I'm going to try the ecosphere idea again, and I'd like some suggestions, or
corrections if anything written here is a bad idea.

I plan to use an old gallon jar ( 3.8 liters) with a tight-fitting lid, a
cup of pond mud, a cup of used aquarium gravel, about a dozen leaves of
duckweed ( Lemna minor) , a small Hygrophila plant, a small Anacharis plant
, some small bits of algae, some copepods, 3 small snails, and 3 ghost
shrimp. I plan to leave about 1/2 a liter of air in the top when I seal the
jar. The room temperature is a constant 72 to 77 F , and the jar will be
placed next to a west-facing window.

Any species I should add or leave out ?
Anything here sound like a problem ?
Any other ideas ?

Limnophile

Limnophile wrote:

I plan to use an old gallon jar ( 3.8 liters) with a tight-fitting
lid, a cup of pond mud, a cup of used aquarium gravel, about a dozen
leaves of duckweed ( Lemna minor) , a small Hygrophila plant, a small
Anacharis plant , some small bits of algae, some copepods, 3 small
snails, and 3 ghost shrimp. I plan to leave about 1/2 a liter of air
in the top when I seal the jar. The room temperature is a constant 72
to 77 F , and the jar will be placed next to a west-facing window.

In the commercial eco-sphere products, the only plant included is
algae. I wonder if your hygro or anacharis might grow out of control in
your experiment, with nothing there to keep them in check.

Using pond mud should yield some interesting tiny critters - I doubt
you'll need to specifically add copepods, as you'll almost certainly
get some with the mud. The shrimp should find plenty to feed on from
the mud.

Sounds like an interesting experiment. You make me tempted to go give
it a whirl, too, though I fear the look I would get from my wife if I
suggested adding yet another little tank to my collection.



--
www.ericschreiber.com

Sounds like it would be interesting
I have a few old glass whiskey bottles that might work to try the same
My only concern is the gases released from the mud (I am not a chemist)
Would they reduce the amount of O2 required by the critters?
Also I think the ghost shrimp would be unnecessary as the mud should
have more than enough detrivores(?)

Kris


Limnophile wrote:

I'm going to try the ecosphere idea again, and I'd like some suggestions, or
corrections if anything written here is a bad idea.

I plan to use an old gallon jar ( 3.8 liters) with a tight-fitting lid, a
cup of pond mud, a cup of used aquarium gravel, about a dozen leaves of
duckweed ( Lemna minor) , a small Hygrophila plant, a small Anacharis plant
, some small bits of algae, some copepods, 3 small snails, and 3 ghost
shrimp. I plan to leave about 1/2 a liter of air in the top when I seal the
jar. The room temperature is a constant 72 to 77 F , and the jar will be
placed next to a west-facing window.

Any species I should add or leave out ?
Anything here sound like a problem ?
Any other ideas ?

Limnophile

The main thing I want to have is some animals that are large enough to see.
Snails and shrimp seem to be the only candidates for a sealed jar. Fish
would be nice, but I doubt they would live more than a few days. I've
thought about aquatic insects, but none seem to be good candidates. If you
have any suggestions, I'm all ears.

As for having mud on the bottom, I revised the plan. Now I think I will use
only 1/2 inch or so of mud, with about one and a half inches of gravel over
it. The gravel will provide surface area for nitrogen cycle bacteria. The
mud is to provide an anoxic area for the bacteria which change nitrate to
nitrogen gas and oxygen. Anerobic areas usually cause problems when
something organic gets buried, and the decomposition produces sulfur
dioxide. If my jar goes according to plan, the gravel will prevent any large
pieces of organic matter from reaching the bottom. That's the plan anyway
....

I hope your whiskey bottles work out,
Limnophile

"Kris" wrote in message
news:qtTsc.16622$g71.12684@clgrps13...
Sounds like it would be interesting
I have a few old glass whiskey bottles that might work to try the same
My only concern is the gases released from the mud (I am not a chemist)
Would they reduce the amount of O2 required by the critters?
Also I think the ghost shrimp would be unnecessary as the mud should
have more than enough detrivores(?)

