idiot query re. plants and lighting...
I wonder if anyone can help me with a (very stupid, I think) query regarding artificial lighting and plants. Everything I read on the net tells me that planted tanks need artificial light. What I would like to know is why? If I have a tank in a position with bright natural light - a position where houseplants would do well - and some direct sunlight though not too much - why isn't this suitable for low light aquatic plants? (I have a couple of rosette-y things growing in a tank at the moment with no artificial light and they seem fine. they're not growing fast but they are growing - nice new leaves (coming out red when they appear) - and I can't see any real problems with them. I can see that high-light plants would require something close to the brightness of unfiltered sunlight, but for my situation, I'm puzzled as to the reasons for the additional lighting - and why isn't this actually counterproductive for plants which like low light which are already in a brightish position? does the requirement for artificial light assume that the tank is kept in a low-light area? I would be very grateful for any clarification at all... -- sophie puzzled idiot. |
idiot query re. plants and lighting...
|| I wonder if anyone can help me with a (very stupid, I think) query
|| regarding artificial lighting and plants. Everything I read on the || net tells me that planted tanks need artificial light. What I would || like to know is why? If I have a tank in a position with bright || natural light - a position where houseplants would do well - and || some direct sunlight though not too much - why isn't this suitable || for low light aquatic plants? (I have a couple of rosette-y things || growing in a tank at the moment with no artificial light and they || seem fine. they're not growing fast but they are growing - nice new || leaves (coming out red when they appear) - and I can't see any real || problems with them. I can see that high-light plants would require || something close to the brightness of unfiltered sunlight, but for my || situation, I'm puzzled as to the reasons for the additional lighting || - and why isn't this actually counterproductive for plants which || like low light which are already in a brightish position? || || does the requirement for artificial light assume that the tank is || kept in a low-light area? || || I would be very grateful for any clarification at all... || -- || sophie || puzzled idiot. IIRC, Sunlight is nearly 20,000k, or kelvins, a rating for light's 'power' or 'strength' Most freshwater tanks/plants, grow great with that much light.. but what also grows wonderfully with that much light is algae.... You would need to outcompete the algae just to be able to see your plants, in your setup. To do that, you'd need high outputs of CO2, and fertilizers.... and it's a risky thing, because the sun can be here today, and cloud covered for a week.... So the need for lights in the tank are two fold. To give the plant adequate exposure to light, and the control-ability to keep it from getting too out of hand. Since you are so 'new' to the hobby... Consider this. Start out with the smallest, most basic setup. Regular light strip with whatever sized tank you have... Use that, with some low light plants, and they'll grow slow, but will do fine... Add more light, you'll need to start adding more something else, like CO2, or ferts... Eventually, when you get to a WattsPerGallon nearing 2WPG, you'll see more algae, because there's enough light that algae will outcompete your plants... It gets less and more confusing as you go.... just don't expect to rule the hobby anytime soon... even the experts, are learning on a daily basis... and I'm so far from an expert, I feel bad posting to some questions, cuz I'm never 100% sure about my accuracy.... I'm just glad this is a great bunch of ppl and someone will correct me where and when I'm wrong... -- | RedForeman ©® fabricator and creator of the ratbike streetfighter!!! | ========================== | 2003 TRX450ES | 1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale) | '98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted.... | ========================== | ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø || ((((º`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.¸. ((((º ·´¯`·. , .·´¯`·.. ((((º is that better?? |
idiot query re. plants and lighting...
