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Old 10-03-2004, 05:01 PM
Nemo
 
Posts: n/a
Default SeaChem Flourish Overdose Blues

I think I should get paid for the tank I keep, or at least have it declared
a "national resource of significant scientific interest" . Why? Because I
grow every kind of algae known to aquarists in this tank of mine in some
quantity.

All is good, however. We are only talking a few strands/clumps/spots here
and there. Last Saturday, however, I blew it.

I'm not very good at this hobby. I only started a few months ago. Luckily,
however, I'm eager and willing to learn. And, by-and-large, there is a lot
of good information on the net that is helpful to newbies like me. But it
gets quite confusing at times.

One of the most talked about strategies of controlling algae is that which
promotes the PMDD routine. It made sense to me, and I decided to start
mimicking the experts. Over a period of a week, I eliminated excess
phosphates (dosed with Alum), and raised NO3 and K levels to 5-10 ppm and
10-20 ppm respectively. Then I read that, at these macro nutrient levels,
dosing 2-3 times the recommended Flourish amount should be safe (and
desired). So last Saturday, after a 25% water change, I dosed the NO3, K,
and one drop of Sodium Phosphate (Fleet Enema) in the change water, together
with a whopping 5 mL of Flourish (the entire weekly recommended dose).
Within hours, I had green beard algae spreading like fire in a dry forest.
I had other kinds of algae growing too, but green beard algae was dominant.
It has been slowly overtaking my tank ever since. The cleanup crew of 5 Otos
and 3 SAE cannot keep up (also also have 1 glass shrimp and 3 platys, all of
which are algae eaters).

So was it the iron, or was it the phosphate?

I have read several reports on the internet of people experiencing similar
blooms of green beard algae due to an overdose of iron (as in Flourish)!
Any similar experiences?



  #2   Report Post  
Old 10-03-2004, 05:05 PM
RedForeman
 
Posts: n/a
Default SeaChem Flourish Overdose Blues

"Nemo" wrote in message
...
I think I should get paid for the tank I keep, or at least have it

declared
a "national resource of significant scientific interest" . Why? Because

I
grow every kind of algae known to aquarists in this tank of mine in some
quantity.

All is good, however. We are only talking a few strands/clumps/spots here
and there. Last Saturday, however, I blew it.

I'm not very good at this hobby. I only started a few months ago. Luckily,
however, I'm eager and willing to learn. And, by-and-large, there is a lot
of good information on the net that is helpful to newbies like me. But

it
gets quite confusing at times.

One of the most talked about strategies of controlling algae is that which
promotes the PMDD routine. It made sense to me, and I decided to start
mimicking the experts. Over a period of a week, I eliminated excess
phosphates (dosed with Alum), and raised NO3 and K levels to 5-10 ppm and
10-20 ppm respectively. Then I read that, at these macro nutrient levels,
dosing 2-3 times the recommended Flourish amount should be safe (and
desired). So last Saturday, after a 25% water change, I dosed the NO3, K,
and one drop of Sodium Phosphate (Fleet Enema) in the change water,

together
with a whopping 5 mL of Flourish (the entire weekly recommended dose).
Within hours, I had green beard algae spreading like fire in a dry forest.
I had other kinds of algae growing too, but green beard algae was

dominant.
It has been slowly overtaking my tank ever since. The cleanup crew of 5

Otos
and 3 SAE cannot keep up (also also have 1 glass shrimp and 3 platys, all

of
which are algae eaters).

So was it the iron, or was it the phosphate?

I have read several reports on the internet of people experiencing similar
blooms of green beard algae due to an overdose of iron (as in Flourish)!
Any similar experiences?


My BBA outbreak came from lack of CO2, lack of PMDD, and a pH crash of
sorts...

NetMax, TomBarr, Bill Kirkpatrick, and several others, have and will be on
my "MUST READ" list, especially when it comes to chemicals and additives and
such...

