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Old 07-04-2004, 02:32 AM
Cardman
 
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Default Watering the aquarium plants.

On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 11:09:42 +1000, "Graham Broadbridge"
wrote:

I've had very little success with denitrification filters. About 10 years
ago I tried a sera denitrator and that failed dismally - although that may
have been because I didn't understand the process and my flow rate was probably
too high.

Recently I tried a home brew filter using around 50 metres of tubing, but I
couldn't get the flow rate correct to maintain an anaerobic culture. It just
clogged up.

Best bet to reduce nitrate levels are lots of adequately fertilised plants
and water changes.

Even that has it's challenges :-)


I have been thinking about a better system to reduce Nitrate levels,
when I doubt that anything can work better than a pre-filter.

What I mean is that waste material could be collected and separated
before it could go through the Ammonia to Nitrite to Nitrate cycle.

Hence collect the fish poo and other waste, then it won't break down
into the end product of Nitrate.

Now I am wondering how it is possible to do that beyond very good
filtration and manual cleaning. I guess having easier cleaning would
be a start.

Ideas?

Cardman
http://www.cardman.com
http://www.cardman.co.uk
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Old 07-04-2004, 04:36 AM
Cardman
 
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Default Watering the aquarium plants.

On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 00:13:14 +0100, Cardman
wrote:

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 09:49:36 GMT, "Michi Henning"
wrote:

The canister is rumoured to contribute to nitrate
removal. Apparently, sintered glass contains enough small
pores for some anearobic bacteria to break down nitrates.


I will have to look into that then.


And that I did.

So anaerobic bacteria can be used to create a further step in this
cycle, which will convert Nitrates input to Nitrogen output.

Very nice, but I doubt that a general slow filter is good enough, for
reasons that I will soon explain.

As anaerobic of course means without oxygen, which is why you will
only get these bacteria living where there is no oxygen. And the
common way of doing that is to have other bacteria using up all the
oxygen first.

And that oxygen using bacteria is of course the same one that turns
Nitrites into Nitrates and even this fish poo into Nitrites.

So in order to get your anaerobic bacteria you need a very slow filter
that has time to use up all the oxygen. And the simplest way to do
that is just to use a long (like 20 foot) narrow (like 1/4") flexible
pvc tube with a flow control on one end. Not of course to forget a low
pressure pump in order to get it in there in the first place.

Make sure that the flow is slow enough (1 to 4 gallons an hour is
recommended) by using a simple flow controller (found in most DIY
stores) and some of the tube would contain your oxygen eating
bacteria, while the rest of the tube would contain your anaerobic
bacteria.

From this information we can see that the longer your tube is the
faster the flow rate can be, where no Nitrate reducing results means
to slow down the flow rate or to use a longer tube.

People who have already made their own de-nitrator filter using a 17
and 20 foot tube have reported that 3 mg/l of Nitrates can be turned
into Nitrogen each and every hour.

Or as I just read one person used a 75 foot long tube and recorded a
Nitrate level on the output end of 5ppm less than the normal aquarium
level. Although at just 2 gallons an hour I expect that he should
increase his flow rate.

The only thing to watch out for this that this anaerobic bacteria will
also turn Nitrates back into Nitrites, which means that the output of
this tube should ideally be fed into the input of another filter. So
that these Nitrites can be converted back once more to Nitrates.

So even at my 100 ppm level of Nitrates, then this can be reduced to
very low levels in under 2 days. Naturally, it will take weeks for
your bacteria to just started fully in your tube, but that is one good
method for removing lots of Nitrates.

Kind of good if you want to have lots of fish in your tank, where the
only problem is keeping Nitrate levels high enough for the plants. And
well this de-nitrator tube won't quite remove all of it, when the
water moves so slowly.

Since I plan to use a high speed external cannister type filter on my
larger aquarium at least, then I could attach such a device with the
input as a branch off the output of this external filter. And then the
output from this tube can be linked into the input of this external
filter.

So something that I could certainly get around to, when this would do
a much better Nitrate reduction job than what many plants would.

I am just wondering who sells an already assembled kit with
instructions, when that saves the pain of if you get some aspect
wrong.

Cardman
http://www.cardman.com
http://www.cardman.co.uk
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Old 08-04-2004, 07:03 AM
Graham Broadbridge
 
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Default Watering the aquarium plants.

"Cardman" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 6 Apr 2004 11:09:42 +1000, "Graham Broadbridge"
wrote:

I have been thinking about a better system to reduce Nitrate levels,
when I doubt that anything can work better than a pre-filter.

What I mean is that waste material could be collected and separated
before it could go through the Ammonia to Nitrite to Nitrate cycle.

Hence collect the fish poo and other waste, then it won't break down
into the end product of Nitrate.


Go back to nature :-) Plants are much happier using Ammonia as a food
source rather then Nitrates. Even Ammonium is more easily harvested by
plants than Nitrates. The only reason we use NO3 as fertiliser for
aquariums is that NH3/NH4 is so toxic to fish.

In some well lit and well fertilised tanks, plants use the Ammonia generated
by fish directly, without conversion to nitrates first.

Regards
Graham.






Now I am wondering how it is possible to do that beyond very good
filtration and manual cleaning. I guess having easier cleaning would
be a start.

Ideas?

Cardman
http://www.cardman.com
http://www.cardman.co.uk



  #64   Report Post  
Old 11-04-2004, 05:34 AM
Robert Flory
 
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Default Watering the aquarium plants.


"Cardman" wrote in message
...
SNIP

What I mean is that waste material could be collected and separated
before it could go through the Ammonia to Nitrite to Nitrate cycle.

Hence collect the fish poo and other waste, then it won't break down
into the end product of Nitrate.

Now I am wondering how it is possible to do that beyond very good
filtration and manual cleaning. I guess having easier cleaning would
be a start.

Ideas?

Cardman
http://www.cardman.com
http://www.cardman.co.uk


Try a sump with lots of plants if you don't want plants in the tank. Plants
take up the ammonia directly. That is why most heavily planted tanks are
nitrate limited.
Bob


  #65   Report Post  
Old 11-04-2004, 05:34 AM
Robert Flory
 
Posts: n/a
Default Watering the aquarium plants.

search the APD archives at
http://fins.actwin.com/

bob
"Michi Henning" wrote in message
...
"Graham Broadbridge" wrote in message
u...
"Michi Henning" wrote in message
...

BTW -- you should try to get those nitrate levels down. 100ppm is
definitely on the very high side where it will be toxic for at least

some
fish species. Adding lots more plants will help in reducing nitrate
levels.


At 100 ppm NO3 there is some evidence that plants themselves shut down

at
normal (0.05 - 0.1 ppm) Fe and trace levels.


Ah, I didn't know that, thanks! Do you have any links?

Cheers,

Michi.
--
Michi Henning Ph: +61 4 1118-2700
ZeroC, Inc. http://www.zeroc.com



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