hassle, harass, and stifle other complaints. My personal opinion, and I'm a hotheaded computer geek, not a lawyer, is to say what you want, but stick very clearly to the indisputable facts ('site said item x was in stock', 'promised shipping date was', 'actual shipping date was', 'sent email on Monday', etc). Back everything up with documentation if you can. When you state an opinion, be clear that it is only your opinion. This won't protect you from some disreputable, unscrupulous person or company suing you - nothing will if you choose to speak - but it will make the potential cost for them higher. Their own reputation is going to be far more damaged by bringing a lawsuit over factual comments (see PetsWarehouse fiasco) than the comments themselves ever were, and their chances of losing or being tossed out of court by an even moderately intelligent judge will be higher. -- www.ericschreiber.com |
What Can I Legally Say?
Forget my previous posting. I was assuming certain things that may not be
true. When something like that happens, always give the supplier the benefit of the doubt. Assume that he is just an overworked guy who is trying his best but just can't cope. Write him a nice letter or email and explain nicely what happenned. You may be very pleasantly surprised by the response - particularly if others are giving him hell when he is just trying to do his best. If he doesn't give you satisfaction, then you can begin telling others on the net about your bad experiences. If you just attack him and he believes he is in the right, that is the time you could find yourself in the middle of a serious lawsuit. Put yourself in his shoes first. Jim Eric Schreiber wrote in message ... (Nsty N8) wrote: I received BAD service from an online plant dealer. The site was incorrect about what they had in stock, the plants were shipped 2 weeks late and they won't respond to my emails or phone calls. I also received melted plants. What can I say or write without getting myself sued. Unfortunately, there is very little correlation between what you can legally say and what you can be sued for saying. Anyone with the inclination can bring a lawsuit for just about any absurd crap. They may not win it, but that's often not the point - their intent is more to hassle, harass, and stifle other complaints. My personal opinion, and I'm a hotheaded computer geek, not a lawyer, is to say what you want, but stick very clearly to the indisputable facts ('site said item x was in stock', 'promised shipping date was', 'actual shipping date was', 'sent email on Monday', etc). Back everything up with documentation if you can. When you state an opinion, be clear that it is only your opinion. This won't protect you from some disreputable, unscrupulous person or company suing you - nothing will if you choose to speak - but it will make the potential cost for them higher. Their own reputation is going to be far more damaged by bringing a lawsuit over factual comments (see PetsWarehouse fiasco) than the comments themselves ever were, and their chances of losing or being tossed out of court by an even moderately intelligent judge will be higher. -- www.ericschreiber.com |
What Can I Legally Say?
"Jim Morcombe" wrote:
I'm an Australian, but I assume the same holds true in America. Probably, but I suspect that America holds the world title for Really Stupid Lawsuit Abuse. It's damn near the national pastime. -- www.ericschreiber.com |
What Can I Legally Say?
"Jim Morcombe" wrote:
Forget my previous posting. Do I have to? It was a lot more fun :) -- www.ericschreiber.com |
What Can I Legally Say?
"Eric Schreiber" wrote in message ... "Jim Morcombe" wrote: I'm an Australian, but I assume the same holds true in America. Probably, but I suspect that America holds the world title for Really Stupid Lawsuit Abuse. It's damn near the national pastime. -- www.ericschreiber.com Before you shoot your mouth off, take a good read at this: http://petsforum.com/psw/ Regardless of the appropriateness of what you say, a vendor who is unhappy with what you post can file a suit and cause you to spend money on attorney defense. Tread carefully. -- Bob Alston bobalston9 AT aol DOT com |
What Can I Legally Say?
"Bob Alston" wrote:
Regardless of the appropriateness of what you say, a vendor who is unhappy with what you post can file a suit and cause you to spend money on attorney defense. Tread carefully. Yes, Bob, that was kind of the gist of most of the replies in the thread. -- www.ericschreiber.com |
What Can I Legally Say?
On 14 Jan 2004 16:42:59 GMT, (Nsty N8) wrote:
What can I say or write without getting myself sued. You can't say ANYTHING. In fact, you don't even need to say anything, someone can still sue you. I could file a lawsuit against you right now. And if I acted as my own attorney, it wouldn't cost me very much (just the filing fees). Anyone can sue ANYONE at ANY TIME for ANY REASON. Eventually, the very slow wheels of justice will straighten things out, but until then, it's a painful process. Chuck Gadd http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua |
What Can I Legally Say?
