I just noticed a single branch of staghorn.... yes I pulled it but am
worried it'll show up again. There's also some hair here and there, and some
amano shrimp were said to deal with that. Both will be on order, but I'm
curious to know if anyone here's had good results from FFF and Amano
shrimp....??

--
RedForeman ©® future fabricator and creator of a ratbike
streetfighter!!! ==========================
2003 TRX450ES
1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
'98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
==========================
ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø


is that better??

On Fri, 4 Jun 2004 15:00:29 -0400, "RedForeman ©®"
wrote:

I just noticed a single branch of staghorn.... yes I pulled it but am
worried it'll show up again. There's also some hair here and there, and some
amano shrimp were said to deal with that. Both will be on order, but I'm
curious to know if anyone here's had good results from FFF and Amano
shrimp....??

I've read oodles of testimonials that FFF are the best algae eaters in
the world. I took a few home but couldn't really tell you how they're
doing because my tank has since turned pure green. I've decided to
find it quaint since there's not much to be done about it.

Err.. Speaking of which, has anyone used the Terrapur fert cones and
found their algae picked up?

On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 04:13:36 GMT, Rikko wrote:

On Fri, 4 Jun 2004 15:00:29 -0400, "RedForeman ©®"
wrote:

I just noticed a single branch of staghorn.... yes I pulled it but am
worried it'll show up again. There's also some hair here and there, and some
amano shrimp were said to deal with that. Both will be on order, but I'm
curious to know if anyone here's had good results from FFF and Amano
shrimp....??

I've read oodles of testimonials that FFF are the best algae eaters in
the world. I took a few home but couldn't really tell you how they're
doing because my tank has since turned pure green. I've decided to
find it quaint since there's not much to be done about it.

Err.. Speaking of which, has anyone used the Terrapur fert cones and
found their algae picked up?

I am glad to find out that the FFF and the American Flag fish are the
same fish. I have read about this fish in the past and want to buy
some one day.

Curious, "tank has ...turned pure green." The water, the plants, or
the glass? How much light, what size tank, how many hours and are you
overfeeding? I get a lot of brown algae on one of my 10 gallon tanks.
I keep the front and sides clean by wiping or scraping, but the back
is harder to clean, so I don't. Mostly I have to clean small dots of
green off the tanks glass. So your description doesn't fit any of my
experience.

Good luck. I too look forward to some testimonials about the FFF/AFF.

Nothing eats staghorn algae, it's not very nutrious anyway.
Flagfish are so so. They are native here and I managed to net a few.
They are not the great algae eaters folks tell stories about from what
I have seen. They will pick etc, but relying on algae eaters is not a
good idea for algae control. Some slight tipping of the balance is
about all they are capable of.

Rosy barbs are fierce, but also will shred anything furry looking,
moss,Riccia etc. They are by far the most effective, as long as you
don't have fine needled plants etc.

If you are up on your maintenance, water changes, good CO2, etc, that
will prevent algae from getting worse etc.

All algae is fairly straightword concerning blooms. If you keep good
nutrient levels and CO2 etc, prune routinely, clean, remove dead
leaves etc, you don't even need algae eaters at all.
They are merely icing on the cake.


Regards,
Tom Barr

"RedForeman ©®" wrote in message ...
I just noticed a single branch of staghorn.... yes I pulled it but am
worried it'll show up again. There's also some hair here and there, and some
amano shrimp were said to deal with that. Both will be on order, but I'm
curious to know if anyone here's had good results from FFF and Amano
shrimp....??

--
RedForeman ©® future fabricator and creator of a ratbike
streetfighter!!! ==========================
2003 TRX450ES
1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
'98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
==========================
ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø


is that better??

|| If you are up on your maintenance, water changes, good CO2, etc, that
|| will prevent algae from getting worse etc.

All has been going good, and I think the PMDD needs upping a bit.. I was
only dosing 1x a week, and I think I'll up to 2x a week, it's still
early....

|| All algae is fairly straightword concerning blooms. If you keep good
|| nutrient levels and CO2 etc, prune routinely, clean, remove dead
|| leaves etc, you don't even need algae eaters at all.
|| They are merely icing on the cake.

Good enough... no FFF, up on the ferts... any idea what specifically limits
staghorn? if anything? Is there an abundance of something that staghorn is
liking?

--
RedForeman ©® future fabricator and creator of a ratbike
streetfighter!!! ==========================
2003 TRX450ES
1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
'98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
==========================
ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø


is that better??

"RedForeman ©®" wrote in message ...
|| If you are up on your maintenance, water changes, good CO2, etc, that
|| will prevent algae from getting worse etc.

All has been going good, and I think the PMDD needs upping a bit.. I was
only dosing 1x a week, and I think I'll up to 2x a week, it's still
early....

|| All algae is fairly straightword concerning blooms. If you keep good
|| nutrient levels and CO2 etc, prune routinely, clean, remove dead
|| leaves etc, you don't even need algae eaters at all.
|| They are merely icing on the cake.

Good enough... no FFF, up on the ferts... any idea what specifically limits
staghorn? if anything? Is there an abundance of something that staghorn is
liking?

In my experience, FFF are very good filamentous algae eaters. I
haven't seen a filamentous algae they won't eat - but like pretty much
every fish out there, they will eat flake food instead of algae if
given the opportunity.

Generally, most fish will eat a bit of algae, rotting leaves,
detritus, etc, and so I always keep feedings in my planted tanks to a
minimum (often skipping several days at a time).

