Hi Rick:

Ditto. Glad you can appreciate my position. I am also very grateful for
your feedback. It sounds like bleach is by far the most effective way to
deal with BBA. It has real results. That is the conclusion I have come to
as well.

I agree with everything you say. And that is why I think it is best to
bleach the whole tank in place, after removing the fish of course. That way
I kill the spores in the entire system: gravel, filters, pumbling,
everywhere all in one shot.

I have a question for you. What is your feeling about the reinfestation
potential from moving the fish into another clean water temp tank, and then
moving them back in? Do you feel that is enough to dillute down the BBA
spores from the clean water that minimal will be transported back in when I
return them? Anything else I can do here to help with the fish move?

I just want to make sure that after all this tank filling and draining the
BBA is truely gone. Like you say, I want every BBA spore dead or out of the
system.

When you say it never came back, that is really GREAT news. That's the
result I am hoping for.

Thanks, Chris.

Do a google search through this NG, There's tons of stuff about ferts
dosing.

--
**So long, and thanks for all the fish!**


"Harry Muscle" wrote in message
...
SNIP

Up your nutrients cut back on the length of light. I had plants with
better
growths than my own beard. Cutting out the light doesn't do the
trick....
but increasing my light level to @ 2 watts/gallon, upping the CO2,
cutting
back 10 hrs a day of light, and the Tom Barr method of dosing nutrients
......
slowly did the trick. along with manually trimming the worst of it.

A hydrogen peroxide works well if you want to clean up a more delicate
plants.

Now everything is fine, till I forget something .....;-) or go on
vacation.

bob



Is there a website that elaborates on the Tom Barr method of dosing?

Thanks,
Harry




-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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It has real results. That is the conclusion I have come to
as well.

On the contrary my dear Watson
It has Immediate visual results, but certainly not real.
This is as artificial as they come, you're cheating where's the fun in
that? Go ahead and bleach your plants and equipment, give it a month and
write back and let us know if it has returned. This will be interesting to
know. You're still not dealing with the root cause. Patience is a game that
has more rewarding outcomes! Especially with planted tanks
Good luck.
--
**So long, and thanks for all the fish!**

Is this yeast CO2? If yes, then it's highly recommended to use a
compressed
system on tank this size. But with your lighting, you might get away with
a
yeast system.

I'm very happy with my CO2 system. Bare in mind I have 100% diffusion so
none of it gets wasted. It all goes into the water. I've got CO2 coming
out my ears. More than I need.

- (2) PowerCompact 65W 6700K lights.
That's only 1.3 W/g.

Wattage per gallon is an incomplete rating. Meaningless without considering
lamp efficiency. PowerCompacts are T5 technology - extremely bright. You
cannot compare this by a wattage rating in the day of old T12 technology.
Apples and Oranges. T5's are used to light reef tanks. I've got tons of
light, if anything too much.

Have you used Flourish and potassium at the same time?

Yes, for the last several weeks actually.

Have you measured it both in the morning and in the evening?

Yes, the only thing that changes much is pH, and that by only about 0.2.

An iron test is not really a good indicator or iron availability for
plants
for various reasons. Watch the new leaves of your fast-growing plants. If
they are pale or red, add more Flourish.

I've got bright green shoots coming out everywhere. The fern grew 12 inches
in a week.
I always have O2 bubbles on the leaves.

Do the nitrates naturally increase or decrease?

In the old 55G tank the Nitrates usually ran around 30-40PPM. I liked them
in that range. This new tank does not have much nitrate build up yet.

It doesn't seem like you've really tried focusing on plant health/growth
before.

Really. Well I don't seem to have much problem growing plants.
Just can't stop the BBA from growing along with it.

Chris.

I'm cheating? No I've just got better things to do than beat my head
against the wall wasting my time. If you have weeds in your lawn, do you
think you can get rid of them by controlling how much grass fertilizer you
put on? No, you spray them and kill them. When your fish get sick do you
give them medicine? If they get parasites do you kill them with chemicals?
What's the difference?

IMHO fighting BBA with water control is a total waste of time. That works
for Green algae. It does not work for Red Algae which is fresh water
seaweed. It has to be killed.

I've been patient for 5 years putting up with this BBA and trying every kind
of water condition known to man. The root cause of BBA is bringing a plant
in with BBA on it - period. What, you think the stuff spontaneously
generates? BBA lives under all water conditions that support plants.
That's the problem.

I'm sick of looking at nice tanks infested with BBA. I want a clean tank
again.

Chris.

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:10:07 GMT, "Chris_S" wrote:

I'm cheating? No I've just got better things to do than beat my head
against the wall wasting my time. If you have weeds in your lawn, do you
think you can get rid of them by controlling how much grass fertilizer you
put on? No, you spray them and kill them. When your fish get sick do you
give them medicine? If they get parasites do you kill them with chemicals?
What's the difference?

IMHO fighting BBA with water control is a total waste of time. That works
for Green algae. It does not work for Red Algae which is fresh water
seaweed. It has to be killed.