Kris


Limnophile wrote:

I'm going to try the ecosphere idea again, and I'd like some
suggestions, or
corrections if anything written here is a bad idea.

I plan to use an old gallon jar ( 3.8 liters) with a tight-fitting lid,
a
cup of pond mud, a cup of used aquarium gravel, about a dozen leaves of
duckweed ( Lemna minor) , a small Hygrophila plant, a small Anacharis
plant
, some small bits of algae, some copepods, 3 small snails, and 3 ghost
shrimp. I plan to leave about 1/2 a liter of air in the top when I seal
the
jar. The room temperature is a constant 72 to 77 F , and the jar will be
placed next to a west-facing window.

Any species I should add or leave out ?
Anything here sound like a problem ?
Any other ideas ?

Limnophile

"Eric Schreiber" eric at ericschreiber dot com wrote in message
...
snip
In the commercial eco-sphere products, the only plant included is
algae. I wonder if your hygro or anacharis might grow out of control in
your experiment, with nothing there to keep them in check.

Good point, I'll have to look into which insects or arthropods will eat the
plants I use.
If you have any ideas for plant / insect combinations I would be grateful.

Using pond mud should yield some interesting tiny critters - I doubt
you'll need to specifically add copepods, as you'll almost certainly
get some with the mud. The shrimp should find plenty to feed on from
the mud.

Sounds like an interesting experiment. You make me tempted to go give
it a whirl, too, though I fear the look I would get from my wife if I
suggested adding yet another little tank to my collection.

My first try was with an old catsup bottle, some plants, and some snails.
The jar you use doesn't have to be big. Maybe you could "accidentally"
"forget" you left a jar with plants in it.....

Limnophile

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I would concern sunlight from a west-facing window which could heat things
up considerably, especially in a air-tight small space.

Cheers
Kenneth

"Limnophile" ¦b¶l¥ó
¤¤¼¶¼g...
I'm going to try the ecosphere idea again, and I'd like some suggestions,
or
corrections if anything written here is a bad idea.

I plan to use an old gallon jar ( 3.8 liters) with a tight-fitting lid, a
cup of pond mud, a cup of used aquarium gravel, about a dozen leaves of
duckweed ( Lemna minor) , a small Hygrophila plant, a small Anacharis
plant
, some small bits of algae, some copepods, 3 small snails, and 3 ghost
shrimp. I plan to leave about 1/2 a liter of air in the top when I seal
the
jar. The room temperature is a constant 72 to 77 F , and the jar will be
placed next to a west-facing window.

Any species I should add or leave out ?
Anything here sound like a problem ?
Any other ideas ?

Limnophile






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The room is air conditioned, 72-76 F , and the jar will be placed next to a
large aquarium. I doubt the temp. will vary much, but I'll keep an eye on
it.
Thanks;
Limnophile

"Kenneth Ho" wrote in message
...
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I would concern sunlight from a west-facing window which could heat things
up considerably, especially in a air-tight small space.

Cheers
Kenneth

"Limnophile" ¦b¶l¥ó
¤¤¼¶¼g...
I'm going to try the ecosphere idea again, and I'd like some
suggestions,
or
corrections if anything written here is a bad idea.

I plan to use an old gallon jar ( 3.8 liters) with a tight-fitting lid,
a
cup of pond mud, a cup of used aquarium gravel, about a dozen leaves of
duckweed ( Lemna minor) , a small Hygrophila plant, a small Anacharis
plant
, some small bits of algae, some copepods, 3 small snails, and 3 ghost
shrimp. I plan to leave about 1/2 a liter of air in the top when I seal
the
jar. The room temperature is a constant 72 to 77 F , and the jar will be
placed next to a west-facing window.