Incidentally, I believe (from experience) that the absolute best
solution for a tank that has an algae problem is 5 days of total
darkness (no lights, cover with thick blanket) followed by a 50% water
change. Depending on the kind of algae, you may need to pick at a bit
of the algae that has died and vacuum it out with the big water
change. All of your plants and fish (and corals, if sal****er) will
survive this treatment.

Take care,
Kevin

All has been going good, and I think the PMDD needs upping a bit.. I was
only dosing 1x a week, and I think I'll up to 2x a week, it's still
early....
Good enough... no FFF, up on the ferts... any idea what specifically limits
staghorn? if anything? Is there an abundance of something that staghorn is
liking?

--
RedForeman ©® future fabricator and creator of a ratbike

Red, generally it's not what limits the algae, it's what causes it to
bloom.
Once it blooms, it'll hang on for a long time.

But preventing ther bloom is the first line of defense.
Once it occurs, nuttrients are a non issue except with repsect to the
plants.

In general theere is one "bad" nutrient and one nutrient that causes
many issues. The bad is the NH4.
The cause of many issues is CO2.

The other nutrients are often only promlematic only when there's not
enough CO2 or enough nutrients such as NO3 or PO4 etc.

The main triggers: NH4, temp, variations in CO2(too low for part of
the day or not enough in general).

Other issues, not enough water changes, too much light, too many fish,
not enough routine maintenance sounds simple and in most respect it
is............

Regards,
Tom Barr

On 12 Jun 2004 11:34:06 -0700, (kevin) wrote:

Generally, most fish will eat a bit of algae, rotting leaves,
detritus, etc, and so I always keep feedings in my planted tanks to a
minimum (often skipping several days at a time).

My local school office had a "River Tank" given to it by one of the
teachers going on summer vacation. The administrator told me she had
never fed the two fish. A huge ivy type plant was growing from the
bottom, out of the tank and toward the ceiling. In six months the
administrator had never fed the fish. Light was that coming into the
office from overhead and windows (none direct facing the tank). I
was amazed. The 2 fish had poor color, but were active. I gave her
some flake food, but wonder if I had helped or hurt the fish. I have
other stories of fish going for long periods without being fed, your
"skipping several days" adds to my wondering how much feeding is
really good if fish can get along for lengthy periods without the
food.

When I had black hair algae I noticed my Mollies were pecking at the
shorter growths. I bought Siamese Algae Eaters without noticing that
they can become quite large. The FFF sounds like a good scavenger for
smaller tanks.

dick

|| Red, generally it's not what limits the algae, it's what causes it to
|| bloom.
|| Once it blooms, it'll hang on for a long time.

dosing every other day with pmdd, must be CO2... or too much light....

|| But preventing ther bloom is the first line of defense.
|| Once it occurs, nuttrients are a non issue except with repsect to the
|| plants.
||
|| In general theere is one "bad" nutrient and one nutrient that causes
|| many issues. The bad is the NH4.
|| The cause of many issues is CO2.
||
|| The other nutrients are often only promlematic only when there's not
|| enough CO2 or enough nutrients such as NO3 or PO4 etc.
||
|| The main triggers: NH4, temp, variations in CO2(too low for part of
|| the day or not enough in general).
||
|| Other issues, not enough water changes, too much light, too many
|| fish, not enough routine maintenance sounds simple and in most
|| respect it is............
||
|| Regards,
|| Tom Barr

water changed once a week, and CO2 levels nearing 30ppm.... must be too much
light...or too intense of light....
--
RedForeman ©® future fabricator and creator of a ratbike
streetfighter!!! ==========================
2003 TRX450ES
1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
'98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
==========================
ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø


is that better??

"RedForeman ©®" wrote in message ...
|| Red, generally it's not what limits the algae, it's what causes it to
|| bloom.
|| Once it blooms, it'll hang on for a long time.

dosing every other day with pmdd, must be CO2... or too much light....

Naw, something you did in the recent past. Once it blooms, even good
conditions will not always be enough to get rid of it.

Therefore going in and attacking algae manually AND doing water
changes/maintaining relatively constant adequate nutrient levels will
take care of the rest.Adding lots of plants/algae eaters etc will also
help.

Doing all of these really can turn the ugliest tank around in about
1-2 weeks and have it doing well in 3 weeks.

|| Other issues, not enough water changes, too much light, too many
|| fish, not enough routine maintenance sounds simple and in most
|| respect it is............
||
|| Regards,
|| Tom Barr

water changed once a week, and CO2 levels nearing 30ppm.... must be too much
light...or too intense of light....

No, not likely. At 30ppm of cO2, that is the __max__ amount of CO2
subermsed aquatic plants will ever need at any light intensity that
occurs in nature.

Most higher light aquatic submersed plants max out on light at 30%
full tropical noon day sun.

More light/CO2 will not grow them any faster. Algae might be another
story.

You can also do light vacuuming and fluffing the plants and leaves
good, this will help remove any dead material and excess mulm 2x a
week instead of weekly water changes.

Then when things settle down, go back to weekly changes.
You can also mega dose PO4/NO3 24 hours or less before the water
change.Basically you add 2-3x the normal amount.
Then the water change removes it all after the plants have loaded up.

Regards,
Tom Barr

|| Then when things settle down, go back to weekly changes.
|| You can also mega dose PO4/NO3 24 hours or less before the water
|| change.Basically you add 2-3x the normal amount.
|| Then the water change removes it all after the plants have loaded up.
||
|| Regards,
|| Tom Barr

That idea right there is a good one.. load the plants up, take it back
out... starve the algae... in essense....right?

--
RedForeman ©® future fabricator and creator of a ratbike
streetfighter!!! ==========================
2003 TRX450ES
1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
'98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
==========================
ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø


is that better??