I have looked at the site and at the law suits that have gone on. However,
I fail to see where the costs are involved. It is true that lawyers have been involved and that legal fees are horrendous. However, it is Robert Novak who is mentioned as having the legal fees. You don't need a lawyer to refute stupid law suits like this one. (Although the lawyers and the LA Law shows tell you that only an idiot goes to court without one). Don't let lawyers scare you into treading lightly. Just do the right thing and you are safe from law suits. If someone does the wrong thing in business, he can't use the law to shut you up. The court fees and the legal fees might become massive, but he will end up paying them. Jim Bob Alston wrote in message news:g5pNb.1691$AA6.763@fed1read03... "Eric Schreiber" wrote in message ... "Jim Morcombe" wrote: I'm an Australian, but I assume the same holds true in America. Probably, but I suspect that America holds the world title for Really Stupid Lawsuit Abuse. It's damn near the national pastime. -- www.ericschreiber.com Before you shoot your mouth off, take a good read at this: http://petsforum.com/psw/ Regardless of the appropriateness of what you say, a vendor who is unhappy with what you post can file a suit and cause you to spend money on attorney defense. Tread carefully. -- Bob Alston bobalston9 AT aol DOT com |
What Can I Legally Say?
I think the final Memorandum & Order makes it quite clear that we can say
what we want to say without threat of a law suit. The judge literally through all but one of the cases out of court and included a few sarcastic comments. Jim Bob Alston wrote in message news:g5pNb.1691$AA6.763@fed1read03... "Eric Schreiber" wrote in message ... "Jim Morcombe" wrote: I'm an Australian, but I assume the same holds true in America. Probably, but I suspect that America holds the world title for Really Stupid Lawsuit Abuse. It's damn near the national pastime. -- www.ericschreiber.com Before you shoot your mouth off, take a good read at this: http://petsforum.com/psw/ Regardless of the appropriateness of what you say, a vendor who is unhappy with what you post can file a suit and cause you to spend money on attorney defense. Tread carefully. -- Bob Alston bobalston9 AT aol DOT com |
What Can I Legally Say?
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What Can I Legally Say?
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What Can I Legally Say?
Tell me who and what and I will say it !
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What Can I Legally Say?
I was in ARIZONA once, to see the GARDENS... but they were not open....
you could always, 'mask it up' a bit, so as to not 'say' anything 'not good' about a certain 'insert company here' that you dont want to 'implicate yourself' just goofin'... -- RedForeman ©® "Bol Bitis" wrote in message om... (Nsty N8) wrote in message ... Hello I received BAD service from an online plant dealer. The site was incorrect about what they had in stock, the plants were shipped 2 weeks late and they won't respond to my emails or phone calls. I also received melted plants. What can I say or write without getting myself sued. N8 N8-IMO, and my son's, who is a lawyer, you can get sued for anything, or even nothing if the other party wants to sue you, they will. Getting justice is possible, but unfortunately slow and expensive. As far as your dilema, it would be helpful to hear who it was, what happened, and what attempts they made to make it right. To assist you, you could post anonymously using Goggle, via a throwaway email account at say yahoo, via a proxy server which is what I'm doing for this post. While it is possible for someone to track you down, it is very difficult to do so when this technique is used. BTW-was the online vendor located in a state that has a city named Phoenix in it? Bolbitis |
What Can I Legally Say?
I was in ARIZONA once, to see the GARDENS... but they were not open....
you could always, 'mask it up' a bit, so as to not 'say' anything 'not good' about a certain 'insert company here' that you dont want to 'implicate yourself' just goofin'... -- RedForeman ©® "Bol Bitis" wrote in message om... (Nsty N8) wrote in message ... Hello I received BAD service from an online plant dealer. The site was incorrect about what they had in stock, the plants were shipped 2 weeks late and they won't respond to my emails or phone calls. I also received melted plants. What can I say or write without getting myself sued. N8 N8-IMO, and my son's, who is a lawyer, you can get sued for anything, or even nothing if the other party wants to sue you, they will. Getting justice is possible, but unfortunately slow and expensive. As far as your dilema, it would be helpful to hear who it was, what happened, and what attempts they made to make it right. To assist you, you could post anonymously using Goggle, via a throwaway email account at say yahoo, via a proxy server which is what I'm doing for this post. While it is possible for someone to track you down, it is very difficult to do so when this technique is used. BTW-was the online vendor located in a state that has a city named Phoenix in it? Bolbitis |
What Can I Legally Say?
On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 16:49:10 +0800, "Jim Morcombe"
wrote: I think the final Memorandum & Order makes it quite clear that we can say what we want to say without threat of a law suit. The judge literally through all but one of the cases out of court and included a few sarcastic comments. And it cost each of the defendant at least several thousand dollars to get to that point. The second lawsuit started in May 2001, and the judge hasn't even begun to evaluate if there is any merit to the case. Chuck Gadd http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua |
What Can I Legally Say?
"Eric Schreiber" wrote
NetMax is fairly anonymous, but highly respected - anything he says carries a large level of credibility I always assumed he was a she. Don't know why. -- Graham Ramsay Learn about the work of the JREF www.randi.org |
What Can I Legally Say?
"Graham Ramsay" wrote:
I always assumed he was a she. Don't know why. Ain't anonymity a wondrous thing? :) -- www.ericschreiber.com |
What Can I Legally Say?
