Recently, I inherited a 15 or 20 gal. tank that has an under gravel
filtration system. Does this system pose any threat to plants needing
to be fixed in the substrate? I just have this idea that there could
be too much pull for the roots to handle.

Many thanks,

Paul

|| Recently, I inherited a 15 or 20 gal. tank that has an under gravel
|| filtration system. Does this system pose any threat to plants needing
|| to be fixed in the substrate? I just have this idea that there could
|| be too much pull for the roots to handle.
||
|| Many thanks,
||
|| Paul

The general concensus on UGFs is that they only accumulate pollution under
the filter plates, and will inevitably have to be broken down once a year
for thorough cleaning. For plants, most plant ppl will say, that if you
have to move a plant, that is rooted into the UGF, it sucks... I started out
with UGFs, my tank crashed from a buildup of toxins under the plate... When
I moved a plant, it opened the plates up and the tank became toxic, strange
case, but since then, I've ditched the UGF and spent good money on good
filters, and haven't looked back since....

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Xref: 127.0.0.1 rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants:80672

That having been said, do you think that I can switch over to the other filter
type w/o removing the filter plates, or should I break down the whole aquarium,
remove the filter plates, and start from scratch?

Thanks,
Paul

The general concensus on UGFs is that they only accumulate pollution under
the filter plates, and will inevitably have to be broken down once a year
for thorough cleaning. For plants, most plant ppl will say, that if you
have to move a plant, that is rooted into the UGF, it sucks... I started out
with UGFs, my tank crashed from a buildup of toxins under the plate... When
I moved a plant, it opened the plates up and the tank became toxic, strange
case, but since then, I've ditched the UGF and spent good money on good
filters, and haven't looked back since....


Paul Wright

I have some experience with UGFs.... My experience being that if you
use them as described by their manufacturers... with powerheads or air
bubbles moving water UP the tubes.... yes, the gravel gets packed
with waste (especially if one doesn't gravel vac often enough) and may
eventually pollute the tank... even with proper gravel vaccuming,
because the vac can't access beneath the plate to get accumulated
detritus. However, I consider UGFs to be superior if used in a
reverse-flow type of situation.... with water being pre-filtered and
forcibly pushed down the tube & up through the filter plates via the
output of a powerhead or the output of a canister filter. For what
it's worth.... I'm having great success with my UGF.... I've set it
up a bit differently though, I have the plate covered and surrounded
on the side by a thick, felt-like polyester pad, to keep even the most
miniscule particles from falling below the plate, and I have a Fluval
304 canister filter pushing water down the tube... (with a small
outlet valve branching off the main tube at the water's surface to
provide some water movement). My plants have never been happier, even
with the UGF. My opinion is that plants do well in a reverse-flow
setup because the have a constant supply of warm, nutrient-filled
water seeping up around the roots. This promotes a higher amount of
beneficial bacteria and it keeps the gravel from forming "dead spots"
where detrimental anaerobic bacteria can live. This particular tank
has only been set up for a couple months at this point, and time will
tell if this method is better in my situation. Some folks are
dead-set against planted tanks with UGFs. I forsee no drawbacks
though. Either way you go, you still can't go wrong with a good
canister filter and regular gravel-vacuuming.

|| I have some experience with UGFs.... My experience being that if you
|| use them as described by their manufacturers... with powerheads or
|| air bubbles moving water UP the tubes.... yes, the gravel gets
|| packed with waste (especially if one doesn't gravel vac often
|| enough) and may eventually pollute the tank... even with proper
|| gravel vaccuming, because the vac can't access beneath the plate to
|| get accumulated detritus. However, I consider UGFs to be superior
|| if used in a reverse-flow type of situation.... with water being
|| pre-filtered and forcibly pushed down the tube & up through the
|| filter plates via the output of a powerhead or the output of a
|| canister filter. For what it's worth.... I'm having great success
|| with my UGF.... I've set it up a bit differently though, I have
|| the plate covered and surrounded on the side by a thick, felt-like
|| polyester pad, to keep even the most miniscule particles from
|| falling below the plate, and I have a Fluval 304 canister filter
|| pushing water down the tube... (with a small outlet valve branching
|| off the main tube at the water's surface to provide some water
|| movement). My plants have never been happier, even with the UGF.
|| My opinion is that plants do well in a reverse-flow setup because
|| the have a constant supply of warm, nutrient-filled water seeping up
|| around the roots. This promotes a higher amount of beneficial
|| bacteria and it keeps the gravel from forming "dead spots" where
|| detrimental anaerobic bacteria can live. This particular tank has
|| only been set up for a couple months at this point, and time will
|| tell if this method is better in my situation. Some folks are
|| dead-set against planted tanks with UGFs. I forsee no drawbacks
|| though. Either way you go, you still can't go wrong with a good
|| canister filter and regular gravel-vacuuming.

DWF has a great setup, the main positive is that the UGF won't become the
nitrAte factory that regular UGFs become....

--
| RedForeman ©® fabricator and creator of the ratbike streetfighter!!!
| ==========================
| 2003 TRX450ES
| 1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
| '98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
| ==========================
| ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø
| ((((º`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.¸. ((((º ·´¯`·. , .·´¯`·.. ((((º
| for any questions you may have....
| www.gmail.com

Ok...two questions. First, to repeat what I asked before, would it be
ok to leave the filter plates in if I switched to the other filter
type, or would that still be an invitation to pollution? Second, how
much does a canister filter cost? I've already sunk a lot of money in
my other aquarium to make it plant-friendly. :-) Can't afford
anything costly right now. But yeah, DWF, that sounds like an
excellent setup. Thanks!