In message , RedForeman ©®
writes || I wonder if anyone can help me with a (very stupid, I think) query || regarding artificial lighting and plants. Everything I read on the || net tells me that planted tanks need artificial light. What I would || like to know is why? If I have a tank in a position with bright || natural light - a position where houseplants would do well - and || some direct sunlight though not too much - why isn't this suitable || for low light aquatic plants? (I have a couple of rosette-y things || growing in a tank at the moment with no artificial light and they || seem fine. they're not growing fast but they are growing - nice new || leaves (coming out red when they appear) - and I can't see any real || problems with them. I can see that high-light plants would require || something close to the brightness of unfiltered sunlight, but for my || situation, I'm puzzled as to the reasons for the additional lighting || - and why isn't this actually counterproductive for plants which || like low light which are already in a brightish position? || || does the requirement for artificial light assume that the tank is || kept in a low-light area? || || I would be very grateful for any clarification at all... || -- || sophie || puzzled idiot. IIRC, Sunlight is nearly 20,000k, or kelvins, a rating for light's 'power' or 'strength' Most freshwater tanks/plants, grow great with that much light.. but what also grows wonderfully with that much light is algae.... You would need to outcompete the algae just to be able to see your plants, in your setup. To do that, you'd need high outputs of CO2, and fertilizers.... and it's a risky thing, because the sun can be here today, and cloud covered for a week.... So the need for lights in the tank are two fold. To give the plant adequate exposure to light, and the control-ability to keep it from getting too out of hand. Since you are so 'new' to the hobby... Consider this. Start out with the smallest, most basic setup. that's kind of what I'm hoping for; the least technical set-up possible! I wanted to understand the necessity for artificial light and whether it is still necessary when the tank has good natural light. I am very new, as you say and I want to make sure that anything I set up is viable. What I want to avoid is a set-up where I need to add CO2 and fertiliser (I'm hoping the fish will do the second bit at the least!) So far I have plants but no algae - but this has been over four months in spring/early summer, which is hardly a definitive result. I think if I want to do it this way it will be the winter that is the real test - that will be when the lack of light becomes a problem, if I understand you correctly? -- sophie |
idiot query re. plants and lighting...
|| In message , RedForeman ©®
||||| I wonder if anyone can help me with a (very stupid, I think) query ||||| regarding artificial lighting and plants. Everything I read on the ||||| net tells me that planted tanks need artificial light. What I ||||| would like to know is why? If I have a tank in a position with ||||| bright natural light - a position where houseplants would do well ||||| - and some direct sunlight though not too much - why isn't this ||||| suitable for low light aquatic plants? (I have a couple of ||||| rosette-y things growing in a tank at the moment with no ||||| artificial light and they seem fine. they're not growing fast but ||||| they are growing - nice new leaves (coming out red when they ||||| appear) - and I can't see any real problems with them. I can see ||||| that high-light plants would require something close to the ||||| brightness of unfiltered sunlight, but for my situation, I'm ||||| puzzled as to the reasons for the additional lighting - and why ||||| isn't this actually counterproductive for plants which like low ||||| light which are already in a brightish position? ||||| ||||| does the requirement for artificial light assume that the tank is ||||| kept in a low-light area? ||||| ||||| I would be very grateful for any clarification at all... ||||| -- ||||| sophie ||||| puzzled idiot. ||| ||| IIRC, Sunlight is nearly 20,000k, or kelvins, a rating for light's ||| 'power' or 'strength' Most freshwater tanks/plants, grow great ||| with that much light.. but what also grows wonderfully with that ||| much light is algae.... You would need to outcompete the algae just ||| to be able to see your plants, in your setup. To do that, you'd ||| need high outputs of CO2, and fertilizers.... and it's a risky ||| thing, because the sun can be here today, and cloud covered for a ||| week.... So the need for lights in the tank are two fold. To give ||| the plant adequate exposure to light, and the control-ability to ||| keep it from getting too out of hand. ||| ||| Since you are so 'new' to the hobby... Consider this. Start out ||| with the smallest, most basic setup. || || that's kind of what I'm hoping for; the least technical set-up || possible! I wanted to understand the necessity for artificial light || and whether it is still necessary when the tank has good natural || light. I am very new, as you say and I want to make sure that || anything I set up is viable. What I want to avoid is a set-up where || I need to add CO2 and fertiliser (I'm hoping the fish will do the || second bit at the least!) So far I have plants but no algae - but || this has been over four months in spring/early summer, which is || hardly a definitive result. I think if I want to do it this way it || will be the winter that is the real test - that will be when the || lack of light becomes a problem, if I understand you correctly? -- || sophie From what I gather so far, you've got the tank setup, with a couple plants, but no artificial light. The only light being supplied is from a direct sunlight, tank facing a window type setup, correct? If this is true, you'll probably not have 'too many' problems... what algae you 'will' get can be scraped off the glass, or vacuumed out... The only real problem lies when the fish get bigger, or more plentiful, and waste more, which will in turn, raise your nitrAte and then you'll get more/some algae.... water changes may be your best defense against algae... in your current setup... and I should say, 'least technical' is relative to what you think least and technical actually mean... IMO, technical is sal****er... freshwater is so forgiving versus sal****er setups... I can't go too far out on a limb and say your setup will work in the long run.. eventually, you'll hit that equilibrium of balance, and something will shift it into a problem.... then considering your setup, you may have to move it away from the direct light because of algae, and with that kind of intense light source, it won't take but 24hrs to send it spiraling toward unpleasant.... I'd opt for a strip light, bare minimum to your tank and experiment with low light plants.... until you research and learn more about the details.. after that, it's easier to understand that balance you're looking for... -- | RedForeman ©® fabricator and creator of the ratbike streetfighter!!! | ========================== | 2003 TRX450ES | 1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale) | '98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted.... | ========================== | ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø || ((((º`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.¸. ((((º ·´¯`·. , .·´¯`·.. ((((º is that better?? |
idiot query re. plants and lighting...