I've been patient for 5 years putting up with this BBA and trying every kind
of water condition known to man. The root cause of BBA is bringing a plant
in with BBA on it - period. What, you think the stuff spontaneously
generates? BBA lives under all water conditions that support plants.
That's the problem.

I'm sick of looking at nice tanks infested with BBA. I want a clean tank
again.

Chris.


I am surprised that there seems to be so much frustration. I rid my
75 gallon tank about 9 months ago. I didn't use any chemicals. I
don't use co2. I am not sure if any one of my changes was more
important than any other, but the combination did the trick.

Perhaps I have had success has to do with my limited plant selection.
My lights are under 2 wpg and I finally bought only plants that
accept that condition. If those not getting a fix are using high
light and/or co2 maybe that has something to do with the failures.

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:10:07 GMT, "Chris_S" wrote:

I'm cheating? No I've just got better things to do than beat my head
against the wall wasting my time. If you have weeds in your lawn, do you
think you can get rid of them by controlling how much grass fertilizer you
put on? No, you spray them and kill them. When your fish get sick do you
give them medicine? If they get parasites do you kill them with chemicals?
What's the difference?

IMHO fighting BBA with water control is a total waste of time. That works
for Green algae. It does not work for Red Algae which is fresh water
seaweed. It has to be killed.

I've been patient for 5 years putting up with this BBA and trying every kind
of water condition known to man. The root cause of BBA is bringing a plant
in with BBA on it - period. What, you think the stuff spontaneously
generates? BBA lives under all water conditions that support plants.
That's the problem.

I'm sick of looking at nice tanks infested with BBA. I want a clean tank
again.

Chris.


I am surprised that there seems to be so much frustration. I rid my
75 gallon tank about 9 months ago. I didn't use any chemicals. I
don't use co2. I am not sure if any one of my changes was more
important than any other, but the combination did the trick.

Perhaps I have had success has to do with my limited plant selection.
My lights are under 2 wpg and I finally bought only plants that
accept that condition. If those not getting a fix are using high
light and/or co2 maybe that has something to do with the failures.

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:10:07 GMT, "Chris_S" wrote:

I'm cheating? No I've just got better things to do than beat my head
against the wall wasting my time. If you have weeds in your lawn, do you
think you can get rid of them by controlling how much grass fertilizer you
put on? No, you spray them and kill them. When your fish get sick do you
give them medicine? If they get parasites do you kill them with chemicals?
What's the difference?

IMHO fighting BBA with water control is a total waste of time. That works
for Green algae. It does not work for Red Algae which is fresh water
seaweed. It has to be killed.

I've been patient for 5 years putting up with this BBA and trying every kind
of water condition known to man. The root cause of BBA is bringing a plant
in with BBA on it - period. What, you think the stuff spontaneously
generates? BBA lives under all water conditions that support plants.
That's the problem.

I'm sick of looking at nice tanks infested with BBA. I want a clean tank
again.

Chris.


I am surprised that there seems to be so much frustration. I rid my
75 gallon tank about 9 months ago. I didn't use any chemicals. I
don't use co2. I am not sure if any one of my changes was more
important than any other, but the combination did the trick.

Perhaps I have had success has to do with my limited plant selection.
My lights are under 2 wpg and I finally bought only plants that
accept that condition. If those not getting a fix are using high
light and/or co2 maybe that has something to do with the failures.

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:10:07 GMT, "Chris_S" wrote:

I'm cheating? No I've just got better things to do than beat my head
against the wall wasting my time. If you have weeds in your lawn, do you
think you can get rid of them by controlling how much grass fertilizer you
put on? No, you spray them and kill them. When your fish get sick do you
give them medicine? If they get parasites do you kill them with chemicals?
What's the difference?

IMHO fighting BBA with water control is a total waste of time. That works
for Green algae. It does not work for Red Algae which is fresh water
seaweed. It has to be killed.

I've been patient for 5 years putting up with this BBA and trying every kind
of water condition known to man. The root cause of BBA is bringing a plant
in with BBA on it - period. What, you think the stuff spontaneously
generates? BBA lives under all water conditions that support plants.
That's the problem.

I'm sick of looking at nice tanks infested with BBA. I want a clean tank
again.

Chris.


I am surprised that there seems to be so much frustration. I rid my
75 gallon tank about 9 months ago. I didn't use any chemicals. I
don't use co2. I am not sure if any one of my changes was more
important than any other, but the combination did the trick.

Perhaps I have had success has to do with my limited plant selection.
My lights are under 2 wpg and I finally bought only plants that
accept that condition. If those not getting a fix are using high
light and/or co2 maybe that has something to do with the failures.

Perhaps I have had success has to do with my limited plant selection.
My lights are under 2 wpg and I finally bought only plants that
accept that condition. If those not getting a fix are using high
light and/or co2 maybe that has something to do with the failures.

Hey, count yourself lucky. There are around 200 species of fresh water Red
Algae so you may not have the same stuff others have. If you have any doubt
about how nasty and tenacious this stuff can be, just do a search for BBA
ALGAE or look at the following link:

http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/bleach.html

Chris.