Paul




(Dances With Ferrets) wrote in message . com...
I have some experience with UGFs.... My experience being that if you
use them as described by their manufacturers... with powerheads or air
bubbles moving water UP the tubes.... yes, the gravel gets packed
with waste (especially if one doesn't gravel vac often enough) and may
eventually pollute the tank... even with proper gravel vaccuming,
because the vac can't access beneath the plate to get accumulated
detritus. However, I consider UGFs to be superior if used in a
reverse-flow type of situation.... with water being pre-filtered and
forcibly pushed down the tube & up through the filter plates via the
output of a powerhead or the output of a canister filter. For what
it's worth.... I'm having great success with my UGF.... I've set it
up a bit differently though, I have the plate covered and surrounded
on the side by a thick, felt-like polyester pad, to keep even the most
miniscule particles from falling below the plate, and I have a Fluval
304 canister filter pushing water down the tube... (with a small
outlet valve branching off the main tube at the water's surface to
provide some water movement). My plants have never been happier, even
with the UGF. My opinion is that plants do well in a reverse-flow
setup because the have a constant supply of warm, nutrient-filled
water seeping up around the roots. This promotes a higher amount of
beneficial bacteria and it keeps the gravel from forming "dead spots"
where detrimental anaerobic bacteria can live. This particular tank
has only been set up for a couple months at this point, and time will
tell if this method is better in my situation. Some folks are
dead-set against planted tanks with UGFs. I forsee no drawbacks
though. Either way you go, you still can't go wrong with a good
canister filter and regular gravel-vacuuming.

(Paul Wright) wrote in message om...
Ok...two questions. First, to repeat what I asked before, would it be
ok to leave the filter plates in if I switched to the other filter
type, or would that still be an invitation to pollution? Second, how
much does a canister filter cost? I've already sunk a lot of money in
my other aquarium to make it plant-friendly. :-) Can't afford
anything costly right now. But yeah, DWF, that sounds like an
excellent setup. Thanks!

Paul



Not having known what may have accumulated under the plates by
now, I'd go the "better-safe-than-sorry" route... a complete
disassemblage of the tank's gravel bed.... a fresh start to insure
that you're not going to invite a pollution issue as you stated.
Canister filters are much cheaper than a typical LFS if purchased
online.... I got my Fluval 304 brand new off Ebay for $65 plus S&H,
which is a steal by comparison to what I've seen them retail for....
you can get a used one even cheaper if you're a patient bidder and are
willing to take the risk that the product may have been abused.
Alternately, http://www.petsolutions.com has really good deals on
canister filters, generic ones being even cheaper than the Fluvals
(although I have no experience with these, so I've no clue how good
they are). Good luck to you.

|| Ok...two questions. First, to repeat what I asked before, would it be
|| ok to leave the filter plates in if I switched to the other filter
|| type, or would that still be an invitation to pollution? Second, how
|| much does a canister filter cost? I've already sunk a lot of money in
|| my other aquarium to make it plant-friendly. :-) Can't afford
|| anything costly right now. But yeah, DWF, that sounds like an
|| excellent setup. Thanks!
||
|| Paul

I answered your question in the first line of my reply....

"The general concensus on UGFs is that they only accumulate pollution "

--
| RedForeman ©® fabricator and creator of the ratbike streetfighter!!!
| ==========================
| 2003 TRX450ES
| 1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
| '98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
| ==========================
| ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø
| ((((º`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.¸. ((((º ·´¯`·. , .·´¯`·.. ((((º
| for any questions you may have....
| www.gmail.com

I answered your question in the first line of my reply....

"The general concensus on UGFs is that they only accumulate pollution "


Point taken, Red. :-) Thanks. Looks like I got a chore to do. Was wanting to
avoid all of that mess, especially since I set it up only a couple of weeks
ago.


Paul Wright

On 27 Jul 2004 03:08:52 GMT, OSPAM (Paul Wright)
wrote:

I answered your question in the first line of my reply....

"The general concensus on UGFs is that they only accumulate pollution "


Point taken, Red. :-) Thanks. Looks like I got a chore to do. Was wanting to
avoid all of that mess, especially since I set it up only a couple of weeks
ago.


Paul Wright



If it's only been set up two or three weeks, how much could have
accumulated. You can get some out just by syphoning out through the
uptake hose. I would think that any accumulation would still be in
the gravel.

I recently visited what I consider to be the best aquarium store in
this area, and noticed rows of tanks running nothing but UGFs.
Overstocked tanks, no plants. Maybe "highly stocked" would be a
better term, typical of a store with a lot to sell.


--

- Charles
-
-does not play well with others

|| Point taken, Red. :-) Thanks. Looks like I got a chore to do. Was
|| wanting to avoid all of that mess, especially since I set it up only
|| a couple of weeks ago.

Since it's only been a couple weeks, you won't have to rush out and do it
before a disaster takes place... but my 'learning' was after a year or so,
my 29g planted tank with UGFs, the plants needed moving because of growth...
big job, I did it in two days... pulled plants, and the next morning, half
my peacocks were dead.... seems that when the UGFs were working, they'd
accumulated tons 'o' crap... but when I disturbed them, I'd released some
toxins, and the wet pets paid the ultimate beginner lesson.... I've set up
several tanks since, NO UGFs for me...

--
| RedForeman ©® fabricator and creator of the ratbike streetfighter!!!
| ==========================
| 2003 TRX450ES
| 1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
| '98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
| ==========================
| ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø
| ((((º`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.¸. ((((º ·´¯`·. , .·´¯`·.. ((((º
| for any questions you may have....
| www.gmail.com