"Eric Schreiber" wrote in message ... (Nsty N8) wrote: What can I say or write without getting myself sued. In addition to my other comments, you have the option of posting anonymously, for example via Google using a throw-away Hotmail account. You can still be tracked down via IP address, but doing so requires a good amount of technical expertise, and possibly the co-operation of one or more ISPs - in other words, it puts an up-front burden on the company to even attempt the lawsuit, which will stop the less rabid sorts from pursuing it. On the other hand, comments made by anonymous posters, unless they're well-established and respected in a group by some screen name, are less likely to be taken seriously by the average group reader. For example, NetMax is fairly anonymous, but highly respected - anything he says carries a large level of credibility - whereas a newcomer who appears to have shown up for no other reason than to gripe would be largely ignored. Whew! considering the source of the remark, and the calibre of the people in this newsgroup, that's quite a compliment, thanks! I hate being anonymous, but I hate spam more (and me with a slow dial-up too). My hotmail account fills to maximum (sorry if legitimate emails have trouble getting through), and I just trim off the top 5% to keep it active. As for Graham pondering whether I'm a guy or gal, my beard would give that one away quickly ;~) I'm sorry I can't add anything useful to this thread. In Canada, I think that you could probably stay out of trouble if you kept to verifiable facts, and presented your case objectively, but I have no legal background, and it varies by country, so I'll just mostly read along. Personally I think that litigation is the last resort of inflexible and unimaginative people. What is certain, is that litigation starts as a financial & emotional burden which ignores who is right and who is wrong, (and from there, it goes downhill ;~), and my regards go out to all hobbyists (buyers or vendors) who find themselves involved. NetMax -- www.ericschreiber.com |
What Can I Legally Say?
"NetMax" wrote:
Whew! considering the source of the remark, and the calibre of the people in this newsgroup, that's quite a compliment, thanks! Bah! The source is just some mope who likes playing on Usenet almost as much as he likes fish. I try to help out when I know an answer but with only about 14 months (this time) in the hobby I'm still a newbie. But anyway, you're welcome. You deserve the compliment. I hate being anonymous, but I hate spam more (and me with a slow dial-up too). I get in the neighborhood of 250 spams per day (no, that's not an accidental zero on the end of that number) so I sympathize. I've got DSL and some really good filtering software (www.spamal.org) so the situation is tolerable, but via a dial-up I wouldn't be able to stand it. -- www.ericschreiber.com |
What Can I Legally Say?
On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 06:39:34 UTC, Chuck Gadd wrote:
On 14 Jan 2004 16:42:59 GMT, (Nsty N8) wrote: What can I say or write without getting myself sued. You can't say ANYTHING. In fact, you don't even need to say anything, someone can still sue you. I could file a lawsuit against you right now. And if I acted as my own attorney, it wouldn't cost me very much (just the filing fees). Anyone can sue ANYONE at ANY TIME for ANY REASON. Eventually, the very slow wheels of justice will straighten things out, but until then, it's a painful process. Very true. OTOH everyone seems to have forgotten the subject line: "What Can I Legally Say?" Answer: You can _legally_ say anything that's true. Truth is a complete defense against libel, under the law. (Honest mistakes can also be legal, but I don't suppose anyone is planning to make any.) What you can _practically_ say without serious fear of frivolous lawsuits is another matter. -- Dan Drake http://www.dandrake.com Human rights in Cuba: 600 prisoners held 18 months and more, without charge, without bail, without counsel, facing trial by secret special tribunals with power to impose the death penalty. And that's just one place. Guantanamo. |
What Can I Legally Say?
the question about libel, has been discussed on other news groups
in great depth, and I personal know on one person who looked into the question of suing someone,, After he learned just how complex the issue is , he just went away and made a doll, which he know sticks pins into. Unless you have a large amount of money, and plenty of time forget all about it.. If Jo Blow tells everyone on the internet via a news group, that you have a square head, to sue the person for libel, you will need to serve EVERY ISP news server, that carried the supposed libel, at exactly the same time, with court appearance papers, WORLD WIDE. Simple because if one ISP carried the libel, He alone cannot be considered guilty on his own, regardless of where and which ISP excepted the original post // message. About the only thing you can do, also with a small degree of success, is attempt to report the offender to his home ISP, If you can find it, locate it, and positively identify the offender by his e-mail address, which in a lot of cases is near impossable, If the offender goes between different servers, free or otherwise, to get his message across... bassett "Eric Schreiber" wrote in message ... "NetMax" wrote: Whew! considering the source of the remark, and the calibre of the people in this newsgroup, that's quite a compliment, thanks! Bah! The source is just some mope who likes playing on Usenet almost as much as he likes fish. I try to help out when I know an answer but with only about 14 months (this time) in the hobby I'm still a newbie. But anyway, you're welcome. You deserve the compliment. I hate being anonymous, but I hate spam more (and me with a slow dial-up too). I get in the neighborhood of 250 spams per day (no, that's not an accidental zero on the end of that number) so I sympathize. I've got DSL and some really good filtering software (www.spamal.org) so the situation is tolerable, but via a dial-up I wouldn't be able to stand it. -- www.ericschreiber.com |
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