Perhaps I have had success has to do with my limited plant selection.
My lights are under 2 wpg and I finally bought only plants that
accept that condition. If those not getting a fix are using high
light and/or co2 maybe that has something to do with the failures.

Hey, count yourself lucky. There are around 200 species of fresh water Red
Algae so you may not have the same stuff others have. If you have any doubt
about how nasty and tenacious this stuff can be, just do a search for BBA
ALGAE or look at the following link:

http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Algae/bleach.html

Chris.

"Chris_S" wrote in message
...
Hi Rick:

Ditto. Glad you can appreciate my position. I am also very grateful for
your feedback. It sounds like bleach is by far the most effective way to
deal with BBA. It has real results. That is the conclusion I have come
to
as well.

I agree with everything you say. And that is why I think it is best to
bleach the whole tank in place, after removing the fish of course. That
way
I kill the spores in the entire system: gravel, filters, pumbling,
everywhere all in one shot.

I have a question for you. What is your feeling about the reinfestation
potential from moving the fish into another clean water temp tank, and
then
moving them back in? Do you feel that is enough to dillute down the BBA
spores from the clean water that minimal will be transported back in when
I
return them? Anything else I can do here to help with the fish move?

I just want to make sure that after all this tank filling and draining the
BBA is truely gone. Like you say, I want every BBA spore dead or out of
the
system.

When you say it never came back, that is really GREAT news. That's the
result I am hoping for.

Thanks, Chris.



I did not have any problem with the algae coming back. To tell you the truth
I never even thought about it perhaps coming back in with the fish although
I did bleach the net I used to take them out of the infected tank. In
response to HappyCampers post it has been over a year for me and it never
came back. I have 35 tanks running right now and every single one of them
has live plants of some sort with two larger one's heavily planted. I deal
with algae on a regular basis and I can handle cleaning glass and bleaching
the odd anubias or other slow growing plant or rock that gets some black
tuffs on it however once you get to the level of frustration I was at and
your at then kill it dead, dead dead and start over. Monitor for any signs
of it returning and it's probably then that if it does come back you may be
able to control it. I agree with others as far as dealing with the root
cause. I'm not even sure why it showed up in one of my tanks and not others.
Good luck with this Chris and obviously we are hoping you never see it again
but if it does come back then another approach may have to be considered.

Rick

The more I read about bleaching the more I hear people raving over its
success. One guy said he had been doing it since 1960. He said his tanks
go 5-10 years with absolutely no BBA problems - ZERO. Nearly everybody says
that when they get a reinfestation it is always due to something they put
into the tank later being lazy and not bleaching it. Or by adding water
from another tank. Their own mistakes.

I am extremely impressed. The reports are far better than I even expected.
Nearly everyone who has done it right says it really does works, they would
highly recommend it to others, and the BBA is deffinetly gone unless you do
something stupid and reintroduce it. One guy said he loves having the tanks
free of BBA because he can run his water anyway he likes and never has to
worry about BBA. He grows plants and forces the nutrients real high for
fast growth.

It is clear that one must treat the procedure seriously just like a
medically sterile operation. You have to think about everything that has
been in the infected tank and sterilize those things too. Nets you rarely
use, pH meters, tongs, tubes, etc. anything that ever touched the old tank
MUST be bleached before it ever goes back in again. The spores can be
anywhere. Quarantining the fish in another tank for a day to flush their
systems seems to be a very good idea as well, especially if they are SAEs.

They also say that most of the plants after bleaching do better than they
ever did before. Free of algae, their leaves can really go to work.
Beautiful leaves.

I'm sold. I'm planning on doing the bleach job next week. Have to get
everything prepared first. I'll repost after its done.

Thanks, Chris.

What about a UV sterilizer???

--
RedForeman ©® future fabricator and creator of a ratbike
streetfighter!!!

==========================
2003 TRX450ES
1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
1987 TRX250R (sold)
1987 CBR600 Hurricane (sold)
1987 VFR700 Interceptor (sold)
1995 TRX300ex (sold)
2000 CBR600F4 silver/red (sold) *sniff*sniff*
'98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
==========================
ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø
"By US Code Title 47, Sec.227(a)(2)(B), a computer/modem/printer
meets the definition of a telephone fax machine. By Sec.227(b)(1)(C),
it is unlawful to send any unsolicited advertisement to such equipment.
By Sec.227(b)(3)(C), a violation of the aforementioned Section is
punishable by action to recover actual monetary loss, or $500,
whichever is greater, for each violation."

If you do send me unsolicited e-mail I will proof-read it at a rate
of $100 per hour (4 hour minimum).

I was reading up on that last night. They say they are very effective on
algae, but it of course needs to be in the water. UV would probably be very
good at preventing expansion of the BBA by killing the spores and gammets
traveling in the water. It would probably kill those outright which in
theory would stop the spread of BBA. But of course it would not do anything
for the stuff already on surfaces in the tank.

UV might be a good way to go for someone who wants to mechanically get rid
of what they can themselves, and then use the UV to kill the spread through
the water.

I'm going with Chlorine. The possibility of getting rid of BBA permanently
is just too attractive to pass up.

Chris.