On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 10:09:17 -0400, "RedForeman ©®"
bubbled forth the following: IIRC, Sunlight is nearly 20,000k, or kelvins, a rating for light's 'power' or 'strength' Kelvins, or color temperature, refers to the color of light, not the power or strength. morning and evening sun averages 2500-3000 kelvins, noon sun 5400-6000K Strangely enough, the color temperature of average summer shade is rather blue, about 8,000K. Midday skylight (no direct sun) can range from 9,500K to 30,000K. Google on color temperature of sunlight for more info than you ever wanted. Otherwise great points Red. IME, direct sunlight, even just an hour in the early morning *always* led to opaque green glass in just a few days (at least with unplanted tanks, haven't tried with a fully planted tank). Direct sunlight can also heat up a smaller tank more than you may want. HTH Jerry |
idiot query re. plants and lighting...
In message , RedForeman ©®
writes || In message , RedForeman ©® ||||| I wonder if anyone can help me with a (very stupid, I think) query ||||| regarding artificial lighting and plants. Everything I read on the ||||| net tells me that planted tanks need artificial light. What I ||||| would like to know is why? If I have a tank in a position with ||||| bright natural light - a position where houseplants would do well ||||| - and some direct sunlight though not too much - why isn't this ||||| suitable for low light aquatic plants? (I have a couple of ||||| rosette-y things growing in a tank at the moment with no ||||| artificial light and they seem fine. they're not growing fast but ||||| they are growing - nice new leaves (coming out red when they ||||| appear) - and I can't see any real problems with them. I can see ||||| that high-light plants would require something close to the ||||| brightness of unfiltered sunlight, but for my situation, I'm ||||| puzzled as to the reasons for the additional lighting - and why ||||| isn't this actually counterproductive for plants which like low ||||| light which are already in a brightish position? ||||| ||||| does the requirement for artificial light assume that the tank is ||||| kept in a low-light area? ||||| ||||| I would be very grateful for any clarification at all... ||||| -- ||||| sophie ||||| puzzled idiot. ||| ||| IIRC, Sunlight is nearly 20,000k, or kelvins, a rating for light's ||| 'power' or 'strength' Most freshwater tanks/plants, grow great ||| with that much light.. but what also grows wonderfully with that ||| much light is algae.... You would need to outcompete the algae just ||| to be able to see your plants, in your setup. To do that, you'd ||| need high outputs of CO2, and fertilizers.... and it's a risky ||| thing, because the sun can be here today, and cloud covered for a ||| week.... So the need for lights in the tank are two fold. To give ||| the plant adequate exposure to light, and the control-ability to ||| keep it from getting too out of hand. ||| ||| Since you are so 'new' to the hobby... Consider this. Start out ||| with the smallest, most basic setup. || || that's kind of what I'm hoping for; the least technical set-up || possible! I wanted to understand the necessity for artificial light || and whether it is still necessary when the tank has good natural || light. I am very new, as you say and I want to make sure that || anything I set up is viable. What I want to avoid is a set-up where || I need to add CO2 and fertiliser (I'm hoping the fish will do the || second bit at the least!) So far I have plants but no algae - but || this has been over four months in spring/early summer, which is || hardly a definitive result. I think if I want to do it this way it || will be the winter that is the real test - that will be when the || lack of light becomes a problem, if I understand you correctly? -- || sophie From what I gather so far, you've got the tank setup, with a couple plants, but no artificial light. The only light being supplied is from a direct sunlight, tank facing a window type setup, correct? Not quite, I didn't want to put it in or facing the window as I thought that (a) the tank would heat up horribly (and horribly quickly) on hot and sunny days, and (b) because I thought it would probably go green very quickly. If you