Any species I should add or leave out ?
Anything here sound like a problem ?
Any other ideas ?

Limnophile






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what is the 'ecosphere experiment'?


Mike


"Limnophile" wrote in message
...
I'm going to try the ecosphere idea again, and I'd like some suggestions,
or
corrections if anything written here is a bad idea.

I plan to use an old gallon jar ( 3.8 liters) with a tight-fitting lid, a
cup of pond mud, a cup of used aquarium gravel, about a dozen leaves of
duckweed ( Lemna minor) , a small Hygrophila plant, a small Anacharis
plant
, some small bits of algae, some copepods, 3 small snails, and 3 ghost
shrimp. I plan to leave about 1/2 a liter of air in the top when I seal
the
jar. The room temperature is a constant 72 to 77 F , and the jar will be
placed next to a west-facing window.

Any species I should add or leave out ?
Anything here sound like a problem ?
Any other ideas ?

Limnophile

"Limnophile" wrote in message
...
I'm going to try the ecosphere idea again, and I'd like some suggestions,
or
corrections if anything written here is a bad idea.

I plan to use an old gallon jar ( 3.8 liters) with a tight-fitting lid, a
cup of pond mud, a cup of used aquarium gravel, about a dozen leaves of
duckweed ( Lemna minor) , a small Hygrophila plant, a small Anacharis
plant
, some small bits of algae, some copepods, 3 small snails, and 3 ghost
shrimp. I plan to leave about 1/2 a liter of air in the top when I seal
the
jar. The room temperature is a constant 72 to 77 F , and the jar will be
placed next to a west-facing window.

Any species I should add or leave out ?
Anything here sound like a problem ?
Any other ideas ?

just a few... semi-speculative :-)

maybe gradually reduce circulation/exposure to outside air. and observe for
suffering.

temperature stability will be nothing like stability in the outside world.
otoh, if you chosen 'puddle' species, they're adapted to rapid changes.

http://www.polopoly.com/extra/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=107
"Mike Martin" wrote in message
...
what is the 'ecosphere experiment'?


Mike


"Limnophile" wrote in message
...
I'm going to try the ecosphere idea again, and I'd like some
suggestions,
or
corrections if anything written here is a bad idea.

I plan to use an old gallon jar ( 3.8 liters) with a tight-fitting lid,
a
cup of pond mud, a cup of used aquarium gravel, about a dozen leaves of
duckweed ( Lemna minor) , a small Hygrophila plant, a small Anacharis
plant
, some small bits of algae, some copepods, 3 small snails, and 3 ghost
shrimp. I plan to leave about 1/2 a liter of air in the top when I seal
the
jar. The room temperature is a constant 72 to 77 F , and the jar will be
placed next to a west-facing window.

Any species I should add or leave out ?
Anything here sound like a problem ?
Any other ideas ?

Limnophile

in article , Limnophile at
wrote on 5/25/04 8:14 AM:

I'm going to try the ecosphere idea again, and I'd like some suggestions, or
corrections if anything written here is a bad idea.

I plan to use an old gallon jar ( 3.8 liters) with a tight-fitting lid, a
cup of pond mud, a cup of used aquarium gravel, about a dozen leaves of
duckweed ( Lemna minor) , a small Hygrophila plant, a small Anacharis plant
, some small bits of algae, some copepods, 3 small snails, and 3 ghost
shrimp. I plan to leave about 1/2 a liter of air in the top when I seal the
jar. The room temperature is a constant 72 to 77 F , and the jar will be
placed next to a west-facing window.

Any species I should add or leave out ?
Anything here sound like a problem ?
Any other ideas ?

Limnophile


I worry a bit about the duckweed. In ponds it usually signals a not very
healthy pond ecology. It cuts off light to plants beneath it, I tend to
think it cuts down on the surface area of the water, limiting the exchange
between water and air. Of course the hope is that the plants will free
sufficient O2 to take care of the animals' needs, and the light will come
from the side, not down through the duckweed. Still, if it were me, I'd
skip the duckweed.