I've learned that it benefits us ALL for one to ask a broad based question
about situations, then more people can chime in and help. Also, if you get
the chance, ask someone to help you offline if you feel more inclined to
share 'outside' the group.

Needless to say, we're mostly 'all' learning as we go... some are just
further than others... even the experts have problems.... they just choose
not to express it all here...

Recently, I've had to take some drastic measures on my own 29g tank that had
been a guppy nursery of sorts... CO2 ran out, plants died, fish got sick,
add a bunch of other little problems and I had a Black Brush algae/ Red
Brush out break... and it took some 'elbow grease' and hard work, but ended
up going to the beginnings of my brain, and realizing, KISS, Keep it simple
stupid, and the basics will lead you back to where you want/should be...

patience grasshoppa... patience is the key to success.... learning is the
tool to turn the key to happiness...

Good luck

--
RedForeman future fabricator and creator of a ratbike streetfighter!!!

==========================
2003 TRX450ES
1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
1987 TRX250R (sold)
1987 CBR600 Hurricane (sold)
1987 VFR700 Interceptor (sold)
1995 TRX300ex (sold)
2000 CBR600F4 silver/red (sold) *sniff*sniff*
'98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
==========================
`,,`,,`,,`,, `,,`
"By US Code Title 47, Sec.227(a)(2)(B), a computer/modem/printer
meets the definition of a telephone fax machine. By Sec.227(b)(1)(C),
it is unlawful to send any unsolicited advertisement to such equipment.
By Sec.227(b)(3)(C), a violation of the aforementioned Section is
punishable by action to recover actual monetary loss, or $500,
whichever is greater, for each violation."

If you do send me unsolicited e-mail I will proof-read it at a rate
of $100 per hour (4 hour minimum).


  #3   Report Post  
Old 11-03-2004, 01:46 AM
Dave Millman
 
Posts: n/a
Default SeaChem Flourish Overdose Blues

Nemo wrote:

One of the most talked about strategies of controlling algae is that which
promotes the PMDD routine. It made sense to me, and I decided to start
mimicking the experts. Over a period of a week, I eliminated excess
phosphates (dosed with Alum), and raised NO3 and K levels to 5-10 ppm and
10-20 ppm respectively. Then I read that, at these macro nutrient levels,
dosing 2-3 times the recommended Flourish amount should be safe (and
desired). So last Saturday, after a 25% water change, I dosed the NO3, K,
and one drop of Sodium Phosphate (Fleet Enema) in the change water, together
with a whopping 5 mL of Flourish (the entire weekly recommended dose).
Within hours, I had green beard algae spreading like fire in a dry forest.
I had other kinds of algae growing too, but green beard algae was dominant.
It has been slowly overtaking my tank ever since. The cleanup crew of 5 Otos
and 3 SAE cannot keep up (also also have 1 glass shrimp and 3 platys, all of
which are algae eaters).


First of all, it's not clear why you are trying to eliminate Phosphate by dosing
Alum, then dosing Phosphate.

Second, you did not mention CO2. If you are NOT injecting CO2, then you have
dumped a massive overabundance of nutrients (NPK and traces) into your tank. The
recommendations you were reading were aimed at people with high light (3WPG+)
and injected CO2.

Unfortunately, the resources available online do not always distinguish between,
"This strategy works for a high-light, CO2 injected tank" vs "This strategy
works for a non-CO2 injected tank"

To educuate yourself, search Google and Google Groups on the following terms:

Barr Estimative Index
Barr CO2 KNO3
Barr Low Light

This is complicated stuff. But you are not far from understanding it all.

  #4   Report Post  
Old 11-03-2004, 02:09 PM
Nemo
 
Posts: n/a
Default SeaChem Flourish Overdose Blues

"Dave Millman" wrote in message
...

Hi Dave, thanks for your reply

First of all, it's not clear why you are trying to eliminate Phosphate by

dosing
Alum, then dosing Phosphate.