think of an L shape, the window is in the long side and the tank is in the shorter side, the corner being empty. What happens is that for a few hours in the morning the sun shines in at an angle, lighting up the tank - it's never entirely lit; what happens is that three or four rays move slowly across the tank. It's actually a very nice effect and one of the reasons I don't want to put lights in; I like the tank being as "natural" as possible, and the shifting light is part of that... thanks very much for your help, though; I'm starting to understand the whole thing a little better. I'm going to persist without the light for a while - I think in the end I would rather have the kind of light quality I have now and no plants, if that's what it boils down to, than a strip light and plants. I can satisfy my gardening urges on terrestrial plants if necessary - I also want to add weather loaches, and I think getting to attached to aquatic gardening would be a big mistake under those circumstances! g. many thanks again, I appreciate your help, -- sophie |
idiot query re. plants and lighting...
In message , The Outcaste
writes On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 10:09:17 -0400, "RedForeman ©®" bubbled forth the following: IIRC, Sunlight is nearly 20,000k, or kelvins, a rating for light's 'power' or 'strength' Kelvins, or color temperature, refers to the color of light, not the power or strength. morning and evening sun averages 2500-3000 kelvins, noon sun 5400-6000K Strangely enough, the color temperature of average summer shade is rather blue, about 8,000K. Midday skylight (no direct sun) can range from 9,500K to 30,000K. Google on color temperature of sunlight for more info than you ever wanted. aaargh, physics! how can one unit (kelvin) refer to a temperature scale AND the colour temperature of light? Otherwise great points Red. IME, direct sunlight, even just an hour in the early morning *always* led to opaque green glass in just a few days (at least with unplanted tanks, haven't tried with a fully planted tank). Direct sunlight can also heat up a smaller tank more than you may want. I think I bodged my initial explanation of the tank's position (see my post to Red), for which I apologise. but so far I have no algae at all. thanks for your (incredibly erudite!) advice, I think I'm starting to get the picture... -- sophie |
idiot query re. plants and lighting...
On 24 Jun 2004, the world was enlightened by sophie's opinion about...
In message , The Outcaste writes On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 10:09:17 -0400, "RedForeman ©®" bubbled forth the following: IIRC, Sunlight is nearly 20,000k, or kelvins, a rating for light's 'power' or 'strength' Kelvins, or color temperature, refers to the color of light, not the power or strength. morning and evening sun averages 2500-3000 kelvins, noon sun 5400-6000K Strangely enough, the color temperature of average summer shade is rather blue, about 8,000K. Midday skylight (no direct sun) can range from 9,500K to 30,000K. Google on color temperature of sunlight for more info than you ever wanted. aaargh, physics! how can one unit (kelvin) refer to a temperature scale AND the colour temperature of light? snip Here's a quick explanation: http://www.csun.edu/~hchum001/bookca...96/kelvin.html kev -- Civilization. An organized system of alternatives to the stone age - CJCherryh |
idiot query re. plants and lighting...
On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 11:40:23 +0100, sophie
bubbled forth the following: aaargh, physics! how can one unit (kelvin) refer to a temperature scale AND the colour temperature of light? The color temperature of light is derived from the temperature to which you would have to heat a blackbody radiator to make it glow the same color. The output from a blackbody radiator is continuous across the visible spectrum. On the other hand, most (if not all) fluorescent tubes emit an interrupted spectrum, so this means you can't accurately define a fluorescent light as having a Kelvin color, it only approximates it. This is where the Color Rendition Index comes in. As long as your setup is working just fine, no need to add any lights, just sit back and enjoy. Jerry |
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