That and, I used to take customer service calls regarding a commercially
available ecosphere, and what I learned there was that you want a very light
animal population, compared to the plants.

I also worry a tiny bit about the pond mud. If there is stuff in the mud
that is decaying (and there does tend to be), the decay process will use up
O2, too much decay could suffocate the animals. But I really like the "live
cultures" aspect. So I'm torn. Go lightly on the pond mud.

Please let us know how everything goes.

-Chris


--
Chris

I decided to use a 5 gallon plastic bottle instead of a gallon glass one, to
give more space and margin for error.

The idea of including the mud is to make sure there are enough bacteria and
other decomposers. I will only use a small amount of mud, and leave the jar
open to the air for about a week so anything organic finishes decaying
before I seal it.

As you said, duckweed might be a bad idea. On the other hand, how do I know
for sure until I try it out ? I will only put in a few leaves to start with.
If it causes a big problem, I can dump out the jar and try again...

I'll also include a lot of algae and plants compared to the amount of
animals. I was thinking of putting 5 glass shrimp, 5 small snails, and 1/4
pound of plants and algae in the 3 gallons or so of water. That should be
something like 120 grams of plants to less than 5 grams of animals. 2
gallons will be used by the mud, gravel, and a large air space at the top.

I was also thinking of including 2 grams of marine salt mix, to provide
iodine and other trace elements. The plants and animals should easily be
able to tolerate 1/6 part per thousand of salt, right ?

Thanks for the suggestions. Any other ideas ?

Limnophile

"Chris Oinonen Ehren" wrote in message
...
in article ,
snip
I worry a bit about the duckweed. In ponds it usually signals a not very
healthy pond ecology. It cuts off light to plants beneath it, I tend to
think it cuts down on the surface area of the water, limiting the exchange
between water and air. Of course the hope is that the plants will free
sufficient O2 to take care of the animals' needs, and the light will come
from the side, not down through the duckweed. Still, if it were me, I'd
skip the duckweed.

That and, I used to take customer service calls regarding a commercially
available ecosphere, and what I learned there was that you want a very
light
animal population, compared to the plants.

I also worry a tiny bit about the pond mud. If there is stuff in the mud
that is decaying (and there does tend to be), the decay process will use
up
O2, too much decay could suffocate the animals. But I really like the
"live
cultures" aspect. So I'm torn. Go lightly on the pond mud.

Please let us know how everything goes.

-Chris


--
Chris

Chris Oinonen Ehren wrote:


I worry a bit about the duckweed. In ponds it usually signals a not very
healthy pond ecology. It cuts off light to plants beneath it, I tend to
think it cuts down on the surface area of the water, limiting the exchange
between water and air. Of course the hope is that the plants will free
sufficient O2 to take care of the animals' needs, and the light will come
from the side, not down through the duckweed. Still, if it were me, I'd
skip the duckweed.


Note that in a closed system plants can grow only as far as available
carbon (and other nutrients) allows. This is completly different from
the standard aquarium tank, where food and CO2 from the air would indeed
allow mass propagation.

The question really is which plants and animals can live together in
that little biotope, and it might help to have several species to begin
with. Some will wither, others will grow.

Appart from duck weed, there are some other surface-swimming plants with
nice "roots", like _Riccia fluitans_.

Thanks for your advice;
Limnophile

"Dr Engelbert Buxbaum" wrote in message
...
Chris Oinonen Ehren wrote:

Note that in a closed system plants can grow only as far as available
carbon (and other nutrients) allows. This is completly different from
the standard aquarium tank, where food and CO2 from the air would indeed
allow mass propagation.

The question really is which plants and animals can live together in
that little biotope, and it might help to have several species to begin
with. Some will wither, others will grow.

Appart from duck weed, there are some other surface-swimming plants with
nice "roots", like _Riccia fluitans_.