When I started the routine, I have zero NO3 and PO4 readings off the chart.
I dosed alum to bring the PO4 to zero. I dose alum now because it is
non-detactable by the Hagen test kit. The plants need some PO4 to grow; I
only dose a drop.

Second, you did not mention CO2. If you are NOT injecting CO2, then you

have
dumped a massive overabundance of nutrients (NPK and traces) into your

tank. The
recommendations you were reading were aimed at people with high light

(3WPG+)
and injected CO2.


I dose CO2 using a DIY setup injected right into the intake of an Eheim 2213
cansiter with a spray bar. My CO2 levels are estimated at 20-30 ppm using
the available CO2-pH-kH charts (kH = 3-4, pH = 6.6-6.8). My light level is
3.7 WPG using four 6500K CF bulbs mounted on a DIY canopy (no reflector
other than white paint).

[ ... ]

To educuate yourself, search Google and Google Groups on the following

terms:

Barr Estimative Index
Barr CO2 KNO3
Barr Low Light


I have read many articles for Tom Barr on this NG and elsewhere on the net.
There are other excellent contributers as well. This is why I hang around
this place . Thanks for the references though.


  #5   Report Post  
Old 11-03-2004, 02:14 PM
Nemo
 
Posts: n/a
Default SeaChem Flourish Overdose Blues

"RedForeman " wrote in message
...

[ ... ]

NetMax, TomBarr, Bill Kirkpatrick, and several others, have and will be on
my "MUST READ" list, especially when it comes to chemicals and additives

and
such...


One can't miss the stars in the dark sky of the night .

[ ... ] but ended
up going to the beginnings of my brain, and realizing, KISS, Keep it

simple
stupid, and the basics will lead you back to where you want/should be...


patience grasshoppa... patience is the key to success.... learning is the
tool to turn the key to happiness...

Good luck


Thanks!




  #6   Report Post  
Old 11-03-2004, 02:14 PM
Nemo
 
Posts: n/a
Default SeaChem Flourish Overdose Blues

"Dave Millman" wrote in message
...

Hi Dave, thanks for your reply

First of all, it's not clear why you are trying to eliminate Phosphate by

dosing
Alum, then dosing Phosphate.


When I started the routine, I have zero NO3 and PO4 readings off the chart.
I dosed alum to bring the PO4 to zero. I dose alum now because it is
non-detactable by the Hagen test kit. The plants need some PO4 to grow; I
only dose a drop.

Second, you did not mention CO2. If you are NOT injecting CO2, then you

have
dumped a massive overabundance of nutrients (NPK and traces) into your

tank. The
recommendations you were reading were aimed at people with high light

(3WPG+)
and injected CO2.


I dose CO2 using a DIY setup injected right into the intake of an Eheim 2213
cansiter with a spray bar. My CO2 levels are estimated at 20-30 ppm using
the available CO2-pH-kH charts (kH = 3-4, pH = 6.6-6.8). My light level is
3.7 WPG using four 6500K CF bulbs mounted on a DIY canopy (no reflector
other than white paint).

[ ... ]

To educuate yourself, search Google and Google Groups on the following

terms:

Barr Estimative Index
Barr CO2 KNO3
Barr Low Light


I have read many articles for Tom Barr on this NG and elsewhere on the net.
There are other excellent contributers as well. This is why I hang around
this place . Thanks for the references though.


  #7   Report Post  
Old 11-03-2004, 02:18 PM
Nemo
 
Posts: n/a
Default SeaChem Flourish Overdose Blues

"RedForeman " wrote in message
...

[ ... ]

NetMax, TomBarr, Bill Kirkpatrick, and several others, have and will be on
my "MUST READ" list, especially when it comes to chemicals and additives

and
such...


One can't miss the stars in the dark sky of the night .

[ ... ] but ended
up going to the beginnings of my brain, and realizing, KISS, Keep it

simple
stupid, and the basics will lead you back to where you want/should be...


patience grasshoppa... patience is the key to success.... learning is the
tool to turn the key to happiness...

Good luck


Thanks!




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